Denon question please

[jmorgan32]

I am a "minimalist" and therefore want "fewer boxes." ie I bought a Denon stereo receiver very recently (the model number skips me) for $499.00 retail. It is rated at 100 watts per and is a very ncely designed piece in my opinion.

Being new to this audio "thing", of course, I have now learned that for 2 channel (that's me) almost all folks would much prefer separate components.

My question is this=========== Why on the Denon website do I see that they only offer 1 integrated stereo amp and 1 tuner, BUT it has worse specs than my receiver? The integrated amp sells for $1200.00 and again, my receiver was 500.

eg......the watts on the integrated is 80 x 2. my receiver is 100 x 2. I also noticed the total harmonic distortion is HIGHER in the integrated.

Does any of this make sense? Last question..............................For those of you who can drill this down "to dummy level" for me................i have to believe for them to be able to sell the integrated for 1200 and the receiver is only 500 the integrated must sound better.

Yes, no?? (you know the stuff i am hearing/reading ie..........separates have less stuff jammed into the box hence better clearer sound.)

Thanks in advance.

Joe

[jmorgan32]

ps............SORRY for the confusion. I tried to delete the above post but I guess that is not an available option on this forum.

Upon further review (not football replay - the 2 units described above) the integrated has .07 THD, and my receiver has .08.

My receiver DOES IN FACT have 100 x 2 versus the amp @ 80 x 2, but I also noticed the integrated amp weighs 52 pounds (over twice as much as my receiver!) so it must just have "better stuff" inside.

Thanks.

[wuzzzer]

Manufacturer's rated wattage has to be taken with a grain of salt. You hit the nail on the head when you noticed the difference in weight.

The 2 channel receiver probably has a much higher output before it starts clipping, might be able to drive low impedences much easier and have much more headroom for dynamics.

Welcome to the wonderful world that is audio. []

[jmorgan32]

Thanks. I am learning slowly but surely.

Joe

[DrPyro]

As Mark (and some women) have suggested, its not the size, weight or power that really matters its the quality of the power that can be delivered. Also, the 2-channel integrated likely have significantly better DACs (if they accept digital) and other factors. However, it is likely that the integrated also sells signficantly fewer unites, thus the cost of development is higher per unit. And lastly, dedicated 2-channel fans are more likely to pay more for a "quality" 2-channel product versus the "general" consumer. All of this goes to the increase in MSRP between the reciever and integrated units.

-Dave

[SET12]

Thanks. I am learning slowly but surely.

Joe

Joe,

You asked a very legitimate question! And as Dave has pointed out its not size, weight or power. You will find the topic very highly debuted on this forum.

You will also find that many use Vacuum tubes as well which typically always have higher distortion but for most tube lovers its typically not really to relevent! it might be interesting to note that I once read that 60% of the high-end market is tube gear!

As far as "minimalist" that comes in many forms. Take for example your reciever, it has many switchs and much wire not to mention an easy 1/2 dozen or more gainstages in series with one another all can degrade the signal.

I am about as "minimalist" as one can get! I use no preamp just a CD direct into my power amp with volume level controled by my variable out on my player the power amp has just 2 gainstages and the technology goes back to the 1930's producing just 10 watts but using its power before audiable clipping it can easyly reckon with most any 100 watt AV or two-channel integrated amplifiers watt for watt and yes I can play loud! as it is my feeling along with others here that power is corruption!

Seperates help but not always and their are many integrateds, and seperates that are very,very good. It depends on your taste and buget.

SET12

[Duke Spinner]

it is my feeling along with others here that power is corruption!

the Absolute power to Smoke drivers ....

is ....Cool ...!!!

[TheEAR]

The specs you see published tell little about the overall quality of the amp.

Most importantly is how linear the amp will be under load,how much current can it deliver,the damping factor and is the rated power clean and undistorted with a solid headroom for peaks.As music is all about ups and downs,speakers,all speakers that is will present a variable load when listening to music(some quite linear some far less).

The amp in a $500 will be fine overall for what most will use it and push it,the higher quality separates will often deliver several times more output in the real world,not static load paper world.

Tak for example a Denon like my old 3802 rated at ..what was it 105W /PC and compare it to only a SimAudio Celeste 4070SE power amp a mere 70W per channel rating into 8Ohms.

Use these to drive speakers ranging from the RF7's to more exotic Contour S5.4's,very quickly you will hear the sound quality and real output of the Denon falls below the Celeste.And push them both the Denon collapses like a Jello,the Celeste delivers double its stated output into 8Ohms at 4Ohms,its is worlds better than the Denon,it can drive any speakers you throw its way,the Denon will run out of steam and deliver lower and lower output untill it shuts down(overheating).

Of course I take extremes here but these are to showcase the gain going from a receiver to a high quality power amp.Be it solid state or tube,stand alone power amps ALWAYS best quality receivers.

You can always get a monster Denon 5806 or a mutha Yamaha,B&K or Pioneer(all the know makers have big capable flagship receivers these days) and it would be fair to say these best low cost separates.

A receiver like the Denon 5806 is one impressive performer all around,buy lets pit it against a heavyweight combo from Anthem the D2 Statement pre/pro and the BIG 5 channel Anthem power amp.Now we are comparing a $6000US receiver with a $10000 worth of separates.The Anthem blows the Denon out of the water in amp capability,by a land slide! And the D2 Statement makes short work of the 5806 when upconverting and as a switcher/preamp.

All this said Denon makes fine receivers,and since Klipsch for the large part are easy to drive you should have no problems.

[colterphoto1]

The weight discrepency could be accounted for in power supply, which the integrated probably has in abundance.

I've noticed that many modern stereo receivers have much better damping factors than a similar offering from the same manufacturer in the HT lineup. My Yamahas are a case in point.

M