Damping The Rear Chamber Of My Compression Drivers ?

[ka7niq]

KA7---I moved from Chicago to Lexington in April.

The fella who bought my A7s (on AudioKarma) backed out and they're for sale again. $500, cheap. They were a gift from Rich Drysdale of Cogent and all I want for them is what they cost to ship to Lexington from Anaheim.

I'm also gonna sell my 605As in Barzilay cabinets.

Wow, he backed out ?

Those were about as nice a pair of VOTTS as I have seen in a LONG time.

There is a pair of them for sale locally on CraigsList Tampa, and the guy wants 650.00.

They are beaters compared to yours.

I BET you are luvin the Model 19's ?

I know you like Solid State Tom, and perhaps they can sound really good with it too.

But I was totally blown away hearing them with all Conrad Johnson tube stuff

[marems]

Ka7niq, I love the Epic series aswell, I have the 1st version CF-4's and I love the sound! I have thought about using some damping spray on the horns to try and stiffin up the horn material. I spoke with you on the phone about a year ago when I first got the CF-4's. Good luck with your project!

[TBrennan]

"I know you like Solid State Tom, and perhaps they can sound really good with it too."

Well I'm not doctrinaire about amps; I'm running one set of Altecs with a Fisher 500B, another set with a gain-clone and the 19s with a Denon SS HT receiver. Lots of things work well when the speakers are good. I have a Jolida, a Dyna PAS 3, an HK Citation 17, a TEAC T-amp and various other stuff in the closet, it gets circulated.

[ka7niq]

Glad you are happy with the CF 4's!

I like the CF series speakers too.

The best mine ever sounded was in a passive biamp setup.

I took out the speaker terminal shorting bars, and wired one amp to the woofers, and one to the horns.

Both amps had level controls, and were the same.

I slightly reduced the top amps level, JUST a tad, and oh my!

I think Roy Delgado, the CF Series designer, went for as flat a response as possible.

This is great, IF you are one who likes to use tone controls, LOL

Actually, they sounded great with an old top of line Pioneer Pro Logic Receiver.

I still have this receiver, and I like it because it has remote control tone memories.

You can program a bunch of tone control settings into it's memory, and switch on the fly, until it sounds best.

I was shamlessy enjoying this receiver with the CF 4's until some audio buddies made me feel "guilty" for using tone correction, LOL

But, I feel that the CF series speakers benefit from a slight reduction in the horns level, if you are like me and do not want to use tone controls/eq.

Another amp that was "majic" on both the CF 4's and CF 3's is the small Parasound HCA 500.

My big Moscode 600 did not do it on them, but this may change.

It just had all it's caps replaced, and will be back shortly.

What amp experiences have you had with yours ?

And, have you ever compared the CF speakers to other Klipsch ?

[ka7niq]

Wow, a DENON ?

I have owned the Denon 5600, and 5700, but never a 5800.

I have also owned the Harman Kardon AVR 7000, and a lot of other receivers.

I got on a "receiver kick" about 5 years ago, and had many come through my house.

For a surround receiver, with dolby digital, and all the gee whiz video stuff, my favorite is a real sleeper.

A JVC!

Yep, a 50 some pound JVC RX DP 9, or RX DP 10.

My European friends turned me on to it, and it seems to be quite well accepted on the other side of the pond ?

It has a sweet, warm sound quality, and it really takes my very best seperates to actually beat it.

It has a really cool switchable anti jitter circuit in it, and seperate power supply caps for all channels.

The supply caps look really small, but in stereo they all parallel.

The JVC will actually drive my VMPS RM 40's, a 4 ohm load, although not as good as a real big amp.

I probably have not heard the Denon you are using Tom, bet here is my take on the 5600 and 5700.

I found them to have a thin, detailed sound, which may be ok on speakers really warm and rich ?

The JVC RX DP 9 has more of a Luxman type sound, and it must be low on IM distortion too because it never fatigued me.

The Harman Kardon AVR receivers all shame the same bland, dark, uninvolving sound, kind of like a B&K 4430 amp.

The AVR 80, 85, and AVR 7000 never did it for me, a FAR cry from the OLD HK stuff.

The Luxman R 117, for a stereo only receiver is a masterpiece sonically, and at 160 WPC, not lacking in power either.

It is well known by now that personally I do not care for the Klipschorns.

But, the best they ever sounded in my home was with a cheap TEAC all in one CD/DVD player.

I read about the TRY Path amp here, and decided to look at the back of my TEAC bedroom stereo.

Sure enough, it was try path, and I hooked it up, and wow!

Best the Klipschorns ever sounded, but in all fairness to the KHORNS, my room is very wide, and I could not get an image like I like.

I still have a JVC digital receiver, you know, the one everyone raved about ?

It is a POS IMHO.

Onkyo makes one, and I took it home from Circuit City.

I returned it, but it wasn't bad on the Forte's and Klipschorns.

Certainly MUCH better then the JVC digital receiver.

I was not impressed with the Panasonic digital receiver either.

I have owned two of them.

I sold my Von Schweikert VR 2's to a guy who then called me back for my suggestions on what sounded good with them.

He had some Adcom stuff, and didn;t have a lot of money to spend.

I suggested a JVC RX DP 9 receiver, and a LITE Audio DAC 72 tube DAC.

That combo is almost shockingly 3 dimensional, and very affordable too.

He is very happy.

Like you, I like to find sleepers that sound good, and cost little.

[marems]

Hey! glad to hear back from you! Im running the Cf-4's off of a McIntosh MC150.The MC150 has the autoformers, so I run the CF-4's off the 4ohm taps, It really helped balance the overall sound out. Off the 8ohm tap, the horn level was a little too forward for my taste. I have compared the CF's to my KLF-30's which I really love, but the CF-4's spank them in every way! The 30's don't have the smooth full sound that the CF-4's carry. I also have the KLF-20's, Now those have a better sound of the KLF series IMO, They are a little more full sounding than the 30's But I think that the KLF series are great for Home Theater! I am just blown away by the CF-4's sound,over all the other Klipsch lines that I have listened too RF-3, RF-5 RF-7, and even the RF-83's But the 83's were not in a good demo room. I think it would be cool for Klipsch to bring back the Epic series, but as the 1st version with the newest updates! I will look for some CF-2's or 3's in the future to purchase, just because they are a great overall speaker!

[bodcaw boy]

Work is slow right now, and I have some extra time on my hands.

So, I am going to take my horn drivers out of my speakers, and place some damping material behind the dome.

I have NO IDEA what, or how much to put behind the dome, but I plan to try cotton, felt, and maybe even a foam rubber plug.

The speakers are Klipsch CF 3's, but I have Cornwall's to

IF it works, I may even try it on the Corns ?

I have done many Google searches for this, and can't seem to find anything about it, except that PWK supposedly did not like it, or something to that effect.

Well, PWK did not like the Tractrix flare either ~ ~ ~

get your facts straight....he did like tractrix horns....

I will of course be careful not to have the damping material actually touch the dome, etc.

I posted a similar thread, and didn't get many responses.

I can't see why it would not be a good thing ?

My "take" on the many Klipsch speakers I have heard and owned is that they place efficiency above ALL else.

Perhaps they were meant to be EQ'd, and a peak, dip, or resonance here and there was "overlooked" , all in the name of getting the MOST efficiency.

I guess this is ONE design approach .......

and damping does help...[]

boy!!

[marems]

Roy! I was wondering if you would drop in on this thread. As you can tell we love the Epics!!! LOL!

[bodcaw boy]

epic speakers....eh....they're okay......they were designed by some two bit engineer.....i hear he is a pain.....[]

boy!!

[ka7niq]

Work is slow right now, and I have some extra time on my hands.

So, I am going to take my horn drivers out of my speakers, and place some damping material behind the dome.

I have NO IDEA what, or how much to put behind the dome, but I plan to try cotton, felt, and maybe even a foam rubber plug.

The speakers are Klipsch CF 3's, but I have Cornwall's to

IF it works, I may even try it on the Corns ?

I have done many Google searches for this, and can't seem to find anything about it, except that PWK supposedly did not like it, or something to that effect.

Well, PWK did not like the Tractrix flare either ~ ~ ~

get your facts straight....he did like tractrix horns....

I will of course be careful not to have the damping material actually touch the dome, etc.

I posted a similar thread, and didn't get many responses.

I can't see why it would not be a good thing ?

My "take" on the many Klipsch speakers I have heard and owned is that they place efficiency above ALL else.

Perhaps they were meant to be Ed, and a peak, dip, or resonance here and there was "overlooked" , all in the name of getting the MOST efficiency.

I guess this is ONE design approach .......

and damping does help...[]

boy!!

I read somewhere that PWK preferred the Exponential flare.

Maybe it was in a discussion or review of the new heritage series ?

Where the midrange horns were left alone in honor of Paul, or something to that effect ?

But I know I read it, and if it isn't true, thanks for correcting me.

And thanks for the advice on damping too!

Chris

[TBrennan]

PWK was certainly aware of the tractrix flare given his stated admiration for Voight and the several Voight tractrix "bathtub" fullrange horns and Voight-Lowther drivers I saw several years ago in his museum.

The modern interest by Klipsch in tractrix was supposedly a result of Delgado's reading Bruce Edgar's tractrix articles in SpeakerBuilder magazine. This is stated in the interview Edgar did of PWK in SpeakerBuilder in 1989. In the same interview PWK expressed his preference for horns with collapsing directivity which doesn't rule out tractrix.

To quote Bruce Edgar from SB 4-89 "As we were wrapping up the last session with Jim Hunter, Roy Delgado, a design engineer at Klipsch,showed me his new development project: a 600hz tractrix horn for pro application. He had read my article on tractrix horns in SB (2/81) and wanted to try it for an application that required a shorter horn. I had a very warm feeling as I cradled it in my hands."

[ka7niq]

epic speakers....eh....they're okay......they were designed by some two bit engineer.....i hear he is a pain.....[]

Now YOU get your facts straight Pal, they were designed by a guy named Roy Delgado, Klipsch chief engineer.

I have spoke to Trey Cannon, begging him to provide us CF series 2 owners with the technical data to return our speakers to series one standards.

HE told me that only a guy name Roy Delgado could help me, because he designed them.

He said that this Roy Delgado guy was not easy to get a hold of, but that he would ask him, and get back to me.

I was impatient, and "tricked" the Klipsch switchboard girl into putting me through to him.

I though he would just hang up on me because I DID deceive the switchboard girl, but he took his valuable time to explain the history of the CF series speaker, in great detail too.

So, he is NOT a pain like you say at all.

On the contrary, he was very nice to me, and I really do not appreciate you "insinuating" that Klipsch chief engineer is a pain either!

Mister Delgado told me that in his opinion, the first CF series was the best, and that the CF 4 had the best crossover, for a reason I can't recall.

He said that the speaker did not sell well, and dealers were "complaining" that it was not quite as efficient, and had a "very different" sound from the other Klipsch speakers.

So, the speakers bass tuning was raised for more efficiency, and a crossover change was effected in the version 2's

He asked me what I though of the CF series speakers, and I told him.

I told him I have owned the CF 4 version 1's, and currently owned CF 3 version 2's.

I told him that indeed they did NOT sound like many Klipsch speakers I have heard or owned.

I told him that IMHO, this was a very good thing!

I told him that while they were not quite as efficient as some Klipsch speakers, they played plenty loud enough for any domestic situation.

I asked him if he had ever heard a really good high end speaker, like a B&W 801.

I do not recall what he said, but I told him they sounded more like the high end speakers I liked then the other Klipsch I have owned.

He said that they were aimed at the high end market, and he too strongly felt that his original design had been compromised by marketing decisions in the series 2's, and 3's.

He told me the series 3's had different woofers, and were not really the same speaker anymore.

Having heard the differences between series 0ne, and series 2 in my home, and being a high end audiophile, I told him that he HAD succeeded in making a true high end speaker with smooth, powerful response, low coloration, and outstanding imaging.

I asked him for some tips, and he told me to fire em right at me.

I asked him about tiltback, and he said to just install the front spikes, and let the rear "sag" if I wanted.

I asked him what he was using, and he told me a Yamaha amp.

He couldn't recall off hand what the crossover change was, but said if he had the time, he would contact Trey Cannon with it.

Trey said he couldn't find it, and so I am still searching, and waiting to pounce on a used version one CF 4.

I have driven almost every seller of used CF 4's crazy, because I make em pull the ports out and measure them, like Roy told me to do.

If they have the small 2 1/2 inch ports, they are either series 2's or 3's.

I am truly sorry if I upset you with my remarks about PWK, and my honest belief of his "dislike" for the Tractrix flare.

I was only repeating what I read somewhere, and I apologized.

But, IMHO, it doesn't give you the right to publicly slam Roy Delgado, and claim he is a "real pain" either.

If YOU do not like the Cf series speakers, that is your prerogative.

But to "claim" they were designed by some "two bit engineer" in my opinion is a direct slam at Klipsch Head Engineer.

boy!!

[ben.]

Now, that is f***ng funny.

edit - hey careful guys - the autocensor seems to be bung-holed - don't drop any F-bombs as they'll get through it...

[BEC]

And I am wondering how many here know bodcaw boy's real name.

[ka7niq]

And I am wondering how many here know bodcaw boy's real name.

Hello Bob, I don't know WHO he is, and this is JUST my opinion, but I like people who use their real names, or at least initials.

BEC stands for Bob Crites, DJK stands for Dennis something, DeanG is Dean G, ALK is Al Klapinburger, and Duke Spinner is Duke Spinner, at least I THINK he is.

Ka7niq is my Ham Radio Call.

To each his own, but from what I have read from this guy so far Bob, I can see why perhaps he hides behind made up monikers ?

It's pretty late in the evening now, and most are in bed.

But, when the regulars on this forum see how he slammed Klipsch Head Engineer, they might be as upset as me.

I do not know Roy Delgado personally, but he took the time to be kind to me, and answer my questions, just like you have done before Bob, in several Emails.

And, since a busy engineer like Roy has better things to do then hang around on a forum like this, he is obviously not here to defend himself.

I honestly think Bob that because it is late in the evening, this bodcaw knows he can temporalily "get away" with his insults of Roy Delgado.

And, I am sure when Trey or other Moderators see his slam of Roy, he will get moderated, and maybe more ?

If that happens, everyone will probably wonder what got into me, because they will not see what this bodcaw character did to set me off ?

I believe in free speech Bob, and I have been sometimes critical of the Klipschorns.

It is well known they are not my cup of Tea.

But, though I much prefer the CF 4 version ones to them, I do not call PWK a "pain" and a "two bit engineer".

Especially on the Klipsch board!

Well, finally my girlfriend, who is an RN, is home from work.'

She is doing Home Health, and had a patient with a crisis, and was called.

She has some wine for me she picked up from the store, and I need a drink after all of this.

The heck with this bodcaw, I am going to go out in the front room, turn on the CF 3's, and listen to some romantic Jazz with my Lady, and some good wine.

The Moderators will take care of him tomorrow!

[ben.]

Trey'll put the lil bastage over his knee tomorrow at the office to be sure.

ka7 - boy, are you gonna laaauuugh about this later....

[ka7niq]

Trey'll put the lil bastage over his knee tomorrow at the office to be sure.

ka7 - boy, are you gonna laaauuugh about this later....

Oh My God!

I just checked my Private messages.

Bob Crites sent me one, and let me "in" on what was really going on.

Bodcaw Boy Is THE Roy Delgado.

I honestly had NO Idea who I was talking to.

I meant no harm, quite the opposite.

I apologize to any I may have offended by my total ignorance of this situation.

Work picked up, and I was out the door before I had a chance to call Trey at Klipsch to "take care" of this "insult".

But even on my way to work, I expected to see this thread going nuts, once people saw last night's "insults" of Klipsch Head Engineer.

I guess everyone knew BUT me, LOL

And yes, I am laughing about it right now, because I have been "HAD", big time.

And, I am honored to have been allowed to provide such amusement for the wonderful people on the Forum.

[ka7niq]

PWK was certainly aware of the tractrix flare given his stated admiration for Voight and the several Voight tractrix "bathtub" fullrange horns and Voight-Lowther drivers I saw several years ago in his museum.

The modern interest by Klipsch in tractrix was supposedly a result of Delgado's reading Bruce Edgar's tractrix articles in SpeakerBuilder magazine. This is stated in the interview Edgar did of PWK in SpeakerBuilder in 1989. In the same interview PWK expressed his preference for horns with collapsing directivity which doesn't rule out tractrix.

To quote Bruce Edgar from SB 4-89 "As we were wrapping up the last session with Jim Hunter, Roy Delgado, a design engineer at Klipsch,showed me his new development project: a 600hz tractrix horn for pro application. He had read my article on tractrix horns in SB (2/81) and wanted to try it for an application that required a shorter horn. I had a very warm feeling as I cradled it in my hands."

Wow, Jim Hunter, now that is a blast from the past!

I used to pull and sell old Western Electric stuff out of theatres out West in the late 70's and early 80's.

I considered it "JUNK" back then, LOL

Half the time it was given to me by the movie theatres.

I couldn't imagine why the Japanese paid so much for that old stuff ?

I had a weird pair of Western Horns, almost looked like Trumpets ?

The Japanese would not buy them, and I was "stuck" with them, or so I thought ?

A guy I met in Audio Mart, IF you remember that , and NOT the one in Stereophile, told me of some guy who worked at Klipsch named Jim Hunter.

He told me that Jim Hunter might want them for his horn museum ?

And so, I called Klipsch, and spoke to Jim.

Sure enough, he bought them from me.

I could KILL myself for selling all the Western stuff I did, but I made a LOT of money off the Japanese.

Little did I know how good some of that stuff was.

I even asked several audiophiles WHY the Japanese wanted all that old stuff.

I was told it was a "status symbol" to have in a Tokyo apartment, LOL

Kinda like having the tail off of an old Pink Cadillac in your family room!

I FINALLY heard a full Western System, after it was ":too late".

OMG, now I finally saw why the Japanese wanted that stuff!

[marems]

Hey, That was great! you had me rolling! LOL!!

[marems]

Ka7nig, I forgot to tell you that there are a pair of CF-4's on audiogon. They might be the first version! Worth checking on. OOPSS!!!SOLD now sorry!