Electrical Issues... and Misc questions.... Tubes, ICs, etc.

[meagain]

OK - Peach will go straight to wall. Awesome!

Now I just have to triple confirm the best situation for the VRDs. I'm going to clean up everything today.

[NOSValves]

Lisa,

I seem to remember back when you purchased the amps used that Smillin had been using many different interconnects finding what he liked best. Some of these interconnect were the locking barrel types and I was told he had twisted it at one time and ended up with the RCA jack lose on one of the amps. If the RCA jack is lose you could end up with a open ground issue between preamp and amp. Did the hum come out of just one channel and if so was it the channel with this slightly lose RCA input jack? If so the problem is apparent. As far as your power strip thingy you may have simply exceed its rating for current and caused its safety curcuit it kick off the power. Sound like you need a higher rated power strip/conditioner. No big deal.

Craig

Craig - Yes, one of the rca ports on the vrd was loose, but it just needed an 1/8-1/4" turn to retighten with fingers. Seems solid to me. I'm trying to remember exactly what happened..... I was going to swap this interconnect and sat down next to the gear for a looksee. I went to look at a cord coming from a DVD player and barely touched the interconnect from it (like to look at it's label). Got tremendous hum but not sure if it was both speakers cuz I was very close to one. I immediately turned this dvd player off to make it stop. I figured something was going on with this and didn't think it had anything to do with the amps.... Then I swapped the interconnects on the VRDs from Radio Shack gold to these Audioquest Turquoise. Turned on the amp and got the hum (I think in that one speaker). I put back the Radio Shack IC and all was fine again. Weird!

Maybe I should just plug the VRDs into a decent power strip that has surge protection, right into the wall. Maybe a separate one for the Peach? IDK. Just don't want that to happen again. Not good.

Finger tight is not technically or electically good enough you were warned of this when you first purchased the amps used. Not that this will cause serious damage to the amplifier or the preamp but it can and will be questionable as the the absolutely ground connection at that RCA jack. The RCA jack should be absolutely tight for 100% reliable ground. That said YOU CAN NOT TIGHTEN this RCA from outside the amplifier and the job of tighten it from inside is a very tough one to tackle (hard to get to). I clearly remember explaining all this to you about a year ago. That issuie is the reason why Steve wanted the amps sent here before being placed in service. I believe he even offered to cover the shipping cost to me.

Craig

[meagain]

Well, things changed a bit at the time and it didn't really go down like that. IDK - I've never had this problem before. Anyone know if I can test this interconnect with a radio shack meter somehow?

[joshnich]

The inteconnect issue sounds familiar. I inserted some fancy interconnects (Grover Huffman) between my Peach and MC225s. When I would turn the power on, and the Peach was in standby mode, I had an unbelievable hum. As soon as the Peach turned on the hum went away and all was good. I simply changed back the interconnects and have not had a problem. If I recall Mark said that he could do something to the Peach to keep this from happening but for me it really wasnt worth having to ship the Peach. I t sounds fantastic with the interconnects I was previously using. The huffman interconnects, btw, sound great and are dead quite in all other applications.

Josh

[NOSValves]

OK - Peach will go straight to wall. Awesome!

Now I just have to triple confirm the best situation for the VRDs. I'm going to clean up everything today.

Plug them in where ever you please. I personally use no conditioner and protection what so ever. I could careless if a lightning storm is outside or not. I have home owners insurance that covers it all. Chances are about nill it would hurt a VRD any way IMHO if anything it would be tubes and the fuse which are consumables any way. In fact not a single component IN MY personal audio system is grounded in any way. But UNDERSTAND I am not advising, telling you or suggesting you do what I do. That is asking for trouble on my end.

My system is so quiet you have to get down on your knee's and stick your head up to the mid or tweeter to hear a thing and then its just a faint tube hiss which is impossible to get rid of in tube gear and retain a high level of Sonics IMHO. But just about every piece of gear I own has been modified to my liking except the VRD's they are the just about the same as anyone else VRD's with a few extra's I have tried over the last 3 years (with no reason other then laziness not the reverse them) in other words they did nothing audible to improve the design. But I always keep trying. I had them modified and biased into Class A Triode for two days last week for instance. I've had them setup with various levels of feedback and no feedback at all many times. I'm never done trying...........It's frustrating to tell you the truth.

Craig

[meagain]

Well, Home owners insurance aside - I'd sure hate to have my VRDs blow up.

I cleaned up things as much as possible except my CDP is still on the Powervar thing. The Behringer DEQ is linked to the Peach Aux 3 and even if the unit is unplugged, I get noise so the cords themselves are creating a problem. They are also attached to the CDP so there's some current exchange going on just by virtue of the cords? When I power up the Behringer, I hear no addition so I guess that's good. Aux 4 is my CDP without Behringer and I'd like to reduce the noise from that. Maybe when I do a more direct plug in of the CDP, I'll lose some hum there as well. I think things are better noise-wise overall though.

I'm a bit unclear how I can determine if I have hissy tubes in my peach vs. the Jolida CDP. If there's some trick to determine. My brain is getting mucked up. I still hear something from the listening position. Not bad though.

[Ray Garrison]

RE the RCA cord and Hummm.... I've used a few different AudioQuest interconnect cables in an effort to convince myself that they're making a positive change in my system, and in every case I found the termination to be poorly engineered.  Or executed, whatever.  Especially with the Topaz model.  The outer jacket is stiff, it's jammed into the big metal barrel connector, and has a little set screw that supposed to hold the jacket in there.  No strain relief.  When the jacket inevitably works itself free, the sheild wire and inner conductor are exposed, and start flexing back and forth.  Solder joints give out quickly.  (I know I know, why did I buy more than one set of this cr@ppy cable... I'm an idiot, please have pity.)  I'd guess you have a failed or failing solder joint on the shield wire on the hummy interconnect.  Of all the interconnects I've tried, I actually found the Radio Shack Goldens to be the best constructed in terms of the way the wire is mated to the connector.

[meagain]

Mark - I would think that the empty Aux slots wouldn't make noise because the Peach isn't engaged. But you're the Engineer.

Going by the above, it's the Jolida. But don't the amps play a role here? I'm listening to the Peach/Jolida/VRD with no audio on so.... I think I don't have an understanding on how the electrical all talks to each other or what a bad tube sounds like. My version of common sense says that if I'm listening to a tube amp producing sound, I might be hearing a hissy tube in that? IDK. My left speaker sounds more like pink noise, the right more SS/clinical with a tad bit of hum. Aux 3 (unplugged behringer) sounds identical to Aux 4 (CDP). I'm going to remove the used Audioquest Ruby ICs & put back Radio Shacks.

I'm curious as to what level of noise is tolerable for most here.

[NOSValves]

Mark - I would think that the empty Aux slots wouldn't make noise because the Peach isn't engaged. But you're the Engineer.

Going by the above, it's the Jolida. But don't the amps play a role here? I'm listening to the Peach/Jolida/VRD with no audio on so.... I think I don't have an understanding on how the electrical all talks to each other or what a bad tube sounds like. My version of common sense says that if I'm listening to a tube amp producing sound, I might be hearing a hissy tube in that? IDK. My left speaker sounds more like pink noise, the right more SS/clinical with a tad bit of hum. Aux 3 (unplugged behringer) sounds identical to Aux 4 (CDP). I'm going to remove the used Audioquest Ruby ICs & put back Radio Shacks.

I'm curious as to what level of noise is tolerable for most here.

Lisa, Lisa , Lisa , Lisa how many time do I have to say this. RCA Shorting plugs..... you can remove all doubt in respect to the VRD's making any noise by just taking a few minutes and make some RCA shorting plugs.

Here is what you do in black and white for the last time. If you do not do this I give up. I'm not saying after all this time that the amps could not be making some noise but THIS IS THE ONLY RELIABLE WAY TO KNOW.

1) shut your VRD's off.

2) Find some old junky RCA IC's the type that come with CD players

3) Cut the wires off 4" or so back from both male RCA ends

4) Take some wire strippers and carefully strip the outer insulation off

5) you will find some type of stranded outer shielding ground wires move these off to the side.

6) now you will see another round insulated wire.

7) strip the insulation off this wire like step 4.

8) twist the wires from both outer and inner conductors (wires) tightly together.

9) Tape the wires off

10) plug these into your VRD amplifiers

11) Fire your amps back up

12) report back whether you have noise above the point of having to stick your ear up the the mids and tweets to hear it.

If the amps are basically quiet then they are quiet amps, anything you attach to them that increased the noise floor is the culprit. Attach components one at a time. Simple easy 100% reliable method. Every audiophile should make a set.

[Piranha]

Simple easy 100% reliable method.

Are you sure about that?

[NOSValves]

Simple easy 100% reliable method.

Are you sure about that?

Tom,

Stirring the pot heh. I'm beginning to wonder myself LOL!!

Craig

[Piranha]

Simple easy 100% reliable method.

Are you sure about that?

Tom, Stirring the pot heh. I'm beginning to wonder myself LOL!!

Craig

Who me? []

[meagain]

LOL Craig - I again don't think the VRDs are adding any noise, but I'll do this just for you. Then you can beam about your creation when we find they are fine. Yes, I'll do that just for you. (I sort of thought HT bypass would do the trick, but OK). Might not happen tonight tho. Have to take a TV break.

(I feel I'm on the edge of a bit of audio happiness - maybe - possibly - or as good as I can get it given the room?) I need to hear other's khorns! I hope everyone will bring some out to KlipschFest.

[meagain]

Mark - Thanks. I guess the Peach tubes are ok then. I mean, I 'might' hear a tad bit of something if I put my ear to the horns, but I'm deeming it 'quiet'. Yes, when I switch to Jolida/Aux 4 - I get noise. I assume all Aux's are created equal. Or is there a hair's bit of greatness in Aux 1 over 4? I still didn't try plugging the Jolida into it's own socket and I really am thinking this PowerVar thing was a really bad idea - so I have some hope there.

[NOSValves]

But don't the amps play a role here? I'm listening to the Peach/Jolida/VRD with no audio on so.... I think I don't have an understanding on how the electrical all talks to each other or what a bad tube sounds like. My version of common sense says that if I'm listening to a tube amp producing sound, I might be hearing a hissy tube in that?

You don't? I really am going to have to take some reading comprehension course or am I simply going nuts[] By the way the hum you describe in one channel does that happen to be the amp with the loose RCA input? Hmm what does that tell you? If it happens to be the same amp it very well could be the slight hum problem.

Craig

[NOSValves]

Mark - Thanks. I guess the Peach tubes are ok then. I mean, I 'might' hear a tad bit of something if I put my ear to the horns, but I'm deeming it 'quiet'. Yes, when I switch to Jolida/Aux 4 - I get noise. I assume all Aux's are created equal. Or is there a hair's bit of greatness in Aux 1 over 4? I still didn't try plugging the Jolida into it's own socket and I really am thinking this PowerVar thing was a really bad idea - so I have some hope there.

Its possible the the IC between the Jolida and the Peach is the culprit also the quality of the shielding can make a huge difference in noise floor IC's. Only way to test that is to have another known good shielding set of RCA's to swap in the mix.

Craig

[meagain]

But don't the amps play a role here? I'm listening to the Peach/Jolida/VRD with no audio on so.... I think I don't have an understanding on how the electrical all talks to each other or what a bad tube sounds like. My version of common sense says that if I'm listening to a tube amp producing sound, I might be hearing a hissy tube in that?

You don't? I really am going to have to take some reading comprehension course or am I simply going nuts[] By the way the hum you describe in one channel does that happen to be the amp with the loose RCA input? Hmm what does that tell you? If it happens to be the same amp it very well could be the slight hum problem.

Craig

Gah! I was referring to my tube in the amp not the amp itself. The old Telefunkens that were given to me when I got the Jolida. He gave me 2 pairs of tubes for it and the Tele sucked in the Jolida. The other was Amperex Bugle boys (with cute logo) that I liked much better.... so I stuck the tele's in the VRDs. No clue if any are good or not. That's what I was saying by "hissy tube in that".

[meagain]

Mark - Thanks. I guess the Peach tubes are ok then. I mean, I 'might' hear a tad bit of something if I put my ear to the horns, but I'm deeming it 'quiet'. Yes, when I switch to Jolida/Aux 4 - I get noise. I assume all Aux's are created equal. Or is there a hair's bit of greatness in Aux 1 over 4? I still didn't try plugging the Jolida into it's own socket and I really am thinking this PowerVar thing was a really bad idea - so I have some hope there.

Its possible the the IC between the Jolida and the Peach is the culprit also the quality of the shielding can make a huge difference in noise floor IC's. Only way to test that is to have another known good shielding set of RCA's to swap in the mix.

Craig

Craig - I'm happy to report that the speaker with the bit of hum is NOT NOT NOT tied to the amp that had the semi-loose rca port. Ha! !!!!!!

IDK about the IC's between Jolida CDP/Peach. They were brand new Radio Shack gold somethings. They are a short run of maybe over a foot and 2 cords stuck together as a pair. Then I tried this used Audioquest Ruby Hyperlitz (3'). They both seem to have the same noise level deal. I have to get the Jolida off this PowerVar gadget but hubby is watching the football game now. He does some pool at work. On the bright side I finally got Comcast to think I'm not insane in bitching about my video quality and listened to me that I had way too many splitters. Spectacular TV quality! I can see nose hairs again. I'm on a roll. Wooo!

[meagain]

I made 2 shorting RCAs. I'm putting them in the preamp in of the VRDs. (just wanted to type that to quadruple make sure this is accurate).

[meagain]

Craig - I did the shorting plug test. No VRD noise unless I shove my ear in the grill cloth. Craig - do you have any other craft projects for me to do?