captaincook Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 I have a request from the forum readers who appear dedicated in providing information to Klpisch owners so that we may all enjoy one of the most beautiful experiences in life , MUSIC! I have been an owner of Klipsch for many years now but with work and family have had precious little time for my music. I am now settled in a new home and would like to finish my system for my "older years/ears". Currently my system is K-horns, no mods (1975) walnut finish, Perreaux SM2 pre-amp(no tone controls) and Perreaux 2150 B amp. (large at 200 watts). My source is (vinyl only) a Rega3 w/ Goldring 1022GX on a target stand. I also have a pair of hereseys for the den. Our old house had a listening room of much larger proportions. Over the years I have had many cartridges and amp combinations and find this Goldring quite acceptable. I had the Perreaux's sent to New York for cleaning and upgrades. I have a small room 11x20 that I am preparing for my main listening room. It is much smaller than I would like but without a major house addition, this is what I have to work with. Today I find the sound almost too brittle with bass that is present but not powerful. I have an old PROTON 1100 preamp that I used with the 2150B and while the sound was less sharp the Proton provided a smoother (adjustable) sound with its tone controls. I also had access to an ALESIS M-EQ 230 equalizer and hooked it up for a day. I was able to shape the sound to my liking but the Alesis is inherently noisy and therfore unacceptable for extended listening.I enjoy old classical rock/ blues and classical music. I have approximately 2500 albums. Any advice on the following would be greatly appreciated: -as my room size will be quite limited should I think of a smaller speaker to replace the K-horns? -would a change of amp/preamp for the K-horns match the room to my the sound? -is a crossover upgrade in the works? I received a letter from Steve Bailey(tech support) suggesting the upgrade not be incorporated if all is working well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 30 year old networks need rebuilt, period Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 Keep the KHorns! Cap or complete crossover upgrade those caps have drifted out of spec by now. I noticed a differance in my Belles cap upgrade and they were just brought up to spec nothing fancy. Have you heard quality tube amps on your khorns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 Try a sample or two of amplifiers that have low distortion at low power (not all that usual in ss amps). Remove all but essential electronics (phono pre, volume control of some type, and amp). I'd avoid tone controls if possible. Also try a power line rf filter (surge protector won't help the sound, although one may be included with the filter). I suspect your problem is, in the smaller listening space, you're using only a small fraction of a Watt of amplifier power and your amp is not optimized for such low power. lso, line rf may be modulating the audio. Note that a lower power amp, especially ss, is not necessarily good at low power, one has to obtain an amp that is designed to be exceptional at low power. Some possibilities: * one of the lower power PWM or "digital" amps. * the Crown D-45 (or possibly the D75A) * any of several amps recommended by others on this forum. If you find that the amp and/or power filter address your problems, you can begin adding back additional electronics and adjusting amp overall power to suite your final needs. Good luck, Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 Welcome to the Forum, fellow North American. The main problem you face with Klipschorns in your new home is the listening room dimensions. If you were to put them on the long wall's corners, you'd have a reflecting wall right behind you and you might experience a "hole in the middle" of your stereophonic experience. If you were to place them on the short wall corners, your ideal seat would be fairly close to the Klipschorns. I recommend you try them both ways, as it's easy enough to do, and see what you think. Low power amps are not the way to go as you would needlessly be restricting your music choices because such an amp would compress your music's peaks. While some people like digital amps, I think they sound unnatural, even disturbing after a time, similar to what I've heard described from former potheads as a marijuana buzz that gives one kind of a pressurized brain and bloated skull feeling. So anyway, I'd first see if the Klipschorns work for you in the new room. If not, there is no point in fine tuning anything on them or with them any further; their essentials will be the same. You may indeed find they aren't satisfactory in a room of your dimensions, or you may find they are. But that's the first step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 I think Leo, Paul, and Dean have all given great advice. The caps have certainly drifted out of spec, so even in a larger room you would want to get them 'freshened' or brought back into spec or replaced. Paul and Leo might sound a bit at odds, but I think they may be more in agreement than first appears. While you may not want a low power amp, much of the time you may not be using much power. If the amp isn't clean at low power, you will really notice it. Having never heard any of the digital amps, I wouldn't be able to comment on them. A smaller room may be bringing all of the high end to the fore, making them seem a bit harsh. All of the electronics things mentioned by Leo will help, no matter what speakers you end up with. The Crown D45 Leo mentions, is rated 25 wpc into 8 ohms. That is about the bottom for many here (even though I use very low power amps and am satisfied), and many would still go quite a bit higher in power amps. Obviously, you have used higher power. I have a feeling that the new room is only pointing out the defects that existed before the move. New caps for the crossovers would be a cheap fix/correction, and may be all you need to do. Speaker placement is going to be a bear. Neither the long or short wall will work quite right. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 A good source for Klipsch and general acoustics info is Paul W. Klipsch's "Dope from Hope" newsletters. PDF file attached. DOPE from HOPE!!!.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 That will keep him reading for a while [8-|] If I remember correctly the DFH articles reflect precisely what Parrot is saying. I have a question that has been rattling around in my brain since the Hope pilgrimage. We listened to Khorns snug into the corners driven with MC30s in a very small room and while the room was far from optimal it still sounded good. I am sure a golden ratio room would always be ideal but unless we are building our own rooms we have to deal with what we have. I am trying to find the right way toput this but would changing speakers help you deal with a smaller room and why? That experience really changed my perception of Khorns really needing a large space as they performed well with what they were given. I was very suprised as were others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captaincook Posted January 1, 2007 Author Share Posted January 1, 2007 Many thanks sent already for the reading material. Quite right about "awhile" also. I now have the luxury of being an empty nester and will try the K-horns in this minimal room firstly before any expensive mods. My family is in disbelief that I even suggested an alteranate speaker as they were raised (and quite likely heard the K-horns during pregnancy) on Klipsch. I am thankful for all the inputs from the believers. Regards Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captaincook Posted January 2, 2007 Author Share Posted January 2, 2007 No tube amps on these K-horns as of yet. I will set them up in the room and work from there. I see from other posts I will have my work cut out defining a list of favorite tube amps for serious Klipsch listeners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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