Heresy-can squawker+tweeter be replaced by Tractix?

[BrianG]

For and old Heresy, is it possible to replace both the squawker & tweeter with a tractrix horn that will cover the range from 700 hz to 17 Khz? Is it worth doing?

thanks,

Brian

[JohnA]

I don't understand all I know about Tratrix curves, but in general, a good quality compression driver should be able to cover 700 to 17k+. It and the horn might not fit into the cabinet, though.

John

This message has been edited by John Albright on 12-02-2001 at 06:20 PM

[TBrennan]

The only tractrix horn flares available to my knowledge are those from Bruce Edgar, Sierra-Brooks and Klipsch Pro, none will fit inside a Heresey. A good quality driver like a JBL 2426 or Radian 475 on an Edgar 550hz wooden "saladbowl" will take you from 700 to 17,000, you could finish the horn the same as the Heresey and sit it atop it. A JBL driver on a saladbowl is about as good as it gets. But that will cost as much as the original speakers, figure $500 for the drivers and $500 for the horns, Radian 475s are about $350 a pair. Using used JBL (2410, 2420, 2425, 2426) or Altec (802, 806, 902) drivers will save some money. Now as long as you're junking the Heresy top-end you might as well junk the bottom too and get Klipsch K-33 or Altec 416 or JBL 2231 woofers and...... :-)

[WMcD]

I think the question was whether the Heresy could be upgraded to work with the tratrix upper end as used in the R series and the like.

It would be possible for the Klipsch organization to do, but on an amateur level, no. These are not drop in replacement items.

Gil

[TBrennan]

Gil--Ah, I see. I get carried away. In any case those R series horns and drivers won't go down to 700 anyway. BUT--yes, some of the Epic series 2-ways crossed around 700-800 no? And were tractrix. Perhaps those horns and drivers are still available as parts. Brian could leave the low-pass of his woofer in place and make a simple high-pass for the new horn. He'd probably need a compensation network to EQ the new horn-driver, a 10-50 ohm resistor and a .47uf cap parralled would get in the ballpark, easily done. Of course it'd still have to sit atop his Heresey. Still, it's interesting.

[WMcD]

Maybe I was making too many assumptions myself.

It may be a matter of finding a Klipsch tratrix horn with matching crossover. Then the treble is okay.

Then you might have to tinker with the bass section of the crossover to make it match the Heresy bass box.

Certainly not impossible, but measuring equipment would probably be necessary.

We don't know much about Brian's situation or expectations.

Again, it is not a drop-in replacement type of thing. On the other hand, if one gets a bee in their bonnet that such a design is the only thing which will keep 'em happy, perhaps it is worth the investment in learning and money.

Gil

[BrianG]

William asked about my situation and expectations:

I have been an audio enthusiast and DIY tinkerer since my teens (30 years ago). A recent interest in horn speakers (why now after all these years...?) sent me to this forum as well as Audio Asylum's high effieciency BBS & forum. After some research, the purchase of a pair of Heresys or Cornwalls seemed like a good place to start.

I live in Toronto, Canada and Heresys on ebay would cost almost $1000 CDN given currency conversion and shipping costs. The DIY route suddenly became more attractive. Understanding that Klipsch will sell parts, I am trying to identify a cost-effective Klipsch midrange tractrix horn that could become the foundation of a mordernized DIY Heresy.

The interest in tractrix came from reviewing my stash of old magazines and periodical clippings such as Bruce Edgar's Speaker Builder articles, and the Audio Magazine article on Tractrix by Klipsch researchers.

What intrigues me about these older speakers is the wide frequency range covered by the midrange driver coupled with the low crossover frequency. I would like my DIY speakers to have the same characteristics.

I am hoping to get some suggestions about cost-effective drivers, either from Klipsch or other vendors, that I could use to build a DIY speaker with superior performance to the Heresy or Cornwall. Any help would be appreciated.

Brian

This message has been edited by BrianG on 12-08-2001 at 12:28 PM

[TBrennan]

Brian---I see. Well the midrange horn from the KP-301 speaker from Klipsch pro should be available as a part, about 3 years ago I bought 2 of them for $50 each, this is a tractrix horn that you can croosover at 600hz. For a driver I'd go with a high performence metal diaphragm type, that way you won't need a tweeter. For cost effectiveness I'd go with used Altec or JBL units. Altec 802, 806 or 902. Stay away from Altec 808s or 908s unless you rediaphragm them, they have limited highs, a Radian replacement diaphragm for them will cost about $50 each, Radians have excelent performence. In JBL 1" drivers you want to look for 2420, 2410, 2425, 2426, LE-175 or LE-85, all are excellent though the 2410 and LE-175 (same driver, just pro vs. consumer names for it) have a little bit less high frequency extension. Expect to pay about $300 for a pair of Altec or JBL compression drivers, worth every penny. THe Radian 475 is an excellent, California made, compression driver; about $160 each new. For the woofer I'd just buy the Heresey woofer from Klipsch and build an appropriatly sized box. The Altec compression drivers can be crossed at 600hz with a simple 1st order using a single cap, the JBLs will "clack" and will need a 2nd order filter. For a look at that Klipsch tractrix horn and how I used it look at my website, click on the little house. Oh, yeah, you'd need adaptors to mount the bolt-on mount Altecs and JBLs to the screw-on mount Klipsch tractrix, these are easily found at pro-sound shops.

[LyleS]

Hi Brian,

My suggestion is to keep looking locally ...

I managed to snag a pair of 80's vintage La Scala's in very good condition from a simple for sale add that was posted on my client's internal web site.

$300.00 dollarettes later ($200.00 US), and I'm a very Happy Camper.

You may want to place a wanted add in local paper, and see if someone's wife who is tired of the big old klipsches collecting dust in the garage, prods her hubby to give you a call ...

Just Suggesting that EBAY may not be the only source for vintage Klipsch in Canada.

Lyle.

------------------

Gear: Klipsch La Scala ;THX home cinema: KT-LCR, KT-SW15

Onkyo Integra DTR-7 THX

Panasonic RP91 DVD

NAD 7140 Stereo receiver powering LaScalas

[longdrive03]

Brian, I've used the Klipsch K-90-KV 7 x 10" tractrix horn in a three way crossed over at 750 Hz using a Klipsch Tangent T-4000/5000 xover and it sounds great. Just a few minor differences between the T-4000 and Heresy xovers. I can't quote you specs on this horn as to low end cutoff but it sounds great. Same horn used in the KLFC7 center channel. It has to be modded to accept a screw on or bolt on driver/adaptor. I think the faital drivers may work. I've got some extra T4000 xovers if you need a couple. I've attached two pics shoing the K-90 (shorter) vs a Parts Express 8 x 12" horn (non tractrix) for comparison. Good luck.

[moray james]

http://www.critesspeakers.com/crites-cs-1-speaker-project.html