Satyr Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Ok, so I'm wanting to rebuild my crossovers. They're the HIE types which direct the audio traffic to K-77, K-55-V, and K-42. Why rebuild? For one thing I want to beef up the skimpy 16 ga. connecting wires to 12 ga. Plus, one of the caps had come off its mounting tab and sticks to the back of the K-42 magnet (gee what's that mechanical buzzing sound that keeps time with the low beat?). Also, the paper on the coils (transformers?) are really showing their age. These speakers are about 30 years old. So, what do I need to know when selecting new caps? Dielectric type? Which type to get? I assume I go with the same capacitance values. What about the coils? What to use there? I can weild a soldering iron like a samuri sword, but the esoterics of crossover components is a new religion to yours truly. Any help for this old Satyr? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 A search of the forum will reveal the original, and a few updated shematics of the Heresy netwok. Maybe some will post them. As to caps, you'll hear about those too, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 The Heresy industrial network is very similar to the Klipschorn type AA network. Replace the caps with a good brand of polypropylene, same exact values. Try taking the screw out of the 245µH tweeter inductor and glue it down, makes a small difference. If you want to throw money at it you can replace the woofer inductor with an 14ga air core type. Do not replace the T2A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Do not replace the T2A. Because he doesn't need to, or because of some other reason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Because he doesn't need to. I wouldn't put 12ga in there either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satyr Posted January 10, 2007 Author Share Posted January 10, 2007 Why no 12ga wire inside for the crossover components? And. What then if not 12ga and why? Not challenging your advice, just wondering what the impact and influence is on wire size besides bigger wires/more strands = less resistance & cooler wires at a given power use. Does wire size affect stray capacitance and stray inductance to a noticible degree of concern? Or are there other things worth considering? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddyi Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 be difficult to solder, stiffer, clear insulation variety will turn green quick, DCR of short run of 16 should be low enough not to alter qes much(I'd like to know why Hersy one has so much apparent overlap of its woofer to midrange)Wire Gauge Resistance per foot4 .0002926 .0004658 .00073910 .0011812 .0018714 .0029716 .0047318 .0075120 .011922 .019024 .030226 .048028 .0764 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 The voice coils have hundreds of yards of very fine wire... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Why no 12ga wire inside for the crossover components? Not worth the effort, you couldn't hear it. And. What then if not 12ga and why? Leave the wire alone. Not challenging your advice, just wondering what the impact and influence is on wire size besides bigger wires/more strands = less resistance & cooler wires at a given power use. Not when the wires are 18" long. Does wire size affect stray capacitance and stray inductance to a noticible degree of concern? NO, are you kidding?! Or are you just looking for an excuse to change something? Or are there other things worth considering? The old caps are worth changing, maybe. The HIPs I gave to the Church don't sound like they need caps. You can improve the sound at high power by changing the woofer inductor to an air-core inductor. Air-core inductors won't saturate and change value at high power levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satyr Posted January 11, 2007 Author Share Posted January 11, 2007 Thanks Guys for the comments and info--all good. I'm definitely changing out the caps. Having not only heard enough "chatter" about changing old caps in the forums at large, a Klipsch tech email said old caps develop resistance over time and therefore reduce high frequency output. Anyway, if I don't change the caps then the one which has popped off its mounting tab, as the spot welds have failed, would have to be glued down (or build a contraption of a strap/bracket to mechanically hold it in place) or better yet (you'll love this): let the woofer magnet hold it like it was all this time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 So you could put the K42 in the SM cabinet, but have significant loss of bass. But it sure would scream! Here ya go: "The Heresy is also available in a total enclosure (not ported) 45degree SLANT MONITOR (SM) configuration employing either standard drivecomponenets or th ehigh efficiency drive components of the HIP. Theseunits are designated H-SM and HI-SM respectively. The HI-SM's resonseis tailred to droop 6 db per octave below 130 Hz." That and thefollowing specs are directly from the brochure. I don't make this stuffup. I'm just reporting what the company brochure says. Hereare the crossover changes. In the H it is the Type E, the HI uses typeAA-H network - to further complicate things my personal HIP's havenetwork HIE. I'll look these all up at the shop today and post whateverschematics I can find. Woofer is the same at 6 db at 700 Hz. Mid HP is the same, except the transformer attenuation is 3 db in the HI vs 9 db in the H Tweeterhas a 6 db/octave rolloff below 6000 hz, 12 db/octave rolloff below 700HGz, and 6 db attenuation at transformer, in the HI version the Tweeteris given an 18 db/octave rolloff below 6000 with zener diodeprotection. So if you have an HI-SM, it appears thatyou really are setup for the K42 high powered driver. The K55V and theK77 are the same in all cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satyr Posted January 13, 2007 Author Share Posted January 13, 2007 Colterphoto, My cabinet enclosure is the ported slant monitor. I noticed that inside the the cabinet, a past owner has put electrical tape over the port openings. If the ports are to be closed off this is the wrong way to do it don't you think? But, to port or not to port, that is the question. If non-porting is advised, then I'd put in a solid plug. Yet I assume that the port fully open is preferred? Your sage advice? Just to clairfy though on the innards: HIE network, with the low/mid/high as K42/K55V/K77 Not to be tedious, but what if a rectangular cabinet were built--same size as common Heresys--and do a full organ transplant. Would that increase the base response? And bring along the ports too, or not? Or should I just replace the caps, leave the innards alone in the slants, deal with the ports as per your advice, and let sleeping dogs lay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 The K42 has too high of an Fs and too low of a Qts to have any real bass in any sized box. Consider a sub with an electronic crossover. If you want to build a new box, build a Cornwall sized one and buy K33s. The Cornwall III uses the H700 sized horn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satyr Posted January 13, 2007 Author Share Posted January 13, 2007 djk, thanks for the the sugesstions. I'll incorporate them for a future speaker build project. Then leaving the cabinet and innards as is for now: to port or not to port, that is the question. Cause now, that clumsy taped over port I found has me up at night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 I'd like to see a photo of that HISM with ports. I get the feeling that the ports are not original spec. In any case, yes plug them solidly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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