joessportster Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 hello all i just bought a vpi tnt version number 5 hot-rod, but the ouner kept the tonearm(jmw 12.5) so i need a 12 inch tonearm preferrably one that uses a flat base not a stud that goes thru a armboard or plinth........problem is i only have about 1000.00 to use for the arm. any suggestions for a good budget arm that may fit the bill used is fine with me Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtnrm&1171777677 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 What happened to the Clearaudio table you just bought? I would be real curious to know the differences you hear between the 2 tables, and which one you prefer. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 Let me add to Mike's question -- how the Basis you had compared with these? Thanks. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 Well, kids. SInce his new VPI doesn't have a tonearm I doubt Joe has had the opportunity to compare one with the other!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 Yeah, you know what I meant. [] I would think the VPI arm is the one to have anyway for that table. Still curious to know how the two compare once this one is up and running. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted January 23, 2007 Author Share Posted January 23, 2007 thanks but already sold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBryan Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 What cartridge are you planning on using? It'll narrow down your choices quite a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 If it were me I'd not bother with anything but the VPI arm. They are most certainly not a mere afterthought to the designer. If you can't find one now, wait. Putting a budget arm on that player is like putting $59 tires on a Ferrari. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted January 24, 2007 Author Share Posted January 24, 2007 hello all, i plan on trying to find a vpi arm, but thought there may be another arm available with similar mount, as far as the clearaudio i will be doing a side by side to see which i like better but that will be a while off, and bryan the cartridge i plan omn starting with is my denon but i a m open to any of your thoughts as it is your fault i bought this thing[] Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 It ain't our fault you bought it armless! (wink) Try a search or post in the vinyl section of audioasylum as well if you haven't yet. Lots of guys into VPI over there. I found a lot of info when I got my Scout that was helpful. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted January 24, 2007 Author Share Posted January 24, 2007 thanks ben, ill give that a shot p.s. i just found a new sds hope this isnyt already sold Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBryan Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 hello all, i plan on trying to find a vpi arm, but thought there may be another arm available with similar mount, as far as the clearaudio i will be doing a side by side to see which i like better but that will be a while off, and bryan the cartridge i plan omn starting with is my denon but i a m open to any of your thoughts as it is your fault i bought this thing[] Joe Joe - Don't blame me for your latest buying spree... I liked your CA TT. The JMW is a great choice for the TNT (naturally) and it may be a good match with most Denon cartridges. In case you don't have it handy, there's a simple equation to determine capability based on the arm's mass and the cart's compliance (cantilever stiffness). Together they resonate at a certain frequency which causes a increase in gain at that point. The idea is to match the arm and cart so that they resonate at a frequency below the audible capabilities of your system and/or hearing and above frequencies that may cause vibrations beyond the damping abilities of the TT's plinth and suspension. In general, that target range is 9-12Hz and one equation to determine the resonant frequency is... Res. Freq. = 1000/[6.28 x square root(mass x compliance)] There are more complicated and accurate ways of determining RF but this equation will get you pretty close. The rule of thumb is that most unipivot arms are considered light to medium mass (the JMW signatures are heavier) and most Denon carts have fairly low compliance (less springy cantilever) so it seems that the combination could work but you may want to check the specs and run the figures to be certain of a good match. Good luck with your search. Happy tracks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted January 24, 2007 Author Share Posted January 24, 2007 hey bryan its a trade off you blame me for being late for dinner i blame you for my buying spree..............it all works out in the end doesnt it?????[^o)], at any rate thanks for the equation (now if i can only figure out how to equate it [:^)]) seriously thanks for the help!!!!!!!!! the real reason i bought the tnt is i wanted the control it offers with the sds there are many rave reviews about that speed controller and after talking with you and hearing that your friend was able to pick up on the fact your rig was off speed a tad i got to thinking i have no real way to adjust speed in order to be sure im dead on and thereby improve the sound overall joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBryan Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 "hey bryan its a trade off you blame me for being late for dinner i blame you for my buying spree.............." Fair enough Joe. The SDS will certainly improve your TT's sound. I did the same as you in that I picked up the TNT before getting the SDS. I had the TT for a few months before I got the SDS and definitely noticed an improvement - especially considering there's no other way to change the speed on the TNT's motor. Oddly enough with all that control, I still tended to speed up the RPMs a bit but as you mentioned, my friend noticed the discrepancy immediately. When I adjusted the speed to his liking, it was just over 60Hz (60.21) which was about where the the motor would be running if it were plugged directly into the wall. Of course, the SDS not only dials in the speed but it does a good job of cleaning up the power and isolating it from the TT resulting in a more articulated bottom-end and quieter noise floor. Plus, you can use it with any synchronous motor (AC) - equipped TT if and when you move on. As for the Frequency Resonance equation, your Denon DL-103's compliance is 5cu. The VPI JMW 12.5's mass is 11.5g. Just plug those numbers in and if my calculations are correct, you get a FR of approx. 21 which is too high - meaning that the combo is not a good match. Your Denon cart has an extremely low compliance rating while the JMW arm is in the low-to-moderate mass category. Your choices are either to get a heavier arm or a cart with higher compliance. First, I'd suggest that you check my figures and calculate the FR yourself and if they work out the same then I'd start looking at higher compliance carts. Last time I spoke with Mike at VPI, he recommended the JMW arm with Dynavector carts like the 10x5 and 20x. Have fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBryan Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 Joe, Another Resonant Frequency equation can be found here... (sorry, Safari doesn't mesh well with the new Klipsch web software so it doesn't accept links) http://www.mhsoft.nl/MySystem/rf.html Simply plug in your numbers and POOF!... you get the RF - can't get easier than that. Now, if the Denon DL-103 has a compliance of 5 and weighs 8.5g and the JMW 12.5 weighs 11.5g and we assume that misc, screws etc. weigh .5g, then the RF is 15.7Hz. Still a bit high but much closer to what you're looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 Why would anyone buy a megabuck table and start looking for an arm that will work with a $100 cartridge. I don't get it. If you love the sound of the Denon, then you really need an SME 3012 or an FR66 or an Ikeda 407, but any of these are going to set you back way more than $1000 on the used market. Plus, I doubt any of them will be an easy fit on the TNT. You should wait and get the VPI arm, get an appropriate cartidge and then have a ball! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted January 25, 2007 Author Share Posted January 25, 2007 alan i didnt buy the "mega bucks" table to go with a 100 dollar cartridge.. i simply already have the cartridge and since i am not a millionaire i have to take some time to get a differant cartridge, as a matter of fact if the vpi hadnt popped up at a very reasonable price i was going to get a better cartridge. bryan thanks for the help and the link Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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