joessportster Posted February 13, 2007 Author Share Posted February 13, 2007 fritz i have alot of used classic rock albums (you know the ones no one really took the time to care for much) and my progression of tables goes like this i started with an onkyo, i moved to a thorens 160, i moved to a dual 5000cs, i then bought a basis 1400, then the clearaudio, now a vpi tnt, i have noticed marked improvement in background noise as i have upgraded but i also have a vpi record cleaner and i use a stylus cleaner (lyra spt).............in my opinion i found all my upgrades worth the effort and the cost but more for other reasons (soundstage, seperation, airyness, detail etc...) will the clearaudio get rid of all background noise and make your lp sound new or close to? NO !!!!!!!!!!, will it give your system a new level of other benefits mentioned above ? YES!!!!!!!!, it is my beleif that the table does affect the background noise but not to the level of proper cleaning and stylus care....................to achieve what you are looking for i think your money would be better spent buying a record cleaner and stylus cleaner (assuming of course you dont already have these) oh i should also say that i had 2 record cleaners a nitty gritty medium level(cant remember the exact model #) , and the vpi 16.5...............the vpi smokes the nitty gritty with ease...........im not trying to tell you how to spend your money, just from your questions i beleive this is not what you are looking for as far as results would go by the way i used a denon 103 with the basis, clearaudio and the tnt, and a grado b-4 that Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Joessportster Yeah, thats kinda the information I was looking for....I was not sure if these exotic TT's allowed the use of smaller needles that tracked deeper in the groove where standard needles could not reach and as a result giving you new record sound. I call the old record sound of scratch, pop, click vintage since my teenagers refer to the sound that way and if you notice a lot of pop artist will add the vintage sound to their modern recordings. I don't have a problem with new records, or even records I've played numerously but bought new, just records I buy used, most on this forum.....so I was wondering if this was a needle/record groove wear pattern issue in which folks who sell records hear nice sounding records but once you place these on different TT's with different needles do the new or different needles hit spots that are worn to fit the previous needle. Meaning...would my nice sounding records played since new with my new needle sound like cr...p if I send it to you to play. Cleaning doesn't seem to change this...I think it's just a record wear issue of some type. What I am hearing from the folks who responded is to get a second TT and rig it with a heavy needle that tracks at a higher grahm setting for the worn records. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 http://cgi.ebay.com/THORENS-TD-125-MK-2-IN-NICE-CONDITION-NO-TONE-ARM_W0QQitemZ140085425163QQihZ004QQcategoryZ3283QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item140085425163 $13.50 so far.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 All good info and advice. A record cleaner is critical. I've owned quite a few tables and none will eliminate noise from LPs, even new LPs in many cases. It's the price you pay for that wonderful sound of vinyl. What I have noticed as the quality of my tables, arms and carts have improved, is the noise seems to separate from the music, allowing more enjoyment and less distraction from the pops and clicks. I have very few LPs that are truly "dead silent." Some that seem that way would most likely have some noise if there were more quiet passages. With LPs that rock from start to finish, the noise is covered up by the music and gives you the impression that it's a quiet LP. You'll also find that better quality vinyl will give you a quieter background. MFSL and other half speed issues, 180-200 gram pressings using virgin vinyl will almost always sound more quiet, all things equal. A table/arm/cart combo as Allan desribed can certainly reduce noise but will never completely eliminate it. You have to decide for yourself if it's something you can live with and still enjoy the music. Some folks can't get over it and end up sticking with CDs. Others like myself aren't bothered by a few pops and clicks. I play one CD for every 100 LPs or so on my main system. Only you can decide how much noise you're willing to tolerate and how much time and effort you're willing to put into playing music. Vinyl done the right way is significantly more time consuming but the results can be very rewarding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted February 13, 2007 Author Share Posted February 13, 2007 ditto to what gary said...................... i play fm more than cd's and vinyl more than anything Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillH2121 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 "Nothing will wear a record our FASTER than tracking at TOO LIGHT a weight for the cartrdige. 3-4 grams tracking weight will wear a record out no faster than 1.75 grams--all other things being equal." I have to agree with Allan, my understanding has always been that tracking at too light a weight allows the stylus to "bounce" around in the groove causing degradation over a period of time. My experience has been that the better my table and cart, the more I was aware of extraneous surface noise in softer passages, not merely pops and clicks. As Gary mentioned, this problem is mainly noticed with classical music, not other forms where the volume is somewhat higher and more constant. I really like the looks of the that clear TT - I would backlight it for dramatic effect:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 All good info and advice. A record cleaner is critical. I've owned quite a few tables and none will eliminate noise from LPs, even new LPs in many cases. It's the price you pay for that wonderful sound of vinyl. What I have noticed as the quality of my tables, arms and carts have improved, is the noise seems to separate from the music, allowing more enjoyment and less distraction from the pops and clicks. I have very few LPs that are truly "dead silent." Some that seem that way would most likely have some noise if there were more quiet passages. With LPs that rock from start to finish, the noise is covered up by the music and gives you the impression that it's a quiet LP. You'll also find that better quality vinyl will give you a quieter background. MFSL and other half speed issues, 180-200 gram pressings using virgin vinyl will almost always sound more quiet, all things equal. A table/arm/cart combo as Allan desribed can certainly reduce noise but will never completely eliminate it. You have to decide for yourself if it's something you can live with and still enjoy the music. Some folks can't get over it and end up sticking with CDs. Others like myself aren't bothered by a few pops and clicks. I play one CD for every 100 LPs or so on my main system. Only you can decide how much noise you're willing to tolerate and how much time and effort you're willing to put into playing music. Vinyl done the right way is significantly more time consuming but the results can be very rewarding. So, in other words, just buy a Basis TT and be done with it. Right G? [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Well said Mr. Piranha.[Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted February 13, 2007 Author Share Posted February 13, 2007 "Nothing will wear a record our FASTER than tracking at TOO LIGHT a weight for the cartrdige. 3-4 grams tracking weight will wear a record out no faster than 1.75 grams--all other things being equal." I have to agree with Allan, my understanding has always been that tracking at too light a weight allows the stylus to "bounce" around in the groove causing degradation over a period of time. My experience has been that the better my table and cart, the more I was aware of extraneous surface noise in softer passages, not merely pops and clicks. As Gary mentioned, this problem is mainly noticed with classical music, not other forms where the volume is somewhat higher and more constant. I really like the looks of the that clear TT - I would backlight it for dramatic effect:) check out the avatar for the backlight photo, Piranha i had a basis,and i can say they are a nice table, build quality (i had the 1400), and sound are very good, but i had improvements with the clearaudio champ level 2...............i have always had a problem with any hobby i get involved in " i'm never satisfied " no matter what, im always looking to improve what ever i am into at the time, and im not bashing basis i happen to beleive they are a nice rig and if soomeone is satisfied with them well they could be a lot worse off !!!!!!!! joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillH2121 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 joe - that's very nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted February 13, 2007 Author Share Posted February 13, 2007 joe - that's very nice. thank you sir............... the clearaudio is much prettier than the tnt, and the sound is very close............ but as ive been told the farther up we go on our systems the less we get in the way of gains........... Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted February 15, 2007 Author Share Posted February 15, 2007 bump !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 "Nothing will wear a record our FASTER than tracking at TOO LIGHT a weight for the cartrdige. 3-4 grams tracking weight will wear a record out no faster than 1.75 grams--all other things being equal." I have to agree with Allan, my understanding has always been that tracking at too light a weight allows the stylus to "bounce" around in the groove causing degradation over a period of time. My experience has been that the better my table and cart, the more I was aware of extraneous surface noise in softer passages, not merely pops and clicks. As Gary mentioned, this problem is mainly noticed with classical music, not other forms where the volume is somewhat higher and more constant. I really like the looks of the that clear TT - I would backlight it for dramatic effect:) check out the avatar for the backlight photo, Piranha i have always had a problem with any hobby i get involved in " i'm never satisfied " no matter what joe Joe, you wouldn't happen to be related to Dean would you? [] Sorry Dean, I just couldn't resist. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser SET say Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Joe, regarding this thread I must say the (I THINK) in your system profile is priceless[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted February 15, 2007 Author Share Posted February 15, 2007 no relation ( I THINK ) learned a long time ago never say never, or im satisfied !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser SET say Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Absolutely Joe, I've enjoyed the threads and gears going in and out of your system[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 no relation ( I THINK ) learned a long time ago never say never, or im satisfied !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 Joe Joe, You're certainly lucky to have the expendable resources to do that. I guess you have a lot deeper pockets than I do. [] My priorities are private schooling for my kids, paying child support, paying alimony, two house payments, paying for mine and my ex wife's lawyer, saving to buy more property, etc., etc. You know, all the boring stuff. As others have said, it's fun to watch a lot of you guys roll gear. I guess for now I'll just have to be satisfied living vicariously through all you gear rollers. Enjoy the ride! [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted February 17, 2007 Author Share Posted February 17, 2007 my expendable income has come tp a grinding hault, (jr was born on 2-6-07) and most of my gear swapping has come from selling what i already have to be able to buy new, on this little venture i charged the tnt and now the clearaudio is supposed to pay the charges off but it isnt looking good........i just put the table on ebay and we will see what happens there Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Whats the listing # Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Whats the listing # http://cgi.ebay.com/CLEARAUDIO-CHAMPION-LEVEL-2-mint-tonearm-available_W0QQitemZ260088083152QQihZ016QQcategoryZ3283QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.