Model H

[cc1091]

So the Heresy used to be called the Model H?

Why is there no listing under Klipsch Classic products for a Model H? It doesn't look like the Heresy that I am used to. Does it have the same drivers and crossover??

Any history on these would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[justin_tx_16]

the Model-H heresy design was meant for only for along-the-wall placement, and did not have the bass response of the bigger monsters.

that is all i could find on that.

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-justin

I am an amateur, if it is professional;

ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665

Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH

RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150

[justin_tx_16]

some more info...

October 1967 - they still made the Klipsch H-700 speaker system

that's all i could find... gonna take a lifetime klipscher to really help you out here! i am only an amateur to the Klipsch world

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-justin

I am an amateur, if it is professional;

ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665

Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH

RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150

[justin_tx_16]

no one has anymore info on this?

------------------

-justin

I am an amateur, if it is professional;

ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665

Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH

RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150

[WMcD]

It seems to be a long story. My knowledge is imperfect and I fill in with inferences, which may well be in error; I hope small error.

First, one must realize that the design arose in the days when stereo first became possible in home systems. Wide speaker placement of the side units made sense. However, this often led to a "hole in the center". Even if that was not a problem, when the listener was not in the "sweet spot" the image wandered. Both inevitable problems regardless of using horns or otherwise.

Stereo was nothing new to the ancients, like Bell Labs. Also, movie theaters had the same problem. All found the same solution. That being a center channel speaker. And naturally it is hot item these days in Home Theater. It is an ancient secret re discovered every generation. I'm a big fan.

One enduring issue is whether the center channel speaker has to have full frequency response. For the most part, no. But that was known from the 1930s. Current wisdom has them going down to 70 Hz, with flat response, were the center is set to "small". This is a very conservative design parameter.

Going back to the past....

The H was originally designed by PWK as a center channel speaker for the K Horns. The tweeter was the K-77. The mid horn was smaller than the K-400. However, those drivers had efficency matched to the K-Horn down to 600 Hz.

What to do below 600 Hz? The initial answer by PWK was to use a direct radiator which was not horn loaded. By the standards he'd established for the K- horn, this was technical heresy. However it would be okay if the efficency of mid and tweeter was not compromised. Another way of saying this is that the bass driver would not be driven too much and give distortion which bass horns reduced. His prime issue of faith.

Hence the model H had a shelved response in the bass. This means it was equal in performance with the K Horn down to 600 Hz or so, and then had the radiation from the direct radiator bass 6 or more dB down in level, down to, let me guess, 70 or 50 Hz.

So you can see the compromise. The H was not a full range bass speaker. But it was a good compromise center channel. The bass driver was not pushed into levels where distortion would arise as compared to the K-Horns. So, it was not too much heresy in the bass. Still enough output to work.

There are a couple of early H models in the Klipsch museum. There were many variations with smaller or larger woofers and box sizes and styles.

Why not call it a "Heresy" from the start and, rather, use the "H" designation to the public? I can only think that in a conservative religious setting, the insider, joking, nickname of Heresy may have offended outsider buyers if used in public. Those were different times. Christian religions identified themselves according to which heresies, in schools of theology, were rejected or embraced.

Eventually, the model H was changed to a full range speaker. The output of the mid and tweeter were reduced to match the direct radiator. This may well have been a more actual technical heresy. I don't know whether the change to full range accompanied the public use of Heresy trademark rather than "H". Probably close in time.

Naturally I invite comment by others.

Gil

This message has been edited by William F. Gil McDermott on 12-07-2001 at 11:07 PM

[justin_tx_16]

thanks for the reply.

i think that i remember, forgive me if you allrady said this, but did'nt you set the "H" model speakre slightly closer in? say, you have a wall, the left and right are against it and the center push a foot or so away from the wall, like to get some sort of 3D imaging?... maybe i am just dreaming!

------------------

-justin

I am an amateur, if it is professional;

ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665

Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH

RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150

[cc1091]

Thanks Gil for the short history as you know it. Also thanks Justin for your info.

Anyone else have more to add. The center channel thought explains a lot.

[Malcolm]

By "it doesn't look like the Heresy" do you mean the one you saw had a kitschy art deco look with kind of a frame on the front? If so, its still pretty much a Heresy. Similar components and size. They came in other styles, too. I saw a 1960 or so model H in theater black that looked just like what what you would expect of a Heresy.

My guess as to why model H and H700 do not show up in the product list is that they are just lumped in with Heresy.

I remember a post by BobG a long time ago saying that in the earliest Heresys the squawker and tweeter ran flat out and the woofer kept up as best it could. Haven't had a chance to see inside one up close, but I would expect that the crossover would not have the autotransformer we are familiar with in the Heresy.

The change to a full range speaker seems to have been made at least by the early to mid 60s. H700s appear to be virtually identical to Heresys. My 1965 H700s have K-77, K-55-V on K-700 horn, K-22 (Electrovoice SP12B) and Type C crossover. My 1972 Heresys have K-77, K-55-V on K-700 horn, K-22 (CTS with big magnet circuit) and Type C crossover. My 1974 Heresys have are a bit different with K-22 (CTS with smaller magnet circuit) and Type E crossover. Box sizes are virtually identical.

The crossover differences between type C and type E appear to be due to the difference in efficiency of the woofer when they went to the smaller magnet.

I think the move to actually calling them Heresys in public may have been a marketing ploy in the 60s as Klipsch started to push them as main speakers instead of just center channels. I remember a lot of print advertising pushing them.

[cc1091]

The only model H that I remember seeing was a picture of one on E-bay with 5 other Klipsch speakers. The pending sale created quite a stir here on the BB. The model H looked a lot like the shorthorn that was beside it. I can't describe much about it, but it didn't strike me as looking a lot like my 1981 era Heresys.

[Malcolm]

The one you saw on eBay is the art deco look I was refering to. All I remember seeing on eBay was a front on shot of it. I don't know if this is the original Klipsch look or whether somebody customized it. The size looked about right to me for a predecesor of the Heresy. But the outside doesn't tell a lot. Its what is inside that tells the story. Acoustic suspension woofer, horn midrange, horn tweeter. The acoustic suspension woofer was the "heresy" part of it. Don't know for a fact, but early Hs could have had a University 4401 for the tweeter and SAHF for the squakwer just like Klipschorns of the same era. No idea what the woofers might have been in early ones. My guess would be EV or Stephens, just Klipschorns. Anyway, between the info Gil and Justin gave and my experience, you get an idea of the history of the Heresy.