Why doesn't Klipsch make a better sub?

[TheKillerTomato]

I'm very proud of my Klipsch RF-82's, RC-62, and RS-52's. I wanted to complete the system with an RW-12d. (Don't have the budget for the RT series) However, all the research I've done puts this sub middle of the road, for the price tag. I hear about port noise, and lackluster ouput compared to HSU and SVS subs in the same price range.

I'd love for someone to convince me that the RW-12d is comparable to the HSU VTF-3.3, which costs $699 as well, but so far I've found noone willing to argue that point. Am I off base here, or what?

When is the new line of Klipsch subs going to be available?

[Guest BobG]

The RW-12d is a new(ish) model and replaced the RW-12 adding digital control and a few other nice features.

It should be noted that the other subs you mention are larger in internal volume and it gets easier to offer performance as the cabinet size increases. The market today is very strong for small subs and we are always trying to keep our subs as small as possible while offering performance that we believe will make people happy. However, we understand that some people are not bothered by large cabinets. There are lots of subs that choose a different formula for success than we choose.

If you want a sub with higher performance from Klipsch, try the RSW-10d or one of our RT subs.

[TheKillerTomato]

The RW-12d is a new(ish) model and replaced the RW-12 adding digital control and a few other nice features.

It should be noted that the other subs you mention are larger in internal volume and it gets easier to offer performance as the cabinet size increases. The market today is very strong for small subs and we are always trying to keep our subs as small as possible while offering performance that we believe will make people happy. However, we understand that some people are not bothered by large cabinets. There are lots of subs that choose a different formula for success than we choose.

If you want a sub with higher performance from Klipsch, try the RSW-10d or one of our RT subs.

Thanks, Bob.

It may simply be that my listening area requires more output, as opposed to nice features and a small box. I understand that there are engineering choices to be made when designing all Klipsch products - I just wish you had decided differently!

You guys ought to design a flat out boomer. Low extension, very high output. Put it in a 5' x 5' foot cabinet, weighing close to 300 pounds, and market it as the Klipsch Slabcracker - guaranteed to cause fissures in your slab and/or footing.

[TheEAR]

For what is it worth Klipsch speakers and subs are about high output VS extension.And since the size limitations are real they optimise their subs to perform from 25Hz up at high SPL.

It is a design choice and not a flaw they overlooked. I havethree RSW and two RT subs and they are very good products ,but for extreme extension(16hz and below) I have my JL and larger Velo subs. Now as far as size goes the JL are as compact or more even than Klipsch subs,so why can they almost do it all...use of extreme amp/driver configurations...this equals much higher price in turn.

[MrMcGoo]

I appluad the decision of Klipsch to favor quality output over extension. Most folks do not hear much below 30 Hz unless the SPL is extremely high. The Klipsch subs perform well in the audible zone with both music and movies.

Many of the subs that go below 20 Hz do not do very well with music. I have 2 Klipsch RSW subs that are solid down to 20 Hz. There is plenty of shake between the two subs and the RF-7s. My system is excellent with both movies and music.

Commercial theater subwoofers tend not to do much below 30 Hz. The sound design engineers know this.

A pair of Klpsch THX subs will keep up with the vast majority of systems down to 19 Hz. The THX sus will fill big rooms and two subs even out the peaks and nulls to some extent. You can add a Velodyns SMS-1 for equalization.

Bill

[h2only]

If you want a sub with higher performance from Klipsch, try the RSW-10d or one of our RT subs. 

I agree, I recently bought an RSW-10d, for the price range area of around 1100.00 and considering the size of the unit itself, its an amazing sub.

[TheKillerTomato]

If you want a sub with higher performance from Klipsch, try the RSW-10d or one of our RT subs.

I agree, I recently bought an RSW-10d, for the price range area of around 1100.00 and considering the size of the unit itself, its an amazing sub.

My tv/living room is not optimally designed for home theater. It is 20 x 20, with 12' walls that cathedral to approximately 18 ' at the center, with one wall open to a large dining room/entryway with 14' ceilings, and the back wall being half open to the kitchen.

Will the 10d be enough? I'm really needing high output.

[westcott]

I'm very proud of my Klipsch RF-82's, RC-62, and RS-52's. I wanted to complete the system with an RW-12d. (Don't have the budget for the RT series) However, all the research I've done puts this sub middle of the road, for the price tag. I hear about port noise, and lackluster ouput compared to HSU and SVS subs in the same price range.

I'd love for someone to convince me that the RW-12d is comparable to the HSU VTF-3.3, which costs $699 as well, but so far I've found noone willing to argue that point. Am I off base here, or what?

When is the new line of Klipsch subs going to be available?

I have provide a link of some sub comparisons. It is a real life test setup in a room. The gentleman who conducted the tests is well respected and the RSW15 is right at the top. The Genelec and Velodyne 1812 cost close to $10K and are the size of a small car!!

They are some of the most underrated subs on the market except by those who own them. It is not all about getting low but how cleanly and flatly you can do it without excessive distortion (97dB @20Hz is nothing to sneeze at and most subs will barely do that over their entire range). If you take the cabinet size in consideration, Klipsch has built some amazing subs!

http://members.cox.net/fabulousfrankie/Nousaine.htm

Granted, some of the newer subs by SVS and Velodyne are missing but hopefully Sound and Vision will have tests run on them soon. I would also like to see the results for Martin Logans Descent and Depth subs. I was very impressed when I auditioned them. VERY clean and real wall shakers.

[TheKillerTomato]

I appreciate the link to the tests, but their last update was over a year ago, and I'm really curious how the RW-12 would stack up. I think output wise, it would be right up there.

I'm trying to find an RSW-10d to audition, and then see if it fits the budget.

I am mainly a home theater guy, but with my upgraded system, listening to music is much more enjoyable. I want a high output room shaker, and I want to stay with Klipsch if possible.

[Cwwrig]

I recently went through the same thing. I wanted a sub, and found that Klipsch was lacking...reputation-wise. One reason I decided not to get a Klipsch sub is my local dealer is awful, I mean that. He told me he would sale me his used RSW-10 with a full warranty since he had not ran it through the system. He said that he wanted to upgrade his subwoofer. I thought well I will come in and listen to a 12" he had in stock (just to make sure I liked the sound). I went and there the 12" beauty was ...right in front of my eyes. It was not hooked up though. He said he was not going to hook it up for me to listen to. He had a BIG project to work on and did not have time to hook up this sub because it would not be worth his time. He literally told me that selling me a sub wouldnot put food on the table. You think I wanted to buy from him? Anyway just wanted to vent there. Thankfully I already knew how good Klipsch speakers were, otherwise I would have probably been turned off from the brand altoghether.

I ended up ordering a HSU VTF3.2- I will give you my impressions after I get it later this week. Unless of course you're sticking with Klipsch no matter what.

I have RF-15's, RC-62, and soon to be RS-35's if someone I bought off of here on the forum has already shipped them.

[TheEAR]

Klipsch subs are underrated. My five Klipsch top of the line subs provide bass so clean,defined and shake the room big time,and the slam is scary.

Problem is thetre are too many newbies pushing things they know first. Klipsch ranks as one of the better companies making subs.

One thing to remember the list posted above in the link is outdated and too many contenders not even present.

[Jay481985]

I recently went through the same thing. I wanted a sub, and found that Klipsch was lacking...reputation-wise. One reason I decided not to get a Klipsch sub is my local dealer is awful, I mean that. He told me he would sale me his used RSW-10 with a full warranty since he had not ran it through the system. He said that he wanted to upgrade his subwoofer. I thought well I will come in and listen to a 12" he had in stock (just to make sure I liked the sound). I went and there the 12" beauty was ...right in front of my eyes. It was not hooked up though. He said he was not going to hook it up for me to listen to. He had a BIG project to work on and did not have time to hook up this sub because it would not be worth his time. He literally told me that selling me a sub wouldnot put food on the table. You think I wanted to buy from him? Anyway just wanted to vent there. Thankfully I already knew how good Klipsch speakers were, otherwise I would have probably been turned off from the brand altoghether.

I ended up ordering a HSU VTF3.2- I will give you my impressions after I get it later this week. Unless of course you're sticking with Klipsch no matter what.

I have RF-15's, RC-62, and soon to be RS-35's if someone I bought off of here on the forum has already shipped them.

what a crap dealer, klipsch should drop them or penalize them

[Fish]

I had my 15 before I read the review,I already knew it's a great sub for my purposes which are mostly music/concerts.The rsw15 has been the one sub I've never wanted to replace,it keeps pace very well with solid kick like a mule bass.Sure,Klipsch makes good subs,I've had a few other"good subs"by interenet standards,I kept the Klipsch.

[Jay481985]

If you want to name them, can you please do? So we can be better guided.

[Cwwrig]

Two things:

First I will have to say based off of what I have read the RSW, RT, and THX Klipsch subs are great subs. But they are out of what most of us pay for subs (I'm generalizing here). I am merely saying that the consensus on most forums is that Klipsch sub's (the basic RW-10/RW-12's) are good subs but for the price you pay you can get more bang for your buck elsewhere. Like I said earlier I love Klipsch speakers, in fact I just sold my old set up to purchase my long awaited Klipsch system. I just think the sub was one part of the system that did not carry high reviews.

Second, Jay if you are wanting me to name the dealer I had a problem with I don't mind at all.

SATELLITE DIRECT

6415 HIXSON PIKE
HIXSON , TN 37343
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

I very seriously doubt anyone buys Klipsch off of him. As an addition to the story. After he told me he was not going to hook up the sub...he more or less acted like me buying his used RSW-10 off of him was not worth his time. Mind you taking 5 mins to hook up a sub could of provided him with a potential profit. Anyway he acted like he was doing me a big favor by selling me his used sub and I told him I could get competitve prices on newer models. He told me that the sub MSRP was XX and he was selling it for X. I told him most people don't pay MSRP ...those of us who know our stuff don't unless something is brand spankin new. He looked at me like I was a fool for even alluding to the fact a speaker would sell under MSRP. I concluded that this guy probably gets the occassional rich person who walks in and says I want a theater and I want the best stuff in it. Therefore he thinks we all do that. I'm done venting now...wow I feel much better. In closing I will say if I have to buy off someone local it won't be him I will drive an hour to GA and make a purchase with no regrets knowing he will not get any of my hard made $$.

[TheKillerTomato]

I'm not giving up on the prospect of picking up an RW-12d. I can get it for $300 less than the HSU. I'll take my "Finding Nemo" DVD to the store when I get a chance and try out the Darla(?) scene, along with some select CD's.

Thanks for all of your input, fellas.

[Cwwrig]

Let us know your thoughts after you test it. Might I suggest bringing War of the Worlds and watch the lighting scene in the beginning (approx 15 min.) after the movie starts.

[westcott]

I'm not giving up on the prospect of picking up an RW-12d. I can get it for $300 less than the HSU. I'll take my "Finding Nemo" DVD to the store when I get a chance and try out the Darla(?) scene, along with some select CD's.

Thanks for all of your input, fellas.

A few of my favorite subwoofer test CDs and DVDs are "Polar Express", "Saving Private Ryan", and "Hotel California on the Hell Freezes Over CD".

The Polar Express chapter when the train pulls up to the front of the house is just incredible and will shake every wall in the house. As for the movie, well, thats another matter.

[michael hurd]

If you want another good source for a subwoofer test, go to the Danley Labs website and download the Fireworks recording, there is content down to DC on it. About 3 minutes and 20 seconds in there is a big burst of low frequency energy..... beware as most subs will not take it at all.... especially ported ones, unless they have a high pass in which case they should not bottom out.

It is a .zip file that is 25 megs, before unpacking. You must have high speed and winRAR to unpack it, at that point you can burn it to a CD. Beware that it features a dynamic range of 70 DB, and is very quiet until the big bangs occur. There is a warning at the site as well...[]

[TheEAR]

Not good to point a recording that cannot be reproduced properly by 99.999% of sub owners. [] Unless you have a fan sub that is good down to 1Hz!