scott0527 Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Until you hear what one of these tables is capable of your opinion is worthless.LOL Give me a break.My opinion is "worth" the same as yours or anyone else's in here. That's why it's called OPINION! WRONG! My opinion is worth something because I have acutually owned and listened to both of the tables. You have not. Therefore your opinion is worthless--complete nonsense. Again, your opinion of the new Thorens when compared with your old TD-125 is valid because you have OWNED both tables. If I chimed in about THAT comparison my "opinion" would be as worthless as your "opinion" of the relative merits of the TD-124. OK fair enough, I "get" that. But I was referring to the technology comparisons in general not the subjectivities of the human ear.[*-)] My old 125 was all stock, had noisy electronics and as you know, didn't have the same type of arm-board design as the 124. Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing that YOU believe that your TD-124 has superior sonics to any of the other decks you've owned. I wouldn't question that. I'm just trying to rationalize it with some sort of physical quantifiable characteristics.If it's not measurable or quantifiable in some way, then IT TOO can be complete nonsense.To what specifically do YOU attribute it's superiority? Besides the arm and plinth are you making any other major changes?? WOT The TD125 is a belt drive, suspended table that has nothing in common with the TD124. My point, as you can see from Allan's enthusiam, many people buy these tables because they absolutely love the sound. It has nothing to do with their retro looks, they truly believe that they can't be beat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WopOnTour Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 The TD125 is a belt drive, suspended table that has nothing in common with the TD124. My point, as you can see from Allan's enthusiam, many people buy these tables because they absolutely love the sound. It has nothing to do with their retro looks, they truly believe that they can't be beat. Yea, that's true. It probably didn't have all that much in common with the 124 after all. It was 25 years ago, so long ago I cant even remember that it was't even a rim drive, but I've had numerous old Garrards as well that definately were.But once again, I'm just trying to figure out the appeal based on SOMETHING other than someone (or even a large cluster of individuals) saying they just sound better. I'm not attacking anyone, just trying to understand it based on some physical attributes. Maybe I've missed a large number of older threads on this and the animosity is based on "Sigh... Not again" type forum attitudes. I'll do a search. But the archival search features in here are poor IMO. WOT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted April 1, 2007 Author Share Posted April 1, 2007 I own a modern table, a Basis 2001. It's a great table for everything but my old mono jazz LPs. I wouldn't trade it for 10 TD124's. I've heard how old mono jazz LPs sound on the 124 which is why I'm buying one for my other system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WopOnTour Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 I own a modern table, a Basis 2001. It's a great table for everything but my old mono jazz LPs. I wouldn't trade it for 10 TD124's. I've heard how old mono jazz LPs sound on the 124 which is why I'm buying one for my other system.That makes total sense to me. Good luck on your quest. If you dont have any luck and you're perhaps willing to drop down a notch, I have a minty Garrard Type A I'd be willing to part with at a very reasonable cost. PM me if interested. WOT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 I built my system around listening to old mono (and some stereo) jazz LPs (it does OK with jazz CDs too). I know what my system can and CAN NOT do and I'm OK with the shortcomings. I don't listen to rock, pop or classical music, so the fact that my hi-fi pretty much blows (and it does!) when playing hard rock or classical is of little concern. But goodness gracious sakes alive you should hear those old jazz records!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted April 1, 2007 Author Share Posted April 1, 2007 I built my system around listening to old mono (and some stereo) jazz LPs (it does OK with jazz CDs too). I know what my system can and CAN NOT do and I'm OK with the shortcomings. I don't listen to rock, pop or classical music, so the fact that my hi-fi pretty much blows (and it does!) when playing hard rock or classical is of little concern. But goodness gracious sakes alive you should hear those old jazz records!!! I've heard Allan's system more than once which is why I'm going this route. The first time I heard Sonny Rollins, I'm An Old Cowhand on that Thorens, I KNEW that table was made for jazz records!! You just can't recreate that sound on any modern table I've ever heard. However, I listen to more than just jazz so it'll be really nice to have both options!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott0527 Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 I built my system around listening to old mono (and some stereo) jazz LPs (it does OK with jazz CDs too). I know what my system can and CAN NOT do and I'm OK with the shortcomings. I don't listen to rock, pop or classical music, so the fact that my hi-fi pretty much blows (and it does!) when playing hard rock or classical is of little concern. But goodness gracious sakes alive you should hear those old jazz records!!! I've heard Allan's system more than once which is why I'm going this route. The first time I heard Sonny Rollins, I'm An Old Cowhand on that Thorens, I KNEW that table was made for jazz records!! You just can't recreate that sound on any modern table I've ever heard. However, I listen to more than just jazz so it'll be really nice to have both options!! Excluding the difference between mono and stereo, why would a table, arm, cartridge reproduce one style of music any better than another? The table, arm, cartridge is merely reproducing whatever is in the record groove. If it can do jazz well, why wouldn't it do anything well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted April 1, 2007 Author Share Posted April 1, 2007 I have no idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 I have no idea. It's more the SPU than the table, I think. And the SPU only works with big, heavy tonearms. And the big, heavy tonearms seem to have a synergy with old rim drive tables with massive platters.. Put them all together and it's a match made in heaven--especially when listening to acoustic music that is almost all midrange (jazz fits this description perfectly). Add in the McIntosh tube gear (warm, lush uber-rich midrange) and Cornwalls (THE best speaker I have ever owned when it comes to reprducing horns and female vocals--JAZZ!) and you have a system built for jazz vinyl. When I put a rock record on the bass sounds downright tubby and the highs are SHREIKING--it makes me want to run out of the room! Chamber music does fine, but big, complex orcherstal music sounds a bit muddy--not TERRIBLE as with rock, but still not great. But so what? Like I said, I spent YEARS looking for the perfect combonation for the music I listen to. And I found it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WopOnTour Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Well I'll just defer my own worthless opinion until I can hear an SPU equipped 124 for myself I guess. (not very likely if all it's good for is mono-jazz) In the meantime, in my quest for more hard data on the Thortofon combo I did manage to find this 2006 write-up in Stereophile.It's not like I'm blindly agreeing with some of their more subjective positions and comments either of course, - But it was an interesting read none-the-less http://www.stereophile.com/artdudleylistening/506listen/index.html *** out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Hmmm... well I have one and it spins jazz, classical, and classic rock, and I think it does all 3 pretty well on my system. This is with a SME 3009/Denon DL-103, and to my ears it is purely magical. I am amazed by this almost 50 year old table every time I fire it up. ymmv... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshnich Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 It is an interesting question. What properties make this combo superb for mono jazz but less than ideal for other music. I am assuming that this combo must also sound good with other acoustic music and voices. I have only heard a TD 124 once and it must have needed some work or maybe it wasnt set up correctly. It sounded wonderful but there was a fair bit of rumble. If you could ignore the rumble, It was unbelievable . Again it must have needed some work. Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Mine was rebuilt by someone who has rebuilt many, and is dead quiet with no rumble or motor noise. Gary, I hope you find one bro! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 While not as "quiet" as most modern high-end tables, a TD-124 if properly rebuilt and placed in a proper plinth is VERY quiet!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 did you find one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted April 3, 2007 Author Share Posted April 3, 2007 Found one (thanks to Scott). Now I just need an SME3009 and the SPU. Those will surely cost more than the table. Probably a lot more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 Congrats G! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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