HarryO Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 I would wholeheartedly support any law that could stop this type thing. The problem I see here is there is probably(I'm sure) a law against what the guy did. It would be hard to enforce or intervene in this type of attack. In reality I doubt you could enforce any law that has the criminals holding all the cards. The law abiding majority of people on this earth would never contemplate an act of this kind. In my most sincere feelings I support your thinking totally in a perfect world. Personally, I'll wait on perfect before I could support this type of regulation. But then there would be no need for this endless debate. This type of debate is probably going on locally in the VT area right now. I believe evil is evil even in the mentally challenged. There is and has always been the fight between good and evil. God and good will prevail. I pray!! HarryO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldenough Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 HarryO; God and good will prevail. I pray!! You can always find people willing to pray, it's much harder to find people who are willing to put in time and effort to actually change things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xdetroitx Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 It seems like this all happened over a bad break-up. The problem today is are youth are raised with such a spoiled sense of entitlement and are hardly ever told no. They get what they want any time they want it. Then when they hit the real world and learn rejection and that they can not always get their way they can not handle it. So, stuff like this happens. By age 12 I knew rejection and that life was not a walk in the park. My girlfriend dumps me, I call a few friends and get drunk; not purchase a gun and kill 30 people because I could not have my way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 ...You can always find people willing to pray, it's much harder to find people who are willing to put in time and effort to actually change things. Hallelujah! [Y] (and I am not even a Christian.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryO Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 I'm sure if I had known the guy, recognized his symptoms, and felt he was a danger to anyone including himself I would have intervened. I didn't know the guy, never met the guy, and didn't have the opportunity to intervene, so I WILL do what I can at this point. I have and will continue to pray for families and friends for healing and help from above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 ... have and will continue to pray for families and friends for healing and help from above. I'll do what I can from down here. [ip] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldenough Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 HarryO .My apologies if my last comments offended..You are obviously more astute and concientious than a number of people who were surrounding this individual, apparently his symptons were there to be seen, but it seems that those who could have possibly made a difference in his life were unsuccesful. Also i'm sure after the last similar event in Pennsylvania there were plenty of prayers,( given the community it happened in ) but that did'nt avert this massacre. Just remember as we talk here that there is another kid somewhere wondering how he can top this latest event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 HarryO .My apologies if my last comments offended.... Just remember as we talk here that there is another kid somewhere wondering how he can top this latest event. Was this kid's intent on trying to top anything? [^o)] I don't have access to Mass Media right now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryO Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 I was not offended in the least. I feel discussing this is one form of understanding and even possibly enlightening ones thinking to the point of averting something like this. It's just not one jilted young man we have to be concerned about. It's the mother freaking out and killing her kids, client losing his case and trying to kill his atty, or just the criminal killing a taxi driver over $5.00. We had a freak here in Indy not that long ago killed his 7 kids. Apparently all who knew him saw no signs of this being a possibility or even a thought in that direction. What do we do in a case like that? What type of intervention is available? I'm not saying prayers are the answer to this problem. But then again, how much more could be happening without them? Maybe someone didn't pray for him. I doubt seriously my prayers are going to escalate this problem. I know they can be calming and give hope. Personally. HarryO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldenough Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Tkd, no that was not his intent, but it could be the next one's. Sorry for the mis-understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 ... I'm not saying prayers are the answer to this problems...Maybe someone didn't pray for him.... Fwiw, I appreciate prayer helping the folks that are in pain. Imo, blaming folks that didn't pray for this killer is better left to God...I mean no disrespect for your Religious beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Tkd, no that was not his intent, but it could be the next one's. Sorry for the mis-understanding. Thank you for the clarification. My point was that very rarely are situations like this one trying to "Top" another. I did the Google and couldn't find that information. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryO Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 No disrespect taken. I appreciate all views. I respect all of our rights. This is still America! Rights are hard to put up with sometimes. But this is what makes America great. I think it is so nice we can discuss a senseless tradgedy and try to think of a solution or a "patch" no matter how tough it is or how much we differ in our opinions. We do agree that something needs done. It is easier when the moment is fresh and burning our hearts. Let us hope the solutions are correct. I hope there are answers that can make sense. This hurts me. I see the faces and my eyes tear up, my chest tightens up, my throat feels like it is going to swell shut. I feel helpless, want to scream at this waste, and want it fixed NOW. HarryO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 I also appreciate all of the views stated on this thread. I am about to listen/watch a Dido DVD on my Klipsch HT and wait for my wife to come home. May peace and good thoughts be with you and your families during this thoughtful time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMays Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 It's always easy being the "Monday morning querterback"...Hindsight is always 20/20. This guy wrote some very distubing things but how do you pick this guy out? I bet there are WAY more similar people that would fall into his "profile" then any of us realize, but would never do anything like this. Most people who commit these types of crimes are actually farely intellegent people. You talk to the neighbor and what is the comment..."I never thought he would do this, he was just your every day guy". Oh well, I wish this life made more sense. We just have to do the best we can with what little we have. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mungkiman Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 If there were a reliable test to determine whether a newborn wouldgrow up to be a killer, and the newborn tested positive, should thenewborn be killed? Unfortunately, I think we have a long ways to go before we come up with a fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Kaiser...ok, I see what you mean now! Yeah, I fear that too many have internalized the "I am a victim" mentality that they do not realize that they can make a difference - however small, and even so it is worth trying. And they don't have to stand up and take anyone on directly...they can go and persist in asking for help from parents, teachers, or other figures. And that is a tragedy. I just reject the notion that we have to have someone else do it for us (but this is not to say you can't employ help!). It just doesn't absolve each individual of their responsibility to try to see that reasonable values are maintained where they live. No heroics, just common sense responsibility. And as far as if he got a gun legally, who cares. I bought a car legally, but that does not imply that there is anything wrong with the process because I choose to go and get drunk and drive! But it does make me responsible (or irresponsible for abdicating my responsibilities). And the solution is not with anyone else. And it is EASY to make lots of a pipe bombs from garden supply components or to make impulse weapons from a microwave oven. The list is endless. I reject the notion that some carte blanch banning of any item will solve a problem. And yup, I may inflict harm! But I might do so at any time in a myriad number of ways. aaaaahhhh... MAS Alway's the voice of REASON .....[] thank you We are each responsible, whether we choose to be or not. And the answer is not in telling me or others what we may own or not. Nor in expecting someone else to take care of the problem for me. We have choices, and we either make good ones or we abdicate our responsibility. But in any case, we are judged by our actions. And we are responsible for them as well. And I reject the notion that someone else can decide whether I or someone else will act out or how I will act. Just as I cannot do so in regards to the other person. And I fear that this course is the one that too many will again be too quick to grasp in their 'after the fact' emotional reaction and their desire to find a simple solution directed "at others". I mean, passing more laws against being stupid and acting irresponsibly will not make such actions more rare. Its a shame, but its time that we acknowledge the fact. And 'they ' are not going to solve the problem for us. To the degree that it can be solved, WE will be the ones who do this via our own values and our own choices. But, it is amazing how we continue to look for a solution everywhere but where we are sitting. And the only person we each have control of is ourselves. We can establish standards, but we cannot insure that any individual will adhere to them. And to that degree, that is the price of living in a free society. And it is not a feature that I am willing to surrender simply because an individual can be stupid. But tune into Oprah tomorrow (Wednesday)! Her rep is at VaTech and they are going to discuss "Why did it happen?" and "What can we do?" I expect profound conclusions! Yeah, right. --------------------------------- People expect life to be safe, and to have certainty that it will always be so. Right... And for some reason we look for the solution each time an exceptional situation confronts us! Sorry guys, but this is just very simple to me. But that does not mean that I expect any simple answer as a 'solution'. I guess that I do not expect a simple solution. But neither do I find the reactionary desire to find some cosmic significance in an anomalous action. Nor do I look to establish mainstream general solutions based upon an anomalous action. But I listen to the infotainment masquerading as news, and I listen to the focused attention on the idiot Imus and watch as folks who have already established their racially motivated selves complain about everything but themselves and absolve themselves of all responsibility by virtue of abstractions. And it simply gets old. I mean, when was the last time you saw anyone being dragged in front of the Inquisition for referring to a "bleached blond bimbo"? All denigrating language can be a problem, regardless of who the target is. but sometimes it is also accurate! So no generalization is a valid basis for an absolute determination. And the only thing that seems to remain in common between the stupid actions of some, and the stupid solutions of others, is PEOPLE. And maybe I am jaded with reality, but I don't expect that to change any time soon! One is reminded of Twain's observation that "God somewhat overestimated his abilities when he created Man." Ya think? Be good to each other. I'm done.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 "And yup, I may inflict harm! But I might do so at any time in a myriad number of ways." If I have confused any with the statement, just like I might use self-deprecating humor as I am well aware of my capabilities, I am simply using 'myself' as an example of 'everyman' - that any person so inclined is capable of committing whatever act you most fear! ...Especially in the context of everything else that was written referring to individual responsibility. And it is easier to make myself he target rather than others who will simply respond defensively... If this has caused confusion, I am sorry....as it is hard to determine exactly how others interpret this stuff... [] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mungkiman Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 The anomolies seem to be the ones that people get hung up on, but they are also the hardest to change. Asresources become less plentiful, we will see a lot more violence. Itmight be easier to understand a war over oil or water, but it won't beany easier for the victims to find peace. Or for us to console them. Ifyou choose to pray, please consider praying for us all. I'm all I've got, and I'm not even in absolute control of myself, due to external influences, so the odds are indeed poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mungkiman Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 nice edit, mas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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