discusman Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 my wife said that i could buy something for xmas so i decided that i'd want to try tube amps .. nothing too expensive so from reading here i think i'm leaning towards the Antique Sound Labs. Now for my question ... i'm currently using an acurus A200FIVE amp and using my denon 3801 as pre's and chorus II speakers. This works pretty good for home theater and for 2 channel listening i'm using a denon HDCD player hooked in to the Ext. Input of the 3801 - so it bypasses all that surround stuff (i think) and it sounds pretty good. anyway, if i used a tube amp for my fronts using the same setup would i really hear a big difference listening to stereo and also, how does this affect the sound when watching movies. I guess what i'm trying to ask is - is it worth it? or should i just try to setup another system just for stereo listening. For all you tube lovers out there, please give me your opinion. thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundog Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 I found that a tube preamp into the direct input of my A/V receiver gave me the tube sound I desired and the power of transistors for bass. It is my understanding that if you use tubes the front end is very important. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems This message has been edited by soundog on 12-21-2001 at 11:28 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbr600 Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 Discusman, is tube amp worth it? I bought a ASL tube amp (entry level) not too long ago. What a sweet and warm sound! I think tube amp matches very well with horn speaker. The amp is the best $700 I ever spent . ------------------ Klipsch RF7 Klipsch RC7 Klipsch RS7 Denon 3802 ASL MG SI15DTS Acurus RL11 Acurus A200x3 AQ Slate Spr cables Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 First even though my wife says I am a know it all I have to admit that I do not know diddly about surround sound receivers etc. but.... I would be inclined to suggest that you begin by using a tube amp for straight 2 channel sound and if you like the result you can expand from there. I like the ASL line and use an AQ1003 with a pair of KLF30's. I am sure that there are many other comparable units in the same general price range. It occurs to me that a reasonable approach might be to buy a pair of ASL Wave 8 monoblocks and use your present control amp. If you like the sound then you could later use them to drive your surrounds and buy something along the lines of the 1003 to drive your fronts. On the other hand if you found that the Waves weren't your "cuppa" you'd only be out a couple of hundred bucks and you would have a pair of mono's that you could easily sell on Ebay for about 65% of your cost. All in all an inexpensive way to test the tubophile waters. About "Burn-in" I am still unconvinced about break-in regarding speakers as I used my KLF's for several months and they sounded glorious the first time I fired them up and stayed that way until I treated them to my 1003 at which point they sounded even better. I have now been using my 1003 for a few months and NOW I am beginning to suspect that there is more than a grain of truth to the idea that some audio components improve with use. FWIW I have noticed that my system sounds smoother and more satisfying lately and I seem to have less need to ramp up the volume in order to "Hear" the performance. It may well be that tubes sound somewhat better after some use but it is also undeniably true that at some point the sound quality of any tube will begin to deteriorate as the cathode ages. I think it is going to be a hell of a ride between start and finish and anyway I've a spare set of tubes. Given that a set of output tubes treated with a little consideration should last between 3000-5000 hours of use, I think I will just listen and to hello with worrying about using them up! ------------------ It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca. 1304 BCE) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 discusman, I have not tried to mix my tube powered 2 channel stereo with my HT setup, so I should probably not reply. BUT if you want to listen to a pair of tiny amps driving a pair of Khorns, with a pool table for acoustic treatment in an unfinished basement, you are more than welcome to come over. ------------------ Ed W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted December 22, 2001 Share Posted December 22, 2001 I'd take ole Ed up on it if I were you. It's not often you get to hear some of the gear he has managed to acquire in the last month or so in ONE place! Ole Ed now has a pair of 2A3 Moondog monoblocks, a mid-90s vintage Cary preamp, a passive device, a quite rare AE3 "DJH" version preamp that has upgraded parts and tube rectification, and some interesting valve options. The only thing ole Ed hasnt gotten up to snuff yet is his analog source... give him time. Of course, this is all hooked up to his Khorns. So take him up on his offer! kh ps- Help him carry that table upstairs! His wife wants it in the living room but she cant help lift the beast! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discusman Posted December 22, 2001 Author Share Posted December 22, 2001 Thanks all ... and Happy Holidays to everyone in this forum. Soundog ... your suggestion sounds like a great idea but would you still get the 'tubey' sound that everyone is looking for?. any particular tube preamp you might recommend?. Crb600 ... your setup closely matches mine. was the ASL really a big improvement over the acurus? where did you buy your ASL amp?. lynm ... i looked up the ASL Wave 8 and wow - that's pretty cheap (why?). have you actually had a chance to audition them? where did you buy your ASL from? Edster00 ... thank you for the offer. mobile ... you convinced my. i'm asking edster00 if i can come over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundog Posted December 22, 2001 Share Posted December 22, 2001 Of course, I would recommend what I have - the Dynaco PAS4 - an updated version of an old Dynaco design. Unfortunately, it is no longer in production although it does appear occasionally on eBay for about $500. - half of its original price and usually requires some tube upgrades to optimize its performance. Old EICO and Dynaco preamps on eBay are another way to go, although these usually require some upgrading of the capacitors and other parts, as well as the tubes. However, tube preamps are lower maintenance than tube amps. Early stage amplification imprints more strongly than does later stage amplification. So if its the tube sound - lack of transistor artificiality and "metallic harshness" you desire, then tubes upfront are a must. Whether you also choose to use a tube amp is a matter of choice. Transistors tend to be better able to provide a powerful bass punch. Purists will bi-amp with tubes for the mids and highs and transistors for the woofer. There are some modern day tube preamps on the market but I don't know which one I would recommend - I'd have to research it. You could always get the tube preamp first and see how it worked - you could always add the tube amp later. I even run two channels of my SACDs through the tube preamp as I do my LPs. I have to adjust the volume to correspond to the other channels of my A/V receiver. Actually I now leave the preamp at the same setting always and just switch between CDs, LPs and SACDs. I control the volume from my receiver. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbr600 Posted December 22, 2001 Share Posted December 22, 2001 Discusman: I posted my personal opinion a few weeks ago under topic "Njoe Tjoeb 4000 vs. MSB Link III" in "2 channel audio" forum. I just get into tube stuff. There are a lot of knowledgeable members here know much more than I do. I bought mine from eaudionet.com. For ASL gear, I believe their price is a little bit cheaper than divertech.com plus eaudionet is in US. The guy I talked to is very knowledgeable and nice. He told me that I can return the amp if I don't like it. For music listening, I use ASL, CD player and RF-7 (two channel only). I would like to keep it simple for now. For movie, I actually use another pair of front speaker plus center and surround for now. I also use the "multi room" output on Denon receiver to ASL amp. It allow me to listen some DVD, TV via tube amp as well. ------------------ Klipsch RF7 Klipsch RC7 Klipsch RS7 Denon 3802 ASL MG SI15DTS Acurus RL11 Acurus A200x3 AQ Slate Spr cables Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted December 22, 2001 Share Posted December 22, 2001 discusman Yes the Wave 8's are indeed very inexpensive. They are manufactured in China and imported into North America by Divergent Technologies which is located in Kitchener Ontario. I auditioned them at The Audio Room in Calgary and the little b*ggers blew me away. I ultimately decided to go with the AQ1003DT because I lacked a preamp and by the time I bought the Waves and a preamp I would have been spending only about C$200 less than the cost of the AQ which has more power and which better suited the physical setup in my listening room,(decent size room but very limited shelving space). The Wave 8 was originally called the AV 8. There are a few reviews available on the net under these names. There are not a lot of dealers around but they can be purchased from dealers in both the U.S. and Canada or directly from the distributor. I got the name of my dealer by sending an email to Divergent. ------------------ It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca. 1304 BCE) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aab3rd Posted December 22, 2001 Share Posted December 22, 2001 Along these same lines, I am wondering how you can hook a tube amp and a SS amp to the same speakers. This is what I want to do. I have a Parasound pre/pro/tuner and a Marantz MM9000 SS amp. I want to get a Tube amp to power my speakers for music and use the Marantz for HT with the SAME speakers (klf 20s). Can both amps be hooked up to the same speakers? Should I get an integrated tube amp and run the CD player through it for music? What is the best way to accomplish this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbr600 Posted December 22, 2001 Share Posted December 22, 2001 I'm thinking about doing the same thing. Two amps share a pair of speakers. Connect a pairs peaker to two amps at same time using speaker cable is definately not good. The fuse in my amp was blown one time when I accidently turned on both amps. I am searching a "AMP Selector". Maybe "Speaker Selector" will work as well. However, I guess it may affect sound quality by going through another box. ------------------ Klipsch RF7 Klipsch RC7 Klipsch RS7 Mission MS773E Denon 3802 ASL MG SI15DTS Acurus RL11 Acurus A200x3 Cambridge Audio D300 AQ Slate Spr cables Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aab3rd Posted December 22, 2001 Share Posted December 22, 2001 I have found a few items that might do this. Niles DPS-1.......can only handle up to 14ga wire http://nilesaudio.com Audioplex AB-T.....spring clip connections http://audioplex.com Bryston speaker switcher...five way binding posts http://www.bryston.ca Will a speaker selector work in reverse? If so this bryston would be best. This message has been edited by aab3rd on 12-22-2001 at 03:53 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discusman Posted December 23, 2001 Author Share Posted December 23, 2001 After reading lynnm's post i decided to call wen-li at eAudionet and here's what he said comparing the MGSI15-DTS vs the AQ1003DT ... "The MG SI 15 DTS can be played at either Triode mode at 5W or Pentode mode at 15W, while the AQ1003DT is mainly played at 30W Pentode mode. Pentode mode is push-pull amp, similar to Class AB solid state amp. The Triode mode is similar to solid state Class A amp. The triode mode will be my choice for your loudspeakers. You will enjoy sweeter sound, very musical, and very clean music." Now he sells both and the AQ1003DT cost more but being an honest and knowledgeable fellow he's convinced me to go for the MGSI15 DTS model. Heck, he even has a trade up policy ... I will order first thing monday. Now - where can i learn more about tubes like how to care for them ... cleaning or other maintenance. Thanks all for all your replies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aab3rd Posted December 23, 2001 Share Posted December 23, 2001 Follow up on the Bryston Speaker selector switch. Email from Bryston said that their speaker switch will not work in reverse i.e. 2 amps to on pair of speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted December 23, 2001 Share Posted December 23, 2001 he is right about the triode mode, Here is a list of the first things that come to mind: Don't ever play with the amps when they are on, Don't touch the tubes while they are hot, Try not to touch the glass at all since the finger oil is not good for them, Plan on buying another pair of tubes in about 1 to 3 years depending on all sorts of things, When the sound starts to seem a little brittle or harsch, it is almost always one of the tubes, so plan to have a spare, Begin to question every measurement used with stereos as they can no longer guide you, Kids will go right for the tubes when they see them, A very solid base (think turntable vibration isolation platform) is good for them, The more ventilation the better (think 3' of air around them), Try different interconnects if you can (think thin silver instead of thick copper) Some people swear that leaving them on all the time is best (seems to be helping a tube i thought was going bad) Mobile homeless thinks that any form of surge protection can degrade the dynamics (my jury is still out, leaving them with surge protection scares me too much to even try) If you can get the measurements on a specific tube, you can match it with the measurements from another one and they will sound better together Hang out at the tube forum at the audio asylum and while you will not understand what they are saying, you will realize that you made the right choice! ------------------ Colin's Music System Cornwall 1s & Klipsch subs; lights out & tubes glowing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted December 23, 2001 Share Posted December 23, 2001 Heh...like that one, Colin. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discusman Posted December 23, 2001 Author Share Posted December 23, 2001 hey colin ... thanks for the list and definitely a good start for me. just printed it out so it's right in front of my computer. hope i don't like it too much or i'll have to sell all of my ss amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbr600 Posted December 24, 2001 Share Posted December 24, 2001 Just order two pairs of Tungsram 12AX7 from AA. I believe the price is reasonable. It doesn't say if those are matching pair or not. How do I know / test? Is it important? I want to upgrade the ineterconnect for my tube amp. Any recommedation? DH Labs BL-1 good? ------------------ Klipsch RF7 Klipsch RC7 Klipsch RS7 Mission MS773E Denon 3802 ASL MG SI15DTS Acurus RL11 Acurus A200x3 Cambridge Audio D300 AQ Slate Spr cables Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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