Need help with RSW-15

[vman71]

I've read through some past posts on RSW-15 placement and have used that information for a starting point with the placement of my RSW-15. It currently sits 1-2" from the side wall and 12-13" from the back wall.

I have used U-571 for some good testing of the lows and feel that the lows are loose and not as deep as I think they should be. I'd like to tighten things up and see if better placement can help with making it sound deeper.

Attached is a picture of my set-up for visual reference. Thanks for the help!

[IndyKlipschFan]

A couple of observations..

1) Wow, nice room... Obviously.

2) You may want to play with the RSW 15 maybe 6 " from the rear maybe 6" from the side. Since the passive is forward and the PUSH of air is to the rear this may help in BOUNCING it a little better. (I know really technical here.) LOL

3) The settings on your Sunfire to the amp way up/ way down/ at + - 0? How about on the Sub itself?

4) Look at the cross over settings too, to your sub. What you have on your sub too crossed over at? Try this at 80 Htz. Do you have your fronts in "Movie Mode" crossed over at 80 Htz., too? Make sure sub is on, sends to the sub on etc etc. Cord to the sub is secure and in.. (I know, basics here)

5) I will tell you something you may not like to hear, but your Sunfire Pre amp has one problem in matching with subs. (Well, those subs that are NOT Sunfire subs.) Part of it, comes from the design that Bob Carver employs. While not quite as bad with Ultra 2 gear (THX Subs) , here is what he does. The trigger signal I will call it (output level) to your sub (signal strength) is lower than most Pre amps out there. A lot lower than Ultra 2 settings. His subs are "used to" this signal strength, that is how they are designed. But everyone elses performance suffers.

I ran into this problem myself. I LOVED the Sunfire TG IV.... Dreamed, drooled, everything about The Sunfire TG IV, BUT, like yourself... just not enough UMPH ! I solved this problem temporarily to prove the point by simply adding a boost to the signal with a small mixer. While this helped 70-80% to get me to sub "nirvana" this was still with the pre amp set turned up or down didn't matter it was quite frankly noisey! Too Boomy, not tight clear etc etc.

The solution from others in here, is a device that will actually help solve this problem 100%, tighten up your room, actually do some room correction to your seatting too.

Look up a product from Velodyne called SMS-1. I am extreemly serious here I feel 100% confident not only will you "find bass to shake your whole foundation" if you want it? It IS exactly what your looking for, and you can set it and go. (Even I can figure it out!) It self corrected my room, and just rocks! It boosts the signal, cleans it up to YOUR Room, and will provide to you with that experience I think your looking for.

SMS-1
Face it - bass is tough to get right in most listening environments because of the relationship between your subwoofer and the room it's placed in. Now you don't have to worry about it. The SMS-1, featuring Velodyne's revolutionary Digital Drive room correction software, provides all the tools you'll need to adapt ANY subwoofer to the anomalies of your room. With all the features of Digital Drive, including full DSP control, an on-screen display and 8-band digital parametric equalizer, you can see your subwoofer and room's unique characteristics on your TV and adjust the sub's performance accordingly. Presets enable you to tailor the bass to your listening tastes and source material. The SMS-1 won't turn your subwoofer into a Digital Drive sub, but it will get the best possible performance out of it. The SMS-1 comes in a slim, one unit high configuration.

Features

Automatic or Manual In-Room Bass Correction with Included Microphone

Full DSP Control

Customizable Listening Mode Factory Presets

Full Feature Remote Control

Works with ANY Subwoofer

8-band Digital Graphic/Parametric Equalizer

On-Screen Display

http://www.velodyne.com/velodyne/products/product.aspx?ID=15&sid=439b371e

I know maybe your not looking for another thing to buy, but it will 100% IMO solve any sub problem you may have, AND make it to ROCK YOUR WORLD.

[vman71]

Indy, my comments are in bold.

1) Wow, nice room... Obviously.

Thanks! It has been a few years in the making but I'm very happy with the results.

2) You may want to play with the RSW 15 maybe 6 " from the rear maybe 6" from the side. Since the passive is forward and the PUSH of air is to the rear this may help in BOUNCING it a little better. (I know really technical here.) LOL

I'll try that out and see how that sounds.

3) The settings on your Sunfire to the amp way up/ way down/ at + - 0? How about on the Sub itself?

Settings on the Sunfire are all the way up at 0. The volume dial on the sub is all the way up.

4) Look at the cross over settings too, to your sub. What you have on your sub too crossed over at? Try this at 80 Htz. Do you have your fronts in "Movie Mode" crossed over at 80 Htz., too? Make sure sub is on, sends to the sub on etc etc. Cord to the sub is secure and in.. (I know, basics here)

Unfortunately, the TGII is very limited on the xover freq. range to the sub (80-120). I have it set for 80Hz. On the Sunfire, I have the mains set for "full range/large" as I don't want to lose any of the extra bottom end from the KLF-20's. Check, check on all the connectivity.

5) I will tell you something you may not like to hear, but your Sunfire Pre amp has one problem in matching with subs. (Well, those subs that are NOT Sunfire subs.) Part of it, comes from the design that Bob Carver employs. While not quite as bad with Ultra 2 gear (THX Subs) , here is what he does. The trigger signal I will call it (output level) to your sub (signal strength) is lower than most Pre amps out there. A lot lower than Ultra 2 settings. His subs are "used to" this signal strength, that is how they are designed. But everyone elses performance suffers.

I ran into this problem myself. I LOVED the Sunfire TG IV.... Dreamed, drooled, everything about The Sunfire TG IV, BUT, like yourself... just not enough UMPH ! I solved this problem temporarily to prove the point by simply adding a boost to the signal with a small mixer. While this helped 70-80% to get me to sub "nirvana" this was still with the pre amp set turned up or down didn't matter it was quite frankly noisey! Too Boomy, not tight clear etc etc.

The solution from others in here, is a device that will actually help solve this problem 100%, tighten up your room, actually do some room correction to your seatting too.

Look up a product from Velodyne called SMS-1. I am extreemly serious here I feel 100% confident not only will you "find bass to shake your whole foundation" if you want it? It IS exactly what your looking for, and you can set it and go. (Even I can figure it out!) It self corrected my room, and just rocks! It boosts the signal, cleans it up to YOUR Room, and will provide to you with that experience I think your looking for.

Thanks for the recommendation, I'll keep an eye out for a used one. New ones are out of my price range. Until then, I try playing with the sub positioning (as much as I can) to see if I can get things to tighten up and go deeper. My room is pretty small for a 15" sub (15W x 20L x 8H), so I would think that it should be more than enough to rock that room.

[MrMcGoo]

vman,

You may be sitting in a null. Movement of the sub can easily help this. Since your mains are set as large, you could have a phase problem with your mains cancelling your subs output. There are several choices to deal with phase issues. First try the mains as small. Second, have another person flip the phase switch on the RSW-15, then listen to bass heave passages. Then rewind and flip the switch the other way.

The SMS-1 has a sweep the is output to your TV to see frequency response. You can change phase settings in fifteen degree increments. You can get phase spot on. The SMS-1 can tell you where the nulls are in the room, but it cannot fix them. You have to move either the sub or the listening position.

I had a null at my viewing position. I moved the RSW-15, added an RSW-12 and added the SMS-1. Bass is relatively even throughout the room and bass is very tight.

Bill

[sivadselim]

The volume dial on the sub is all the way up.

[:^)][:|][] WHY?

That shouldn't be necessary. At all.

Have you calibrated the system properly? Do you have the low-pass "disabled"?

[SWL]

vman,

You may be sitting in a null. Movement of the sub can easily help this. Since your mains are set as large, you could have a phase problem with your mains cancelling your subs output. There are several choices to deal with phase issues. First try the mains as small. Second, have another person flip the phase switch on the RSW-15, then listen to bass heave passages. Then rewind and flip the switch the other way.

The SMS-1 has a sweep the is output to your TV to see frequency response. You can change phase settings in fifteen degree increments. You can get phase spot on. The SMS-1 can tell you where the nulls are in the room, but it cannot fix them. You have to move either the sub or the listening position.

I had a null at my viewing position. I moved the RSW-15, added an RSW-12 and added the SMS-1. Bass is relatively even throughout the room and bass is very tight.

Bill

I use a Berringer Feedback Destroyer. It's cheaper than the SMS-1 at about $100.00 but not as user friendly from what I've read. I also had an RSW-15. I wanted more so after experimenting with room placement I added the BFD with room treatments (bass traps). I'm not 100% on the bass traps but the BFD can do some pretty cool things and be very effective. The "icing on the cake" was adding a second RSW-15 stacked on the other one. Headroom is awesome and slam is just what I needed without taking up any more floor space. By the way........very nice room!!

[wuzzzer]

I didn't realize they made a ceiling mount kit for your center channel! []

[vman71]

[:^)][:|][] WHY?

That shouldn't be necessary. At all.

Have you calibrated the system properly? Do you have the low-pass "disabled"?[]

This is why I posted my question.[]

I'm going to try the suggested things of:

- placement (6" from the side and back wall)

- settings on the Sunfire (mains set to large vs. small)

- settings on the sub (toggle the phase and low-pass)

Thanks for the suggestions!

[vman71]

I didn't realize they made a ceiling mount kit for your center channel! []

It is up there isn't it. LOL

I just had to angle it down towards the listening position to make it sound just right.

[sivadselim]

- settings on the sub (toggle the phase and low-pass)

If you have the subwoofer connected to your processor's LFE or sub-out, then leave the low-pass disabled; there is NO reason to "toggle" it. [*-)]

[IndyKlipschFan]

Again, there are any number of mixers that cost about 100 usd.

Certainly you can try this to get 80% there (Where most on here would be more than enough happy too!)

Just a helpful suggestion that you may want to try too. (To boost your signal pre amp to the sub.)

[vman71]

- settings on the sub (toggle the phase and low-pass)

If you have the subwoofer connected to your processor's LFE or sub-out, then leave the low-pass disabled; there is NO reason to "toggle" it. [*-)]

Thanks, I'll make sure it's set for that.

[freakadeak]

I am new to the forums, but not new to home theater. With my passion of home theater focusing on how to help the "average" joe get the biggest bang for the buck, you may try this old trick.

A lot of times we forget to use the simple environment techniques that we all started out with (you know before the meters and the gadgets.) Take your Subwoofer and place it in your seat (listening position.) Then crawl on the floor around the room till you feel the best bass. This is where you should place the sub.
I know it sounds funny, but t works 100% of the time.

Another observation on your beautiful room. is that your reflection points are not addressed. (that i can see from the picture anyway.) I tell a lot of folks you can spend $1000's on speakers but unless you tame your room, its worthless.

Hope that helps.

[freakadeak]

Sorry for another post. But I forgot to mention that those cavities you have for your speakers (although beautiful) will more than likely work against you. I think of bass like water. Turn you room on it ends and where ever the water escapes to first is the same place bass will go to.

If cost is not an object then you may want to treat the room with accustic panels and bass traps. IF like me you always look for the best DIY method, then you can do a lot with some basic insulation and accusticly transparent cloth.

[oldbuckster]

Fine set-up in a Great Room......Your a lucky man !!!!............I would try putting sub in another location, never liked the sound corner mounted, before I get dumped on, in my room, corner placing the sub gave me a boomyness I don't like, moved it out of there, and am happy with final results. That was my experience in my room, yours could be different............try moving it, it's free........who knows, it might work for you.......