Subwoofer Questions for TheEAR

[shelbydz28]

I have read many of your posts and you seem very knowledgeable. I would like to ask your advice on a subwoofer upgrade. I want to upgrade from a Klipsch RW-12d. I don't want to spend more than $2000. I have a rather large listening area – 2600 cubic ft with large openings into the remainder of the house. My system is the RF-83 system used for 50% movies, 50% 2.1 channel audio and I rarely listen to it at super high volume (but I wouldn't completely rule that possibility out). I care about special effect wow factor and musical accuracy along with frequency response equally, high dB would not be as important. I have narrowed it down to Klipsch RT-12d, Sunfire EQ Signature, and HSU VTF-3 HO or possibly a Velodyne DD-12. Feel free to add in any I have overlooked, although I can’t really go any larger in physical size than the HSU VTF-3 HO due to WAF and can’t spend more than $2,000. Which subwoofer should I get? Feel free to rate them in order if you like.

Thanks in advance, Doug

[jamesV]

Doug,

I also have the same setup as you and I'm in the market for a sub. You might want to take a look at Epik, http://www.epiksubwoofers.com/index.html. They are out of Crystal Lake, IL and seem to be growing quickly. I am looking at getting one in the near future, I might wait for the sealed 12" model.

James

[shelbydz28]

Thanks, I'll have a look at those Epik subs. Another sub I should add that is in contention is the Velodyne SPL-1500R.

Doug

[CECAA850]

http://www.edesignaudio.com/edv2/product_info.php?products_id=408

I don't think you can buy much more sub for $1600.00 (delivered) but it may not pass the WAF.

[shelbydz28]

but it may not pass the WAF.

That is an understatement. Looks awesome though.

[CECAA850]

Throw a doiley on it and tell her it's an end table. She'll never know the difference.

[CECAA850]

The ultimate in WAF and sound accuracy is an IB. Are you into a little DIY? There won't be a sub in the room for her to dislike and you'll have an extremely accurate sub that can also dig deeper than just about any box you can find. If a hole in your floor wall or ceiling is not a viable option, you'll need to continue your search of conventional subs.

[Colin]

I can't install an in-wall sub, but I would to know from the EAR, which subs have the most output at 20Hz compared to their price - in other words, which are the best values?

[CAS]

Oh my. That elemental doesn't look like a bad sub. I haven't heard any plausible reviews, however so I have no record of quality. It looks like a direct knockoff of the SVS PB-12+2 or Ultra 2. I can vouch for the brute strength of the +2 when it moves around furniture at 18Hz. I think it's still about $1200.

Careful how you use the SVS name around here though. []

[TheEAR]

Me voila,late but hey better than never. []

Since you say upgrade from an RW-12d (upgrading to me is more output and better extension mostly,in this case).

The choices around $2000 are two fold and to me,very clear(unless you must have small,then only JL Audio f113 can CLEARLY best the RT-12d). Keep in mind I own all the RSW and RT subs,all of em. And I also own the f112 and dual f113's. So A/B I did pit them many times and against smaller and much more capable subs too.

Ok now the most logical choice is the EPIK Conquest ,here the cabinet is large but far from HUGE,and weighs around a mere 200lbs. The ED sub will have slightly more OUTPUT at the cost of a 400lbs plus cabinet !!! You decide,the Epik or the ED,both are world beaters. They MOVE massive quantities of air and are musical.The myth of the small music sub,is a myth thrown by goofy would be audiophiles with little knowledge.

Me well,I have massive TC Sounds subs and am building huge EBS ported subs,larger than even the largest ED(twice the size in fact). But one thing is sure,you cannot best a very potent 18" in a ported optimal cabinet with a serious amp with a small sub. Even the mighty JL cannot do miracles,and it is THE finest compact sealed sub made.

Best value is always in a larger ported sub,as sealed have no reinforcement from the port and require a much more capable amp(money).

[TheEAR]

CAS,

I will take ED over SVS any day,price to price ED offers higher output,just as good extension and no less in sound quality. A good fellow AVS member Craig (Craigsub) has compared all the top dogs at home. His top dog,the big Elemental and a much less costly ED beats SVS subs,and no cheapo ones ).

SVS makes great subs,ED and Epik make OUTSTANING subs for the dollar. JL makes the best compact sealed,and exquisite fit and finish to top it all.

There are so many great choices today,its a near crime ...not to own one of these. And I aint no criminal,I will ortder all the subs I can fit home.

[CAS]

CAS,

I will take ED over SVS any day,price to price ED offers higher output,just as good extension and no less in sound quality.

That appears to be the trend; SVS is going the more compact, eq'd, single driver higher end way instead of the multi-driver bare bones box direction. I wouldn't say price to price on this one yet though as you can pick up a PB-12+2 now at a mere grand.

[TheEAR]

The only "higher end" from SVS are the Ultra series ,the built and components used are nothing high end.The Ultra driver is high end,damn sure. You want the high end complete package,JL Audio has them. Fromj driver,passing by the amp to the cabinet it all says High End like few. And we know a BASH plate amp is standard fare and costs little(used by SVS,eD,Epik and you name them),the JL Audio amp costs several times as much.

[shelbydz28]

Thanks for all the replies. Can you help me to understand why I would want the JL F113 over say the True Subwoofer EQ Signature when the Signature is rated to - 3dB at 16Hz while the F113 is -10dB at 16Hz?

I realize bigger is always better, but it seems if you can’t hear the lower frequencies it wouldn’t be as desirable?

Thanks,

Doug

[TheEAR]

First,I had the whole Sunfire lineup (from Junior,Super Junior,Mark II,EQ and Signature),I was at one time a major Sunfire fanatic(ask some members here,long time members).

Sadly Sunfire specs (response,linearity)are only valid at low volume with major bass room gain. The JL Audio f113 trounces the Sunfire Signature very badly.

A) Output wise the JL Ausio has a clear advantage over the Sunfire Signature. Even with the PC the Sunfire cannot match the massive 13.5" monster that equips the f113. Simple displacement here.

Frequency response,the JL Audio is measured OUTSIDE and the Sunfire like all the subs they offer INSIDE with major room gain(plus placed in a corner!!) The JL Audio can reproduce Pomp & Pipes with majestic power,the Sunfire Sig will reproduce DISTORTION and belch down that deep(compared A/B).

C) Component quality and construction the JL Audio again has a marked advantage.

Plus just look at the Home Theater Shack where a respected member and tested of the sub world has tested many subs,the JL compares well to much larger ...ported designs. Also there is a forum in England where some testers have compared the Sunfire among others and have tested the JL,it is a MASSACRE. Not even close.

Let me tell you the Sunfire Sig is a mighy tiny sub,but the JL f113 is MONSTER in a compact package. There is not one sane person who would take a Sunfire Sig over the f113. It is not close and even a gross mismatch.

[shelbydz28]

Dual Post

[shelbydz28]

Ok, that makes sense, but more to the point: I only have $2000 to spend – and the sub needs to be not larger than the HSU VTF-3 HO as mentioned. Am I hearing that the RT-12d is my best bet in this case? Again, low THD, low frequency, musical ability below 80Hz and HT wow factor are my key concerns over high dB levels. As a side note, what approxiamte dB is a 'tolerable' listening level (I’m sure tolerable listening level is another topic of discussion altogether)?

Thanks,

Doug

[CAS]

The only "higher end" from SVS are the Ultra series ,the built and components used are nothing high end.The Ultra driver is high end,*** sure. You want the high end complete package,JL Audio has them. Fromj driver,passing by the amp to the cabinet it all says High End like few. And we know a BASH plate amp is standard fare and costs little(used by SVS,eD,Epik and you name them),the JL Audio amp costs several times as much.

Which is why the fathoms cost 2 to more than 3 times as much. Bang for the buck is low. And $11k for a Gotham? Seriously diminishing returns.

BTW the Ultras are what I was referring to as higher end than the previous models.

[TheEAR]

Quick OT update, I spoke with my JL Audio/Klipsch dealer close by,...I am ordering the Gotham next month.The price fits ,the size of the sub fits...and it will be flanked by solid competition from eD,Epik,TC Sounds and Sound Splinter. Yep I am seriously sick.

If anyone hears about a structural collapse in Montreal,that will probably be my place. [:#]

[Jay481985]

what would theear do for a klondike bar? particularly a 80 pound klondike bar... You know what I mean, you can pm me.