Musical, clinical, dry...(speakers)

[Duke Spinner]

Stereo, with 2) ribbon mikes, stragegically placed

[Mallette]

Thanks Duke. Beyond that, it is a mystery to me...

Actually, I have done some experiments in surround, quite successful to my own ears. Documented in my little piece "Six Cardinal Rules of Sound Recording."

Dave

[mark electro]

So if the system doesen't sound accurate enough, then the listener should drink more wine.

[DrWho]

Mike did not qualify his statement. so one cannot really respond.

Obviously, rock and roll and most music with electric/electronic components cannot be capture "...exactly as it happened" because it did not happen. It is a creation.

However, the job of an engineer in the vast majority of acoustic performances and environments job is, indeed, to capture the moment precisely as experienced by the ears. Big job.

Even stereo pair mic'ing is a process of creating something new. One might argue that it is closer to the original sonic event, but it is far from perfect. The very careful placement of the mics to capture a good balance between direct and ambient sound and balancing out the directivity of the mic to accurately capture the nuances of the instruments is totally the same process as the effects being put into "rock recordings"

It's all just using different tools to achieve a desired effect.

[Mallette]

It's always seemed obvious to me that the moment you use more than two for stereo, or four for surround, you've delved into manipulating rather than capturing the moment.

For stereo, I am a fan of ribbons mainly because I seem to have a "feel" for what they hear. They work very much like ears, as well as like the acoustic instruments I record. There is something of an art that I cannot explain as to how to mount and angle them. Beyond that, it is basically a matter of finding the best seat in the house and placing them there. The output goes directly into a vacuum tube preamp, into the DAC and onto the drive.

I've never heard a mixer that wasn't there, nor have I ever failed to hear one that was.

Dave

PS-The attachment is based on PZM's as used for surround, but the principles are the same. I choose PZM's for this because used as I describe one need not understand anything of placement, interaction, etc. They just work. Rigging and placing four ribbons for surround is best left to idot savants.

sixcard.pdf

[Coytee]

Dave...(or anyone that might know?)

Are there some known recordings that are known to be some kind of fabulous achievement and use one or two mics for say, an accoustic event?

In other words... instead of me asking who is the hot musician playing the guitar, drum, other... I'd be asking who's the engineer with the hot hand at capturing the spacious sound?

(btw, I'm limited to the cd world these days)

[Mallette]

I firmly believe that the Reference recordings by Prof Johnson, the latest being "Crown Imperial," are the best commercial releases at the moment. Since I know the organ and acoustics of the Meyerson well, I can attest the Prof has it more right that I've ever heard. In fact, I'd love to know where he had his mikes as I never had a seat that made the organ and hall sound so good.

Prof is a staunch two mike, no unnecessary paths, play it where it lays guy. This is the only one, other than my own efforts, that I can fully support due to my familiarity with the hall and the instrument.

Mercury Living Prescense LP's of the late 50's and early sixties were also two mike affairs. Crystal Records made a few direct cut records of extraordinary quality in the the 70's. There are others.

Regards,

Dave

[Duke Spinner]

+ 1

[Coytee]

As in this? http://www.referencerecordings.com/

looking like all or most of these are by Prof Johnson??

(me thinks they'll be getting an order soon)

Thanks!!

[Mallette]

You're in the right place. Feast!

Dave

[Coytee]

Ordered 5 CD's... Looking forward to hearing them

[Y]

[Don Richard]

Excellent point. Edgar Villshur also did the same demonstration with his AR3 loudspeakers back in the 60s. "Villchur sponsored concerts at AR to demonstrate the accuracy and low distortion of his speakers. "He placed the musicians (the Fine Arts String Quartet, among others) on the stage, with a pair of AR-3 loudspeakers behind them. At various points, they would stop playing and the taped performance would take over. Most reviewers of the day could not tell the difference between the live and recorded sound. 'I thought that these concerts defined what we meant by high fidelity,' commented Villchur with pride. He took care to use the best equipment possible at the time, including an Ampex tape deck, two 60-watt Dynakit amplifiers, and number 18 zip cord."

I don't know who was first to do it of course, but obviously when you have a big enough room you can even make little acoustic suspension speakers fool people! As the room grows in size, the sound becomes largely diffuse - I think thats the principle. Man, I sure remember for years and years people going about saying the AR3 "must be" the most accurate speaker in the world - based on that demonstration.

Does anyone know the years of these fascinating demos?

I couldn't put my hands on my copy of the Dope From Hope that described this test, but I found a limited description in "High End Audio", a book by Robert Harley. The demo happened in 1948, and the amplifiers were 5 watt tube amps. No other details.

Don