Fostex rear-loaded horn

[Erik Mandaville]

More complex than a rectangular box, and shipping is included. I thought some of you might like to see this interpretation on single dirver speakers.

http://www.kcsloudspeakers.com/Back_loaded_horn.html

[cscmc1]

I'm a big fan of the Fostex fullrange speakers. I have a set in the BK-16 cabinets that Madisound sells, and they sing!

[Daddy Dee]

Erik,

Thanks for the link. They do some nice looking cabs. Browsing the site, here's a cool one, IMO.

http://www.kcsloudspeakers.com/FE206.8_Back_loaded_horn.html

I've got a pair of really simple ported cabs with this driver and the sound is very good.

[Erik Mandaville]

The Madisound design has always looked good to me, as well. Are you using the super tweeter with it? I have a good friend who bought the same tweeter to use with his bass reflex/Fostex cabinets.

Dee: They are neat! Thanks for including the link.

Erik

[cscmc1]

I kinda like a supertweeter with mine. I had a pair of Fostex tweets, and sold them. Also used some Audax tweets to good effect. They're not totally necessary, but I like them. Shameless plug: in order to appease the wife, I am actuallu selling my BK-16 cabinets and FF165 drivers. They're listed on audiogon now, and they'll be sorely missed. I bought my Speakerlab K's, though, and am already testing her patience with speaker variety and size in the house, so the Fostex need to go for now. []

[jt1stcav]

They're nice, Erik, no doubt about that! And I bet they sound sweet with SET amplification as most crossoverless single-drivers do.

But I'm so afraid to step back up to the plate with another pair of Fostex-driven single-drivers due to them beaming and sounding too forward in the treble region at higher volume levels like my Loth-X Audio Amaze did! From what I've read, a lot of drivers from Fostex and others with whizzer cones have a beaming effect in the highest frequencies when played at higher gain levels...that's the only reason why I sold my Loth-X monitors with the Stefan Stamm-custom designed Fostex tri-coned drivers; other than that, they were perfect in every way! Even with aluminum alloy phase plugs, those Loth-X drivers did tend to get bright...I suppose it's the nature of the beast, eh?

[Erik Mandaville]

Jim:

I think there is something to be said for that, but I suppose it's also a matter of listening habits, speaker placement, and that sort of thing. I also find the Lowthers a little more directional than the two way monitors I made, but I found that a little less toe-in reduces that effect. Some people even remove the phase plugs, despite what's said about the subsequent (apparently) ragged response. I borrowed some new phase plugs from Lowther America that I liked very much, but they tended to focus high frequencies even more. Still, from where I sit, the sound was very good. I'm going to purchase them one day soon.

There is also the climbing impedance issue associated with the Lowthers, which some repair with a swamping resistor across the speaker terminals. I've done that in the past with them; I'm not using one now. Others complained of what has become known as the "Lowther Shout" in the region of a few kHz. It's not been a problem with me, but I will say that the drivers took literally several hundred hours to break in (mechanical break-in in terms of driver surround) and sound more balanced.

But yes, over the past decade of using this kind of speaker, I have talked with a fair number of people who found what you have but still liked this kind of loudspeaker better than multi-driver types. I do find the Lowthers more sharp or bright than some other speakers we have, but for me that's a characteristic that helps make certain instruments more real to how I know them to sound in real life. Violins and acoustic drums, for example, can have an amazing sort of brash or bright quality that Lowthers reproduce particularly well. Our Klipsch Heritage speakers are good in that way, too, which is why I liked them since we first listened to a pair of Heresies in the 80s but couldn't afford at the time.

Always a trade off somewhere, it seems.

Erik

[jt1stcav]

Erik,

Don't know if you read the thread concerning the Tekton 4.5 SD monitors, and I had asked the same question to Mark and Daddy Dee. Mark's response was the following:

*******************************

Jim--

I don't think I saw your original question about beaming at high volumes. My Tektons have a baffle step corrector and that is all. The Butterworth alignment is the box.

I listen in the near field, and not really all that loud. I have no beaming issues at all, BUT - I am not using SET amps, I am using PP. Now, with a SET amp, they may sound brighter, because SET amps often have a brighter tilt to them. I know that recently C&S built a couple SET amps and he more or less indicated they were too bright with some of his speakers which include an SD from Nirvana which is a bit like the Fostex. Now aside from all that, these are not going to be satisfactory for organ music. The bass doesn't go low enough. It has really sweet musical balance on regular music though, and that includes the bass. I seriously doubt this is the speaker for you, because of all those reasons.

*******************************

So I'm assuming that for all practical purposes, pipe organ music isn't the best genre for these types of loudspeakers, especially for people like me who tend to crank up the volume control from time to time. Guess I'm really not the best representative for the SET class since I'm not all into jazz, folk or blues as much as I am with large orchestral works and compositions for the pipe organ (I should really own a more powerful KT88/6550 PP power amp I suppose).

[Marvel]

Guess I'm really not the best representative for the SET class since I'm not all into jazz, folk or blues as much as I am with large orchestral works and compositions for the pipe organ (I should really own a more powerful KT88/6550 PP power amp I suppose).[:'(]

I don't know, you have the 300B amps. My 2A3s really rock for me on the LaScalas. Wish you could get up here to hear them sometime.

Bruce

[jt1stcav]

I hear ya, Bruce. My 300B amp did a fantastic job with the Cornwalls (and I'd love to hear my amp through a pair of new La Scalas[]). If I was able to relocate my system to my large living room, I'd still own the CWs today. With my folks retired and living down here now, plus with my brothers (we all really need to get married and move away), there's just no room left in this small house for rearranging stereo systems.

Believe me, Bruce, if I know I'm ever making a trip up your way, I'll contact you in advance for a visit. I'd love to hear what superb 2A3 monoblocks and La Scalas can do![Y]

[Erik Mandaville]

Jim:

I have to say that I think his comments are totally on the mark (that really wasn't a pun, by the way...). There are some things they do incredibly well, but I would agree that organ music is absolutely not one of them. Well, at least the kind of organ music with those really, really low, dive-to-the-center-of-the-Earth notes. It's just not the right application for them. The SET brighter-tilt suggestion may also be part of this, I can't deny that, because as much as I enjoy and often use SET amps, they simply do not IME have the same kind of bass response ability of a more powerful amplifier. My listening habits are actually very similar to what he outlined above, at least in the past few years. I prefer to listen closer to the speakers, and at only moderate volume levels most of the time, but this is when we're using the Lowther/Moth system. The surround sound with Klipschorns, Heresies, Dyna ST 70 and Teac amps, is a totally different animal, and one that also includes a subwoofer. it's capable of what to me is enormous and very clear sound, and is great for organ music, heavy rock/metal, etc. Pink Floyd SACD was kind of a true 'WOW' experience for me, but I don't listen like that very often. It sure was fun, though!

The single driver Lowthers, which may be the case for the Fostex too, is that they have this sort of 'real' and/or very sharply and clearly defined quality with the right kind of music. Something can be said for the lack of a crossover, and I think that character trait is at least partly responsible for the very sort of open sound of these speakers. They just can't hit those really deep, chest vibrating notes really well.

And I would say you're a fine rep for the SET bunch! You like your 300B amp tons, and can always get something more powerful sometime if you'd like to try it. I would freely admit that more power has some advantages, and is one of the reasons we have a Dyna 70 around here. We listen to many different kinds of music, and I like the way each system 'works' whithin a certain comfort zone. But yeah, SET and small single-rangers probably isn't the best for the complexity of large orchestra and organ. One speaker with a whizzer can only do so much, ya know..

Erik

[jt1stcav]

I feel like crying like a li'l school girl now.[:'(]

I guess someday down the road when I'm financially secure to once again live on my own, I'll get that second stereo system and create a dedicated listening room for it to play my favorite music without fear of blowing something up! And have my SET rig and SD loudspeakers in another dedicated room for all other genres of music that don't require more earth-shattering power (like Norah Jones, Diana Krall, Sarah McLachlan, et al).

Thanks for the explaination, Erik.

[Erik Mandaville]

Jim:

Single-ended 2A3s and 300Bs can be great with Klipschorns. I've had many different types of single-ended amps, including the SE OTLs and DRD 45s that were a marvelous match. We mainly use the K-horns in our HT right now, and find a more powerful amp suitable for movies. They Dyna 70 is a great amplifier for music too, though. That Pink Floyd SACD I mentioned, though, was the one time I heard the Moth clip. Things just got grumbly and wooly sounding when we pushed it beyond its limits. And SET was downright bad with the comparatively inefficient monitors I built. I couldn't turn the volume up very much at all before they started sounded very unpleasant. Granted the room in that case was pretty big, and the situation probably would have been better in a den or study type of setting.

Erik

PS: Transcendent Sound SE OTLs wired for monoblocks provided a sound I remember well. Just amazing, and had outstanding bass response for a 4 watt amp. OTLs are cool amplifiers, although the SE OTL got roasting hot for its small output. I don't care about that; it sounded great.

Erik

[jt1stcav]

I'd love to audition a pair of new La Scala IIs with my 300B amp, only because I've never heard any La Scalas before and think I'd really enjoy them with my organ recordings (and with my dual subs). I have an SACD hybrid of Pink Floyd's DSOTM and a high quality CD of The Final Cut that both sound terrific fairly loud thru my SET amp (no clipping that I recall). My one brother also has a pair of mint DCM Time Windows (or some-such) from ca. '86 that really sound transparent and image like crazy. They're inefficient (86dB?), so I'm reluctant to try 'em out on my 6.5Wpc setup 'cause I know they'll probably be as bad as your DIY monitors with the Moth.