Klipschorn - Electronic crossover

[Arizona Dan]

This is my first post to this forum. Hi everyone. I just bought my first pair of Klipschorn and have been listing to them since Saturday. They are very impressive. I will post the serial numbers later to find out what year they were made. I am curious about the crossovers. How do these work with electronic crossovers? I do not have two more amps, but what the heck - it is fun to explore possibilities. Does anybody have any experience or stories about Klipschorns and electronic crossovers.

Dan

[Don Richard]

I'm not sure that a simple active xover will make any difference on a corner horn. Bi-amping is generally used to increase the output of a loudspeaker or to match the efficiencies of a subwoofer and a top box. Khorns have enormous output capability even with 25 watt amplifiers, and don't require subs. A loudspeaker processor such as the Behringer DCX2496, however, has delays available on each output that can be used to "time align" the bass horn to the midrange horn. Due to the folding of the bass horn the sound has about 3.5 feet further to travel than the sound from the midrange. This path length difference causes audible effects that can be corrected by delaying the midrange an appropriate amount, about 3.2 milliseconds. The results of correcting the arrival times results in a subtle improvement with some types of music, no difference with others. Setup and alignment is tricky and requires, at minimum, a sound pressure meter and an audio signal generator. If you like to tweak, go for it.

Don

[PrestonTom]

This is my first post to this forum. Hi everyone. I just bought my first pair of Klipschorn and have been listing to them since Saturday. They are very impressive. I will post the serial numbers later to find out what year they were made. I am curious about the crossovers. How do these work with electronic crossovers? I do not have two more amps, but what the heck - it is fun to explore possibilities. Does anybody have any experience or stories about Klipschorns and electronic crossovers.

Dan

Dan, Congratulations on your new Klipschorns.

Please do a search on the various threads about bi-amping and electronic crossovers. There is much material to digest. Don has mentioned above some of the benefits of such a strategy. There are others also.

Personally my suggestion to a new owner would be to wait a month or two and spend the time listening to your new speakers prior to any tweaking of crossovers etc. In the meantime you may want to search threads on sealing the cabinets to the corners ("pipe foam" will get you started), experimenting with placement along a long or a short wall (many treads) and the "proper angle" for listening (on-axis, and many threads). The latter may require using a false corner, or half corner (again, many threads). When doing these things, please make sure that you listen, listen, listen.

Good Luck and let us know how it progresses,

-Tom

[Chris A]

Fully active crossovers, that is, completely bypassing all passive crossovers that may be present in your Khorns, are very stable over time and under high-load conditions, and can do delay correction for the different path lengths of the Khorn bass-to-midrange drivers (about 3 ms) and the tweeter (an additional 1.5 ms or so). [Note: see the enclosed pdf file that explains the driver delay measurements.] The Khorn has peaks-troughs of response in driver output and lower-order passive crossover filters (two sets) than what is available and programmable using active crossover devices or DSP/amplifier combinations like the Crown XTi series, costing about $400 per stereo amplifier with all crossover, and sofware, etc., included. You'll need your PC like the one you used to type your message, above, to program the Crowns.

Khorn active crossovers would have advantages with respect to passive crossover setups, i.e., using a totally active crossover, not something hybrid using both actives and passives like was mentioned above in biamping the Khorn. Delay correction and built-in minimum-phase equalization are two advantages. Cost and performance stability over time for high-order crossovers are other issues for passives. One disadvantage of actives is that some DSPs have a low level of noise at quiescent conditions - i.e., when nothing is playing. On the Khorn with its 105 dB/1w-m sensitivity, you will hear low-level Crown DSP noise. However, the EV Dx-38 electronic crossover or the Behringer mentioned above will probably be much quieter with external amplifers, albeit at a much higher price point--probably 2-4x higher.

Khorns will likely benefit from fully active crossovers using high-order crossover filters. These will likely improve your reproduction of pianos and female voices, cymbals, chimes, flutes, etc., fairly dramatically. I would recommend talking to Roy Delgato, Klipsch Principal Engineer ("Bodcaw Boy" on the forum here) for his recommendations. Who knows, maybe he's had a Khorn in Klipsch's anechoic chamber with Crown XTi's or Dx-38 and other kinds of power amplifers. He might have the delay and equalization curves for those setups readily available like he did for the Jubilee/Crown XTi setup which is outstanding, IMHO.

Respectfully,

Chris A.

Richard C Heyser KHorn Review.pdf

[Arizona Dan]

Thanks Tom and Chris for the reply. I am going to follow the suggestion of waiting a while before playing with an electronic crossover. In the mean time, I have been reading up on sealing the cabinet to the wall. I have a question about sealing, but should I ask it here, or post a new question.

Sincerely

Dan

[PrestonTom]

Thanks Tom and Chris for the reply. I am going to follow the suggestion of waiting a while before playing with an electronic crossover. In the mean time, I have been reading up on sealing the cabinet to the wall. I have a question about sealing, but should I ask it here, or post a new question.

Sincerely

Dan

For archival and search reasons, I think it is better to start a new post. Others will be in the same predicament and could also benefit, so why hide it in this thread, with this title,

-Tom

[Daddy Dee]

Arizona Dan,

Congrats on your Khorns. Wondering about their vintage. The date of manufacture can be determined from the serial numbers.

I'd agree with your thought to listen for a season before introducing changes. IMO having a strong sense of your original sound for reference is important in making a meaningful evaluation of any changes.