La Magic! or Listening to La Scala's backwards

[greg928gts]

Another thought. I'm using the Mark III's right now, basically stock. Craig went through these to make sure everything was working properly, but they still have the flabby bass and dull highs that these stock units are known for. I'm not complaining by the way, I've heard several stock Dynaco units and they are great sounding, one of my favorite vintage, but the fact is they do have flabby bass and dull highs compared to today's offerings.

I need to try a different amplifier on this system. Good thing the new owner is allowing me to keep them for a bit. Thanks Richard.

Greg

[oldbuckster]

Those Sir are some FINE lookin' La Scala's ..... very impressive indeed .... turning around the Bass Bin , Brillant, and it's nice on the eyes !!!

[greg928gts]

Those Sir are some FINE lookin' La Scala's ..... very impressive indeed .... turning around the Bass Bin , Brillant, and it's nice on the eyes !!!

Coming up on 10,000 OB. Party?

Greg

[ajsons]

Greg,

As always, great job!! They look very nice.

I've always wanted to try this same setup, I'm glad that you did. And it works.

Another setup to try is pointing them to the floor, like Edgar's Monoliths (Floor Horn)..

It should work well on your concrete floors. Wooden floors will just absorb much of the bass.

If you want to try this floor horn setup, start maybe 12 inches off the floor in the room corner, and about 16 for a wall horn.

You may have to fabricate some adjustable legs for this..

AJ

[boom3]

Just beautiful.

Question: Are these K501s or K401s?

[greg928gts]

Pointing towards the floor is a great idea. I've always wanted to do that with some speaker.

boom - I'm not familiar with that numbering. These are regular La Scalas that have been modified. See www.dcchomes.com/LaScala.html

Greg

[G.Kennedy]

Just beautiful.

Question: Are these K501s or K401s?

Boom ... I am pretty sure you are asking about the Mid horn ...They look like metal K-400 horns to me ... not the plastic K-401

[middlecreekguy]

One could also just remount the speakers in the back of the cab. All one would need to do in buy a new plank of birch to install the speakers in. I've heard of this being done before. Always wanted to turn mine around bass bin backwards. It certainly should increase bass as Greg has said.

[greg928gts]

As I suspected, the success of this configuration depends a lot on the room and components. I set them up in my living room at my house, in place of where my Khorns normally sit, and the sound was not nearly as impressive. I'm able to get more bass from them pointed into the corners, but it's not as solid, deep, or nice sounding as in the smaller room at my shop. The mid-bass is not loud enough and the overall sound is leaning more towards the upper horns, especially the tweeters.

The amplifiers are making a big difference. ALK told me that the tweeters would be "hot" with the Universal networks, but with the Mark III's I was using at my shop, the normally dull sound of the highs blended well with the hot networks. With my 2a3 SET amps they're hot! I might have to bring the Mark III's over here.

Talk about hitting the right combination of components and room. I hit it at my shop with the size and sound of the room, the Mark III's, the Universal networks, the Crites woofers, and the LS bass bins turned into the corners. Just the right combination to produce one of the nicest sounding systems I've ever heard. Before I dismantled everything yesterday, I brought a friend over to listen to the system at the shop, and he agreed with me, we just couldn't find anything wrong with it! We were both shaking our heads in disbelief. Such low, solid bass, almost like a subwoofer was playing, but neither of us has heard a subwoofer ever blend that good with the rest of the sound. And the balance with the mids and highs, everything so smooth. I wish I could say I was getting this sound in my living room right now.

So before anyone cuts the tops off their La Scalas, you might want to do some experimentation first!

Greg

[greg928gts]

22' x 16' room (speakers on the 22' wall), concrete/tile floors, plaster walls, exposed joists on the ceiling, too much furniture and stuff.

[greg928gts]

So my take on this is that the trick with turning the bass bins into the corners works better in a smaller room.

Also, having the speakers toed out like I had them only works with the imaging if they are about 10 or 12 feet apart. In my living room at 20' apart, that doesn't work, I had to point them right at me or slightly toed in to get the sound to blend. So this may have had something to do with the mid-bass coming out, with them toed out the mid-bass is coming out more directly and in between the speakers.

Greg

[gearfreak]

I had tried this with 1 side of my LSI's, and perceived increased bass response, but at the expense of clarity. Figured I was just making the horn bigger.

I still plan to try both spun around and positioning options. The room is wider than deep.

Pointing at the floor I had thought about and dismissed..., with loss of 'floor coupling' ringing in the back of my mind.

However I don't think I have a theoretical understanding of 'floor coupling', so perhaps that decision was short-sighted.

I will try 'flooring' them, I have concrete.

What type of support geometry would be recommended to make them invisible (or close to invisble) to the system?

Perhaps a centered cross (e.g. 2x4's) extending outside the mouth of the df bin, supported by vertical legs at the endpoints?

[greg928gts]

I had tried this with 1 side of my LSI's, and perceived increased bass response, but at the expense of clarity. Figured I was just making the horn bigger.
I still plan to try both spun around and positioning options. The room is wider than deep.


Pointing at the floor I had thought about and dismissed..., with loss of 'floor coupling' ringing in the back of my mind.
However I don't think I have a theoretical understanding of 'floor coupling', so perhaps that decision was short-sighted.
I will try 'flooring' them, I have concrete.

What type of support geometry would be recommended to make them invisible (or close to invisble) to the system?
Perhaps a centered cross (e.g. 2x4's) extending outside the mouth of the df bin, supported by vertical legs at the endpoints?

Yeah, I was thinking about that too. Maybe a leg with a notch cut out of it that the edge of the speaker box fits into? Adjustable would be nice, at least until you figure out what works.

If you can, try putting the La Scalas on the short wall of the room and turn the bass bins backwards into the corners. Try pointing the horns more straight forward and see if you can get the imaging right that way. Try moving the bass bins that way too, not 45 degrees into the corner. See my photo that shows how I oriented them into the corners.

LSI-BT is probably La Scala, Split, Industrial - Black paint, Trim Aluminum. You should be able to figure out the year of manufacture from the serial number.

Greg

[gearfreak]

Maybe I could put eye-hooks in the ceiling and hang them. Mission-Impossible style. ;-) Non-destructive U shaped clips could be used, would not bother the trim. Then the adjustment is via the individual support lines. Odd angling could be attempted too! Don't know if the joists above would like it, but bracing with 2x4 to spread the load across multiple ones would alleviate this. Jeez, I am actually considering this. The tops would probably need to remain off to the side somewhere though. hmmm.

Alas, using the short wall of the room is not a possibility at this point. Maybe down the road.

Yes, split indiustrials. As far as I know, there is no way to date industrials.

My ~30yo assesment is based in part on the details here: http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/102072.aspx?PageIndex=1

There is another, previous post out there (by colterphoto perhaps) mentioning that the books or codes for industrials were lost - or something to that effect.

[Daddy Dee]

Greg,

Very cool idea. Makes sense that the sound would be good.

Beautiful job on the cabs.

[ajsons]

Bill Cain suggested this same idea (pointing the LaScala towards the room corner) two years ago.

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/66310/748330.aspx#748330

page 4.

You're probably the first one to really try it, Greg.

[greg928gts]

I really haven't spent much time listening to music in my room at the shop and I'm just now learning that it's a really good sounding room. Had some Heresy's in there tonight making bass notes that Heresy's have no business making.

My experience with the La Scalas and turning them backwards had a lot to do with the sound of my room.

I still think everyone with La Scalas should cut the tops off and try this experiment though. []

Greg

[kfoss99]

I want to thank Greg for having me over and listening to the La Magic La Scallas before they are shipped over seas.

It was my first time hearing La Scallas and, also, tubes. They are as beautiful souding as they look. With them located in the corner and with the bass bins rear firing it was like having two 15 inch subwoofers in each corner, but the vocals came through crystal clear, and the high drum symbols and keyboard notes never drowned out. I have never heard anything sound so flat from the lowest notes to the highest, usually something is compromised. Paired with the two 60 watt push-pull mono-block tube amps he had there is NO static/white noise, my fiance may kill me, but I will become a convert to the tube side. We listended only a little while, but we heard excerpts from one of Donald Fagan's CDs, Dire Strait's "Brothers in Arms", and the Eagles "Hell Freezes Over," amoung others.

One thing that Greg did not show a piture of is the 3/4 inch plexi-glass placed in the top of each bass bin that allows one to look into the dog house.

I want to thank Greg for being a very gracious host. This is the second time I've had the pleasure to see his shop. He sent me home with some Klipsch souvenirs, a 1974 issue of Rolling Stone with a Paul Klipsch article and a signed copy of PWK's biography. After reading the bio I think I need a house with a large enough listening room to set up a three speaker stereo array that PWK was fond of, maybe two KHorns and a center La Scalla?! I'll have to save my pennies. Anyway, Greg is a great host and he and his wife are nice people, I hope some of you have had the chance to meet him. He is a great ambassador for Klipsch and PWK's advocacy of horns.

[IndyKlipschFan]

Very cool room, and 22' apart I bet sounds nice..

I would guess the good bass this way to the back walls is because of the floors etc., etc.

It fills the room more kinda like a K horn does... also like a BOSE 901 does... if you could turn the tops facing backwards but still had a extra k 77 to fire forward, I wonder what the effect might be too? Wow this is getting dangerous .. hehehehehehehehe

[greg928gts]

I want to thank Greg for having me over and listening to the La Magic La Scallas before they are shipped over seas.

It was my first time hearing La Scallas and, also, tubes. They are as beautiful souding as they look. With them located in the corner and with the bass bins rear firing it was like having two 15 inch subwoofers in each corner, but the vocals came through crystal clear, and the high drum symbols and keyboard notes never drowned out. I have never heard anything sound so flat from the lowest notes to the highest, usually something is compromised. Paired with the two 60 watt push-pull mono-block tube amps he had there is NO static/white noise, my fiance may kill me, but I will become a convert to the tube side. We listended only a little while, but we heard excerpts from one of Donald Fagan's CDs, Dire Strait's "Brothers in Arms", and the Eagles "Hell Freezes Over," amoung others.

One thing that Greg did not show a piture of is the 3/4 inch plexi-glass placed in the top of each bass bin that allows one to look into the dog house.

I want to thank Greg for being a very gracious host. This is the second time I've had the pleasure to see his shop. He sent me home with some Klipsch souvenirs, a 1974 issue of Rolling Stone with a Paul Klipsch article and a signed copy of PWK's biography. After reading the bio I think I need a house with a large enough listening room to set up a three speaker stereo array that PWK was fond of, maybe two KHorns and a center La Scalla?! I'll have to save my pennies. Anyway, Greg is a great host and he and his wife are nice people, I hope some of you have had the chance to meet him. He is a great ambassador for Klipsch and PWK's advocacy of horns.

Thanks Karl, it was nice having you over again. Not too many audiophiles around these parts.

You left out a couple of things though. If people want a listening session here at the Monster Garage, they'd better bring baked goods to gain entry. That was very good home-made bread!

Also, we were not listening in the 22' room. Karl helped me bring the La Scalas back over from my house to the smaller listening room at my shop. I lucked out with the sound of this room. Even Heresy's in this room make bass notes that they have no business making.

It was fun to watch someone elses jaw drop at the sound of the La Scalas in this room. I'm going to have to split another pair for myself.

Greg