djk Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 "The JBL2380/2445 is roughly ±3dB from 600hz~7.5Khz with no EQ." Export the pdf into MS Paint, scale at 10 pixels per dB, draw lines at ±5dB, ±3dB, 600hz, 7.5Khz, save as GIF, load to photohost. Hmmm, looks right to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 "Basically a big arse PD5, it's hard not to like that driver. I get the benefits of the lower compression ratio" It's more like the PD4, no phase plug and a lower compression ratio. Funny, I liked that driver too. "Kind of limits tweeter choices unless you're a network whiz (not me:) " The BEC at 18dB/4Khz would be fine, I use the VHF100. "I always found that M4 intriguing -- crossovers at 250 and 2000 using the Community VHF100 for the top. Hard to imagine that not sounding better than pretty good. Have an opinion on that beast? Kind of expensive, but what isn't -- if it's good." The M4 is quite the beast, almost 40lbs for the driver alone. I have the older version of the M4, the one with the aluminum sandwich diaphragm, the newer carbon fiber ones sound substantially the same. The VHF100 is so clean it doesn't sound like it has any HF, although it goes higher and flatter than Altec and JBL 1" drivers. Just goes to show how much distortion we are used to accepting. The Avantgard Trio uses the Beyma 380M with the M200A (customized), the VHF100 is about 4X the cost of the Beyma (in Europe). The B&C DE25/16 (DE250/180) are similar to the Beyma and easier to find. The DE180 is around $100 or so. I haven't tried the $40 DE10, it looks interesting. The verdict is still out on the BMS drivers (I have several in-house). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 The JBL2380/2445 is roughly ±3dB from 600hz~7.5Khz with no EQ. The info just posted by Dr. Who shows that combo being within 5 dB from 1050 Hz-5000Hz with no compensation. I am using an EV equivalent (940 horn with DH1A driver) without EQ, with a JBL 2404 on top. It is flat from 1 Khz to 6 Khz and sounds great!. Using Midbass horn down to 150 Hz below that, and MWMS woofers below that. Horns rule! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 I've got two pair of the EV HP940 with the DH1A, theyt're real nice aren't they? I've also got three pair of the EV HP640, they work better for PA. How do you like your Peavey MB horns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 I've got two pair of the EV HP940 with the DH1A, theyt're real nice aren't they? I've also got three pair of the EV HP640, they work better for PA. How do you like your Peavey MB horns? I'm in sonic heaven with these things. I lined up all the voice coils of the MB-1, the HP940/DH1A, and the JBL, smack into the corner on top of the MWMS, so I'm close to time aligned, . I hear much better ambience in the recordings and incredible detail. Got rid of the attenuating resistors, Zobel, etc. in the JBL Xover, since the MB-1 efficiency is at about 109 db/watt I needed to match up everything else to it. Just finished my Xover tweaks today. Get this, I'm running all 1st order slopes, just a 3uF cap on the JBL, wide open, a Bob Crites autoformer at -4 db on the DH1A with a 12 uF cap. It's ruler flat from 1K to 6K without CD eq., so i'm letting the natural 6 db/oct. rolloff happen...right into the super tweeter. On the MB-1, I'm using the chokes from a Klipsch KG-4 Xover in series 1 mH + 0.5 mH. I set my receiver to "small speaker" so the signal is a 150 Hz Highpass into the MB-1. The double set of MWMS take over at 150 Hz down from the mono signal of the sub out and are fed by 4 discrete channel of Hafler amps. I had to turn those up a little to mate with the MB-1. It's all cheap, simple, and insanely efficient. I used my friend's RTA setup and those 5 horns/channel together are a smooth as a mile of velvet (with the exception of the 55 Hz hump in the MWMS). I'm hearing detail, depth, ambience, definition, and dynamic IMPACT like I've never heard before on any speaker, including the Jubilees, Khorns, and the Palladiums. There is no harshness of any kind at any volume. It all sound so real, it'a almost scary. The MB-1/HP940 have replaced my LaScalas (no more 160 Hz hump to color the sound). They more efficient and lower distortion, as the MB-1 makes a better MidBass horn than the LS bass horn does (compromises). I get louder and with greater detail at a lower volume control setting. Plus I'm finding myself listening at about 3 db less than before BECAUSE of the extra detail and imaging. Amazing what big horns with simple Xovers will do. Maybe Bruce Edgar was right about simple 1st order networks sounding best. In my case, there is not EQ anywhere, just running on the flat portions of the horns and gently crossing to other horns. Now this is no slam on a LaScala, which is still my favorite compromise in the Klipsch Heritage line..........especially in the age of subwwofers. Other than low WAF setup (not as insane as some others in the world, but close), nothing beats an old pair LaScalas with fresh caps on an A networkwith Bob Crites Tweeters and his 4500 mod, K-43, and your favorite subwoofer for great sound and ease of setup. THE MB-1's bring out subtle nuance in vocals, piano, and drum attacks like never before, since there is no Xover point in the most important range (150 to 1.2 Khz) which they serve very well (probably because they have rally big phase plug and a big throat). I'm really glad I took a chance on these. I have an extra pair in the garage, just in case...............LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 "The JBL2380/2445 is roughly ±3dB from 600hz~7.5Khz with no EQ." Export the pdf into MS Paint, scale at 10 pixels per dB, draw lines at ±5dB, ±3dB, 600hz, 7.5Khz, save as GIF, load to photohost. Thanks for posting that, I was gonna go one step further and pull out some measurements I've taken of a real system, but I was having trouble finding it. I don't know of any EQ in our processing at work, but I remember that our system measures 5dB down at ~18kHz with that horn/driver combo...though 3dB of influence from the room (even with a gated measurement) could easily explain a few dB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 The JBL2380/2445 is roughly ±3dB from 600hz~7.5Khz with no EQ." Export the pdf into MS Paint, scale at 10 pixels per dB, draw lines at ±5dB, ±3dB, 600hz, 7.5Khz, save as GIF, load to photohost. Hmmm, looks right to me. There appears to be a typo in the JBL literature. I was looking at the horizontal polars plot, located immediately below the plot you referenced. On that plot, the scale jumps from 110 dB to 90 dB, instead of going from 110 to 100. Hmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 here appears to be a typo in the JBL literature. I was looking at the horizontal polars plot, located immediately below the plot you referenced. On that plot, the scale jumps from 110 dB to 90 dB, instead of going from 110 to 100. Hmmm The curves for my EV HP940/DH1A combo are very similar to this. I would still use that JBL horns from 1Khz to 6Khz in my application, since it's flatter yet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 The curves for my EV HP940/DH1A combo are very similar to this. I would still use that JBL horns from 1Khz to 6Khz in my application, since it's flatter yet! The 2380 has 120 deg. horizontal polar response. This won't work well on a corner horn (too much hf energy hitting the walls). Then again, it doesn't look like you have to corner your setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 The curves for my EV HP940/DH1A combo are very similar to this. I would still use that JBL horns from 1Khz to 6Khz in my application, since it's flatter yet! The 2380 has 120 deg. horizontal polar response. This won't work well on a corner horn (too much hf energy hitting the walls). Then again, it doesn't look like you have to corner your setup. I have 2 corners in my setup, 13.3 fett apart, so there is barely enought room for a center. Essentially, all 3 of my woofer sections touch each other across the entire wall. LOL. My amatar is misleading visually. It's also obsolete as of 5 days ago. I will update when I get a new photo. According to all of the JBL literature I've ever read, the 2380 horn is a 90x40 pattern, just like the HP940, which, I think may have preceded it, since EV was a pioneer of CD horns. I have a 2380, along with a couple of P-audio knockoffs, which appear better made. I also have a true 120 degree CD horn from EV which was verified in the Klipsch chamber. I may end up using it or the 2380, depending, for my HT center channel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 According to all of the JBL literature I've ever read, the 2380 horn is a 90x40 pattern, just like the HP940, which, I think may have preceded it, since EV was a pioneer of CD horns. I have a 2380, along with a couple of P-audio knockoffs, which appear better made. I also have a true 120 degree CD horn from EV which was verified in the Klipsch chamber. I may end up using it or the 2380, depending, for my HT center channel. JBL lit on the 2380A says 100 deg +23, -23. It is >100 deg over most of its range, narrowing to <100 deg only in the top octave. That is also what the polar plots show. But the marketing dept. says 90x40 nominal. JBL is surely not the company it once was since becoming "Harmanized". They apparently can't even get their own specs to agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 The JBL marketing dept. was always in La La land when stretching the specs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pocket.change Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 EV Georgian KD2's w/JBL 2482's and 2380A's. JBL components are a pleasure compaired to the EV suggested CD & horn combo. With a little EQ to calm the 2482's down a touch, my test gear (ears) approve of the show and for the money, I don't have any complaints. Pioneer SX1250 doesn't miss much either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spamhead Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I've used the 2370 with my 2425J's and H's and 2410's and 2420's and even on my 2461 the horn sounds great with any of these in a home setup, however for the khorn it runs out of gas at about 500 or above, I have a 2380A right now on one of my khorns mounted to 2445J and have it crossed over at 350 and shutting down at 4000 where the 2404H's take over, it's a little too in your face and I think the 50-100 ft. figure might be about right. Some songs I wonder if my bi-focals are getting ready to shatter! ( I love JBL! ) It still lacks a little and I think it's that the 2445 still has trouble producing the 300-400hz's well. My other khorn has the stock K55 and K400 and isn't that bad, it's just not good enough though, I have started a 250hz tractrix for a 2482 JBL but I think I may blow it off because of the time in making the wood horns, I have a trachorn copy and its better than the K400 and works great with the OLD K55, anyway good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 "I have a 2380A right now on one of my khorns mounted to 2445J and have it crossed over at 350 and shutting down at 4000 where the 2404H's take over, it's a little too in your face and I think the 50-100 ft. figure might be about right. " Did you ever look at the data sheets for those parts? The graph shows the output at 400hz to be only 95dB/W/1M, and 113dB at 3Khz. If you build a proper network for this horn and driver combo it sounds fine at any distance above about two foot. The 2404 will probably sound better crossed over at 7Khz with the 2380/2445. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pocket.change Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 L-Pad does the trick. I would like to get a proper XO setup but for now the L-Pad and EQ works fine w/2482. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 I'm currently using a 2380 horn. It's the best surviving of it's time and the fact that they bother to clone it says someting. I have the original one (not the A version) which was broken and glued back together. It sound just fine. I have had the large EV 640 horns. If you are going to sit 10-15 feet from the spakers, I recommend the 2380. If you are going to sit 20 feet and beyond, I recomment the 2385. But it's a personal choice and depends on the polar patterns of the other drivers in the mix also. I just got a pair of 2446j drivers and the big, award winning, 2360A horns (3 feet long and 31x31" mouth) that are the theater version. Much more pattern control form my mains. We shall see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 hey Claudius- I have the 2360 (i think) and KP682 LF speakers, any ideas for a nice mating mid range for that setup? I'll probably be putting Kp1132 behind the JBL horn or the time being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 I haven't tried the $40 DE10, it looks interesting. I have a double stack of DE-10's with the ME 10 horns on top of my DH1A/HP940 horns. I'm using only the flat part of the DH1A curve, which is 1K-6K. I just purchased some JBL 2446J drivers with the phase plug/diamond surround combo which is supposed to smoke the high end of both the DH1A and the 2445 JBL.............but not the TAD's which are too rich for my blood. I will try the JBL 2446J's in my EV horns before I bolt back on the big 2360's that came with them. Claude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 I'm bidding on a DH1A right now. hope it goes for cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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