How to get closer to tube sound from SS Amps? Or do I need to?

[Lawrence H Wesson]

Not shure what to do. I want to spend as little as possible, of course, and get an amp/preamp or integrated amp that will sound more like a tube amp for my KHorns.

I am interested in the Emotiva XPA-2 ($799) and RSP-1 ($629). They have good reviews and fantastac prices! I have just in the last month acquired my KHorns. With the receiver I am using now (Onkyo TX-Sv515pro) the sound sometimes (not most of the time) will sound a little harsh. From what I have read, this is the sound expected out of most (not all) SS gear.

I have read that the Marsh A400s amplifier ($2295) has a less harsh sound. However the price (for me) is stiff. Marsh has a preamp P2000T ($1500) that is a hybrid preamp.

Oh, I forgot to mention that I am retired and buying tube equipment that may need several hundred dollars in tubes a year is not an option. So my questions are, can you use the Marsh A400s amplifier with the Emotiva preamp? The problem with using the Marsh Preamp is that it does not have a sub woofer out.

Does anyone have any experiance with Emotiva amps and KHorns or the like? Trying to figure out what to do.

Thx, Larry

[jheis]

Try to find some B&K gear to listen to.

The ST-125.2/Reference 125.2 amps (125 wpc) can be had in the ~$2-300 range on audiogon or ebay (they're pretty much bullet proof, so I wouldn't be afraid of buying used).

The PT3 SII preamp/tuner is also a nice little unit that can be found for similar prices - does not, however, have a phono stage - if that is important to you. The PT5/Reference 5 is basically the same unit, but with balanced outputs on the main channels.

Retail is about the same as the Emotiva stuff you cited.

James

[tigerwoodKhorns]

There is a lot of good SS out there that does not sound harsh. I had a Denon 5800 receiver several years back and kept listening to it trying to find the harshness that I kept reading about that simply was not there.

If you want somehting that is very cheap and not harsh at all, try a Panasonic SA XR25, 50, 55, or 70 (or whatever other models that they made). Digital amps that are not harsh at all.

Re-reading your post, it looks like your budget may be about $3000. You have a lot of choices, tube or SS at that price point. If you like SS, try Classe. Here is a preamp and power amp:

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatran&1225043894&/Classe-Audio-CP47.5-Solid-Stat

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1224482107&/Classe-CA-200-w/200watts/ch-ex

If you want to spend less, try Musical Fidelity. Great gear and moderately priced used.

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?intatran&1225569064&/Musical-Fidelity-A3.5-Integrat

Now all you have to do is sit back and wait for 50 posts telling you to buy vintage tubes and Jubilees...

[Lawrence H Wesson]

I'm new and do not know how to put an entry at the bottom saying thanks to all the replies they have been very helpful and gives me avenues to pursue.

So I am replying to the last entry so far saying:

..........thanks to all the replies they have been very helpful and gives me avenues to pursue.

[Lawrence H Wesson]

Guys...

If you have a tube or hybrid preamp will the characteristic of the preamp carry through (typically) to the speaker through a typical SS power amp?

[Colin]

I have not heard a digital chip amplifier that was harsh on big ole horns.

I have not heard a solid-state receiver on big ole horns that did not have the solid-state edge to them.

I have not heard Classe equipment.

I have heard, and strongly recommend, refurbished vintage integrated tube amplifiers on big ole horns. See NOSvalves site.

I have heard Juicy Music tube pre-amplifier and NOSvalves VRD amplifiers, both made for big ole horns. They are excellent.

If you get new or vintage tube equipment, you will not spend hundreds replacing tubes every year, especially if you only spend a few hundred on vintage equipment.

If you get tubes, you will not go back.

[db101]

The tube vs. SS debate will go on forever, I'm tried both on various speakers and usually to my ears tubes win out, except on low efficiency speakers that need a lot of current to get the woofers pumping. To get the best of both worlds you could go to a digital amp from companies like Nuforce or Red Wine which are said to sound tube like but also have the bass slam of SS, these co. also make integrated amps, look for used to stay within your budget. Another option is to go DIY, it really isn't that hard to build a tube amp from a kit. For around $500 you can get a kit for a clone dynaco ST-35 from either triode electronics or dynakitparts, have the pleasure of building it yourself and knowing how to repair it if fails, a retube for this amp would only run around $50 and only needed maybe every two years depending on useage. The only true way to get the sound of a tube amp is to have a tube amp, a tube preamp with a SS amp is a little better than all SS but not much. There's also a lot of good deals on the used market right now.

Good Luck, Greg

[Guest " "]

I said this earlier in another thread. The amp choice question is subjective. I currently have 5 different tube amps and 2 different SS amps, and I have a general Idea of what I like in each amp, but no single amp has everything I like. As you will notice, a lot of folks buy and sell amps after using them and try a different amps.

There are SS amps that have the tube sound. The pioneer M-22 comes to mind. It's a class A amp from the mid 70's that has amazing spec's which rival amps of today. For a meger 30 watts pre channel, this amp will set you back 800 bucks.

Best bet is to do some house hopping and listen to equipment that you are considering with the same speakers you have.

[fenderbender]

Just like speakerfritz said....there is no magic bullet, and there is no best, only what sounds good to you.

On K horns ....a refurbed scott 222 or 299 would set you back no more than $600-$800 with good tubes and thats fine for most......

Juicy music has a hot rod Crown D45 SS ($799)that is reported to be really awesome, especially in combo with a tube preamp.

Vintage Mcintosh has a warmer sound that many attribute to the "tube sound"

sorry that this was no help...but if it's any consolation, most of us are in the same boat.......

[db101]

Hey speakerfritz, have you tried an OTL on the Klipsch's? I'm thinking that will be next for me.

Thanks,Greg

[Guest " "]

Hey speakerfritz, have you tried an OTL on the Klipsch's? I'm thinking that will be next for me.

Thanks,Greg

I havn't , but I have been interested in OTL.

What we need is regional shoot outs. We all meet somewhere and bring some gear and try different things.

I would bring this Marshall 9200. I'd leave my Mcintosh's, Peavey's, Carvins, Usher's, Shanling, Onkyo's at home.

[Guest " "]

Here's a front view.

100WPC. Dual mono block design. Amazing sound.

[Blvdre]

I'll put a word in for the CJ mosfet gear. Although I'm presently running Wright gear, I was very happy with my CJ mosfet set-up.

CJ MF200

PV-8 w/ phono

Premier 10 w/o phono

[fenderbender]

 Here's a front view.

 

100WPC.  Dual mono block design.   Amazing sound.

Interesting....my Wife's ex is a producer in toronto and he showed me his new marshall EL34 50/50 that he was using in a studio set up....I forgot all about them...but it did sound really nice driving Tannoy monitors.....classic EL-34 sound...very clean

[DrWho]

If solid state or tubes were really doing their job properly, they would sound the same. Since they don't, it's really just a matter of choosing your flavor of distortion.

That said, the speaker will have far more impact on the sound than the electronics. It would not be unwise to ensure that you're getting the best out of your Khorns first.

For starters, are your khorns tucked into the corners all proper like with a good seal?

[Guest " "]

"marshall EL34 50/50"

This is an interesting product line. Currently the models have the EL34 designation and come in 100/100 or 50/50 flavors. Prior models, which is what I have are the 9200, 9100. The 9200 and 9100 uses 5881 family of tubes (6l6, kt66, etc) . I have one of each. I also have an el 20/20 which uses el84's.

[Lawrence H Wesson]

Listen, I really appreciate ALL the input. My head is swimming but I will get a grip on 'it' at some point.

Just saw a Jolida JD-1000RC new 100wpc integrated amp for $2395. Is Jolida a good, very good, excellent, quality and sound. I realize that it is only your opinion but it gives me some information which is much better than a vaccum. Also is class AB good? That is I guess it is not as good as pure Class A but how is AB not as good as A. Would you be happy with a class AB?

[Lawrence H Wesson]

I have another question that you might help me on. Currently I have connected my KHorns to my Onkyo receiver simply by plugging into the speaker output terminals on the back of the receiver. I have a choice of speaker a or b. That is not a problem. However I keep seeing that these tube amps have a 4 ohm or 8 ohm output. Which would you use for the KHorns - the 4 or 8 ohm outputs?

[fenderbender]

  "marshall EL34 50/50"

This is an interesting product line.  Currently the models have the EL34 designation and come in 100/100 or 50/50 flavors.  Prior models, which is what I have are the 9200, 9100.  The 9200 and 9100 uses 5881 family of tubes (6l6, kt66, etc) .  I have one of each.  I also have an el 20/20 which uses el84's.

 

 

May I inquire to ask...are you collecting the product line or do you have a specific use for these amps? The 50/50 I heard really did sound nice (even though it was very hard for me to tell what else was effecting the musicality that I was hearing, as it was inline with a lot of processing gear)

Most (including myself initially) would discount a guitar amp, for use in a "high end system"....but after the advice I received and the audition...I was wowed....

The producer I mentioned knows his stuff (produced several Celine Dion albums) and said that he utilizes several new and vintage guitar amps to attain a great sound in the studio setting.......He suggested using one in a home "hifi"setting with the right tubes.......food for thought.

*** sorry for the jack...you may now return to regularly scheduled programming

[BE36]

I have no technical answer to your question other than I learned from the experanced member that I bought my La Scala's from "Never put tubes after SS" and "You can use a Tube Pre with solid state amp to get most of the benifit of all tube. He had Peach (Tube Pre) and an Aragon SS amp. It sounded great and some day I will by a tube pre.

Until then on a budget:

Months of experimenting with dozens of combinations the only way I could get close to the sound he had was to take a Adcom 750 CD player's variable outputs directly into an old Adcom 535 SS amp. Sounds warm like Tubes.

Using a Pioneer SS as a Pre or both Pre and Amp was harsh. The Pioneer sounded better when I used it just as pre and used the Adcom for the amp. Sounded great, warm and dyanamic, after eliminating the Pioneer for two channel.

Adcom 535s are avialable for $150 +/- and with 60 watts a channel I have never use more than half volume.

Just my newbie 2 cents . . . . .