LarryC
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Posts posted by LarryC
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Yes, the OTL amps have a slightly high output impedance (10 ohms) which does lean out the sound. I got much better sound balance when I changed out all the silver cable in my K-horns. (For too long, I had a mix of silver and copper cable in the varied leads from the crossover.) The Basis cable is pricey, but worth it to me.
I didn't like the lumpy bass heaviness of one pair of P-P amps I tried. Balancing out all these things isn't always easy on K-horns. -- Larry
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On 5/21/2020 at 9:05 AM, Tarheel TJ said:
I have had a number of tube amps over the years. Had an AMC CVT 2030 (PP, Class A, 30 WPC) that sounded amazing but was unreliable and difficult to get serviced. Had a Musical Paradise MP-301; sounded great but was too noisy for high efficiency horns. Now running a home-build Bob Latino ST-70. It is the best yet. I am very satisfied for the ~$1000 I have in it.
Now that I have one amp build under my belt, I am very tempted to try one of Transcendent Sound's OTL kits. Coytee's comments only serve to stoke that desire! Maybe 'll order a kit later this year....
I have a pair of aging OTL amps that are now rarely available on the used market, and think they are among the best I've ever heard. I can almost recognize OTL sound by the top-to-bottom transparency and linearity, a nice thing in classical music.
If you have a tube preamp, I suggest an Essence power cord. ESP is likely to have some used earlier generation cords, which are excellent IMO and really enliven the music sound. -- Larry
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It may depend on what you play on them and how you listen. I expect you will note undue congestion or loss of clarity in loud, complicated passages, especially in the bass, if your wattage isn't adequate. I think it wouldn't be adequate for me. Your sound quality may influence what music you play. --Larry
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A couple of interesting points may be being missed here -- what drivers do they have, and are they matched? A lot of funny things can happen with switching out drivers over a 50-60 year period! I suggest you especially see what your bass drivers are, If you are lucky, you may have a pr. of EV 15 WK's, as fine a bass driver as was ever made. You may have a pr of University SAHF's, a smooth and good-sounding match. Don't start running off to replace with current non-Klipsch drivers until you're sure you've looked into what you're doing.
Larry
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I can't help much, the room looks a little bright to me and would need some trial and error to bring into balance for me. Nice, well-appointed room and decor, though! Good luck.
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On 11/22/2019 at 2:10 AM, dtel said:
Just normal oxygen free #14wire, no long runs.......just another opinion......
I know wire type can probably make a difference in sound, but to me there re so many other variables in reproducing music I am not really concerned with better wires. I say this because source alone can range dramatically, not even counting electronics and speakers.
I agree with much of this. Sometimes this is more matching for synergy than absolute sound quality regardless of brand. There are sometimes big differences in cable sound, regardless of what some believe. I like my Basis speaker cables and Siltech silver interconnects. However, silver can have a bright, thin sound although it can be a little more pure than copper. I would suggest consulting with The Cable Company, have never gone wrong following their advice.
I would use standard gauges (12 ga.), not 10 which is often too big to fit into connectors or speaker terminals, and I would NOT shorten unduly, since you may not know future length needs. Mostly, try to get a handle on synergy before buying or installing. I tend to prefer equal lengths between the two sides to make life a little easier.
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Just started Robert Gates's Exercise of Power, a majestic tome on America's place, fall, and possible restoration in the world. Gates was Secretary of Defense under Bush AND Obama (yes, he was that good and well respected across party lines) and Director of the CIA, inter alia. As befitting the subject and content, he adopts a Churchillian writing and storytelling style. Perhaps the best of the current book writing bunch.
I'd like to see him as National Security Adviser in a forthcoming Biden Administration.
LC
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The Shorthorn was a back-loaded horn, i.e., only the sound wave from the rear of the bass driver cone was fed into the bass horn. Most of the frequency range was directly radiated from the front of the bass driver, and only the rear output was propagated through a bass horn. That makes a world of difference. That said, I thought the Shorthorn was a very nice, liner-sounding speaker.
Because the Model S Shorthorn (pictured above) horn was indeed short in length and had a faster taper, it was not able to propagate frequencies below 40 Hz (spec of 60) at best. The only exception to that was the Model T Shorthorn which had a much longer horn and slower taper, and was capable of reaching 45 Hz (35 at best). Those are very rare, sold largely as mono units and almost never found in a stereo pair. The T was also a back-loaded horn, and thus a dramatically less spacious sound than a K-horn. I'm sure you wouldn't get the same kind of amazing sound from trying to scale it down.
See www.HiFiLit.com
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Good! I haven't been keeping up with things, but I hope they went to a decent mid-horn size and crossover to finally distinguish the midrange from the Heresy. That comment probably shows my datedness as well as my opinion. I thank you -- to me, this is very good news. I hope the reviews are really good.
Larry
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So what's going to happen with Cornwalls?
Larry
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For an even more mind-blowing visual and sonic package, go to the brief storm movement of Richard Strauss's Alpine Symphony, which features incredible brass array, a wind-machine, and thunder-machine (sheets of tin) and a huge orchestra in general:
Incredible. -- Larry
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What Beethoven recommendations do you have in mind? Beethoven had a lot of amazingly well-judged timpani parts (of course) but Berlioz for one reached well beyond him as did Wagner and Dvorak (8th, 9th symphonies). I just didn't have time to to search out the Wagner examples. Listen to the first movement of the Dvorak 8th -- I suggest Honeck and the Pittsburgh SO.
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To REALLY get the full impact of the timpani and brass in the Berlioz Requiem, please focus down specifically in the previous Youtube excerpt to minutes 20:22 to 27:00! This is a much shorter segment than what I gave everyone before, and gives a fuller impact. The excerpt below repeats the link, but lets you go right to the desired passage;
Just skip to min. 20:22.
I'm very much a believer in live performance passages you can see as well as hear. Some other links in this thread are just static pictures which don't tell as good a story. That's why I give you the more live links such as the following. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!!! -- Larry
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You want interesting timpani parts? Go to Uranus in The Planets, scored for 6 timpani with 2 players. Each one is tuned to a different note, thus encompassing most of an octave and some remarkable rhythmic and melodic passages on the timpani alone. I recommend two Youtube videos to see and hear this remarkable movement -- BBC Proms from, I believe, 2009 (you can see the entire work, well worth it)
Berlioz was a remarkable innovator on all instruments, and you can see amazing use of many timpani both forte and piano, in his Requiem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWU7T9zYEks
There is an excellent DVD conducted by Colin Davis in the Regensburg cathedral.
The whole requiem is well worth watching/hearing.
Larry
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This thread contains an incredibly rich and well informed discussion IMO. Some of the recommendations such as The Planets should demand your early attention.
Two composers to give special attention to are Beethoven and Tchaikovsky— Beethoven in particular never fails to draw that attention, in almost any setting. YouTube is a GREAT site for classical music because it has overwhelming opportunities to both WATCH and LISTEN to well performed great work.
I suggest Beethoven‘s symphonies 3, 4, 5, and 9, Schumann’s 2 and 3, Tchaikovsky’s 4, 5, and 6, Dvorak ‘s 8 and 9, and Orff’s Carmina Burana.
When searching YouTube, look for thumbnails showing actively playing orchestras and performers and not static album covers.
OK — take it from there!!! Good luck!
Larry
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Call and ask Klipsch -- quite high, $1,800 for a pair wen they first came out in 2002 or 2004, but I heard they'd dropped a lot later on. In my K-horns, there was great improvement in blending and coherence and linearity, with a reduction in broad peaks and dips in frequency response. Mostly. the output from the drivers came together much better, helped by the FR improvements. While the AK3's were an improvement over the AK2's, the 4's were a big jump up from the 3's in my opinion.
The 4 is very complicated-looking, lots of coils and capacitors, a far cry from the elementary coil-and-capacitor for each crossover frequency of the earlier models. Very different. The raves in recent Stereophile reviews and now others online are warranted IMO. You should at least listen to a pair if you can.
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FWIW, I have been very happy with my AK-4 crossovers, which replaced AK-3's. These weren't cheap, but you get a Klipsch-engineered crossovers mounted on the inside of new bass bin doors, and new mid and tweeter drivers . Very smooth, well-integrated sound and dispersion. As I understand it, the AK-5 cross's were made for the newer closed-back K's; I tried them and didn't like them as well as the 4's for my standard, open back K-horns.
To the best of my understanding, the AK-6 is a new design and top hat construction, and, for the first time in Klipschorn history, cannot be upgraded from earlier models -- I cannot upgrade from the 4's to the 6's.
Sorry I don't have a cost-free suggestion. Larry
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On 9/9/2019 at 5:50 PM, Chief bonehead said:
Officially 700 but acoustically it’s around 660hz.
Excellent! I have long felt that the CW III erred greatly in using the Heresy upper driver config, 800 cross and all, which made it sound more like a heresy. I thought it badly needed a 600 HZ mid horn to measure up to the original Corns with its noticeably larger midhorn propagation field. The III sounded pinched and unimpressive to me. I wish it hadn't taken so long to rectify!
I certainly hope to hear it someday! Not for me so much, since I'm pretty well set with my K-horns.
Larry
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Is this serious? I just happened to see this after not even looking at the forum for months or years. Absolutely plan a visit if you're out this way. PM me and Gary! It's OK to email me at larryclare@aol.com.
LC
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The only "wire" I have experiencer with are (1) ESP power cards, (2) Basis speaker wire, and (3) Siltech top-line interconnects. . I can totally vouch for all 3, through members of this forum tend to disbelieve all of that. The ESP power cords are terrific on tube preamps, adding a "sparkle" that no one else seems to have. Not so special on power amps, however.
The Basis wire takes tons of break-in (well over 200 hrs), has very nice spatial distribution and a very realistic sound. Rarely sold since AJ Conti died, however.
I have a very expensive top-line Siltech interconnects between my preamp and OTL monoblocs. which it seems can't be beat. Tops in sound quality and spatial rendition.
Caution: these are very expensive, though not as outrageous as the most costly on the market.
Larry
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7 hours ago, Bill W. said:
One of my favorite Bach compositions for organ! I will play this through the Jubilees on the patio after we close.
Thank you Chris
As I understand it, the tracker mechanism is a direct mechanical link between pressing the key and the opening of the valve at the foot of the pipe, rather than an electrical solenoid doing the action. I believe guys get harder to press as more pipes are brought into play or something like that, a problem the solenoids bypass. More difficult but better connection.
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On 3/16/2019 at 5:21 PM, Coytee said:
In days of old, who said "Hmmm... these Klipschorns (Cornwalls, Belle's...) might look good in Rosewood, Macassar Ebony..." or some wild & crazy finish.... "furthermore, those various finishes might match up nicely with these various colors of grill cloth"
I get that PWK designed the Khorn but was he the aesthetics artist too, deciding what finishes would be available and what cloth choices would match them?
Memory tells me that the customer decided on the wood finish however, it was the factory that had to state what was available.
How about today? Is that what Roy gets to do while hiding in his office eating Blueberries & talking about the Bass that got away??
I guess I see the same genius's hand in the veneer choices as designed the permanently classic proportions of the top hat and permanently unbeatable performance of the bass horn into a package that could go down to a 16' organ pipe's low C, fit though the household doors of the time though the present day, and make it up a flight of stairs. Who else but Paul Klipsch? No one else.
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On 6/29/2019 at 9:10 AM, kevinmi said:
Most cd players will put out up to a full 2v , which a turntable will not. This will make the cd output signal louder. My Shanling cd player has a built in output volume control, so I can turn down the output and balance it to my turntable level. Now that I have everything playing at the same level, the vinyl sounds way better. Period.
This is what makes this debate a little odd -- the level produced by an LP is dependent on the voltage output of the cartridge, the gain of the phono stage, the line stage, etc., all more or less related to how strongly things are cut into the LP groove, while the CD output seems to be a function of how much the CDP's electronics amplify the digital signal. These are industry customs and and design choices. I suspect that a beefy signal is much easier to come by in the digital realm, than in the very low-level world beset by difficulties in getting a strong signal out of microgrooves and LOMC cartridges which have intense challenges in wrestling with microstyli, groove compression, and electronic noise under amid some pretty severe compromises.
Levels are subject to many modes of manipulation for commercial and artistic purposes. It seems kind of arbitrary in the digital arena, it seems to me.
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I agree with less-is-better! JohnA suggested the AK-4, which is what I have, and it's a great, smooth, well-integrated sound. Other than that, I wouldn't "upgrade" because you assume it would automatically be better, when it might not be! Klipsch engineering has always been pretty good.
I wouldn't assume you're likely to make it better.
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SWAG Music List
in Forum Meetup Planning + Past Klipsch Pilgrimages
Posted
Is there any place for a classical music program? Over a decade ago, I brought a few CDs including there best of the bunch, Holst's The Planets, and got a good response. A few years later, I was given the run of a full Palladium HT system in Indy, and played a number of selections. I even ran it 3 times since there room only held 15, so total attendance was perhaps 45. It didn't catch on for future Pilgrimages, though, so such things are probably one-shot things, not done too frequently.
If I were doing it, I'd select a mix of DVDs and YouTube videos for music with visuals, and CDs purely for best-quality audio alone. Anyone interested in this idea???
-- Larry