TauRus

A set of two white Quintets is for sale. Condition: like new (were in use for slightly more than a year). If interested please make offers. Photo attached.

Guys, looks like I will have to relocate soon internationally. I am really worried for the safe transportation of the speakers. What do you think: is it beter to find original boxes for my RF3s and RB5s? In case i will not find those, how to better protect the speakers? I just dont see how I can throw them into the regular "shipper's" boxes. Thank you for the advice.

---------------- On 3/20/2004 4:08:21 PM m00n wrote: $600.00 for some video cables? O pleeeeeeze! Can you image the markup. There is no way any cables cost a manufacture that much to produce that it requires that kind of mark up. Not for that lenght anyway. That is pure BS marketing horse shat. No way... give me those 600.00 video cables and give me some video 100.00 cables and I bet you will not be able to tell a difference. ---------------- My thoughts exactly ... and actuall not just thoughts. At some point I was quite sold for all this cable mania. Oh boy, how much time have I spent reading reviews about some expensive cables like AudioQuest and the likes. Eventually I got wiser and decided that the optimal price range should be around $100 for a set of components. Thats wwhen i decided to go with Outlaw PSC (Pure Silver Coax) components. By then, I already had a few cheaper sets at home (RCA, Philips, RAtShack, NXG Pro). So, I installed Outlaws and was satisfied thinking a had a great deal (around $115 for a 1.5m set). A few months ago, I had a chance to take a set of BC Silver Serpents (from my friend who owns them) to do the shootout with my Outlaws. DVD was set to "loop" play a few short episodes (both with dark and light scenes). Connection from the DVD player (at that time it was Denon DV2900) to the TV (Hitachi 43" HDTV RPTV, calibrated) was direct for the sake of the test (normally, I have the video routed through my receiver). We did not have a switch to make instant A/B comparison. To compensate for that, we tortured ourselves with numerous cycles of toggling the cables. Neither me, nor my friends could see any discernable difference. We did not have a scope to measure anything, but our eyes did not find any added noise or washed out colors or any other artifacts for that matter. The Picture Quality (PQ) was equally good. So, the consensus was, that these two sets of cables were equally good as well. But something did not sit well with me. I decided to continue the tests. I brought all the cables I had at home and repeated the whole drill all over again. This time along with Outlaws and BC Serpents, there were Philips and NXG Pro cables. Well, this time I WAS expecting to see the difference because the price ranges were more than 10fold. I was shocked to see that again, the picture mostly stayed absolutely identical. I considered one set as a loser though: Philips had a very bad connection, was almost slipping out of the female RCA. NXG Pros (btw, cost around $12 for 1M online) on the other hand had a very tight grip, actualy I found their connection essentially as tight as with Outlaws. Oh my, copper twelve dollar cables performed exactly as cables made of pure silver at more than a hundred dollars more. So, now I am not so sure about investing significant money into exotic cables. Even my $115 Outlaws seem too expensive, forget about those that cost $600. Maybe, I would have different results if my TV had larger screen or I had a longer run of cables? Perhaps. But at 43" of screen size and about 2M distance between the player and TV, I could not honestly see any advantage of more expensive cables. For those who would want to do a similar test, here you go - a link to the site that still carries similar NXG Pro cables: http://www.darrinsdealdepot.com/product/NX6002 (did not do the extensive search online, just the first trader i came across, perhaps you will be luckier and will get a better deal ) I would be interested to see whehter any of you guys would see a dramatic difference, or ... any difference for that matter.

Steven, thank you for sharing your experience. Looks like I need to leave my doubts behind and start actively looking at the amps. I dont want to steal this thread any further, will probably post a separate thread regarding a few amps I have thought about so far.

Well, apparently CoOISIY was asking to compare how they sounded. If he goes to the Axiom Forum, chances are the responses will be in Axiom favor. Here, most of us, me included will favor Klipsch, not because of a brand loyalty, but because people here are favoring the horn based speakers. I had an opportunity to listen to both RF-7 and Axiom 80s. Axioms are great speakers. I heard them paired to one of the Outlaw amps and the resulting sound was terrific. Even more impressed I was when I listened to RF7s though. RF-7s in my mind are at least a couple tiers up from those Axioms both in terms of their sound and looks. It is difficult to make direct comparison for me since i listened to these speakers in different setups and at different times. But my overall subjective impression is definitely in RF7s favor. I dream of getting them one day Although, once again, if you will end up with Axioms, most likely you will not be sorry. PS Man, you got yourself a tough nick, ...took me three times to spell it correctly ..

Denom AVR 3803 should be fine as a processor. But keep in mind, it does not have the latest Dolby PLIIx. Personally i would not shop for a used unit for a pre/pro, because if you have separates, your processor will be probably the most frequently upgraded unit due to new functions/features. 3803 is still relatively new and has a host of unique useful features. For example, Sub level boost for external analog 5.1 inputs. I have a question to the forum in my turn. I was thinking of upgrading to separates as well. My question is: when I buy a separaate amp(s) and use my 3803 as a pro, will the amplification stage in the receiver still be activated? I dont think there is any option in the setup to turn the amps off. If so, should there be any concern about it? We seem to prefer to disable even video circuitry in receivers for cleanest possible audio playback (Pure Direct Mode on 3803), but with the receiver's amps still working, would this negate all the benefits of going separates? Just curious and wondering if the whole idea of using a receiver as a pre/pro is meaningful.

Big, I also want to second Hitachi. I am not familiar with this exact model, but i have seen a few other units, and still own one of the oldest HDTV ready Hitachi 43" model. You know, I often see other CRT RPTVs at friends places, and each time I realize how good the Hitachi screen is, and one feature in particular - wide viewing angle. I can basically watch my Hitachi almost from any reasonable angle, while at my friend's house who has one of the latest large Pioneer RPTVs, I had to always find some sweetspots, it looked like seating a little outside of the good viewing angle significantly decreased color saturation and brightness. My 2c.

Congratulations, John!

Big, since a budget is of major concern, try your local Costco or Sams' Clubs. Not always, but often they have great gear for very decent prices. Besides, their return policy, especially at Costco is very flexible and you can always return your unit to them if not satisfied, even after a few months of use.

The reason for all these locking mechanisms on banana plugs is to provide a tighter fit and better surface contact between the plug and the receptacle, not to prevent them from falling out.

Tenn, both models are great receivers. I use AVR3803 and am extremely happy with it. Keep in mind that AVR3805 is coming to market next month, therefore the 3803 prices will more than likely go significantly down. Dont pay attention to the posted prices, just give a call or two to the authorised dealers like 6AVE for example and ask them for the sales pricing. They are probably willing to clear their inventories of the older units to give way to new ones.

TransAm, by the description of the receiver you gave, it looks like a 5.1 receiver. Are you sure you dont have a sub pre-out? I cannot think of a brand/model of a receiver that does not have this feature. WHat is the model/make of your receiver?

Hensley, More experienced guys here might give you more detailed advice. Let me just briefly touch upon a few points: - what is your budget? without knowing it, no one will be able to give you a corect advise - many people here will advise you to get 7 identical speakers if possible, perhaps with the exception of the center channel speaker - what you call "component" feature, if i understood you correctly, is what widely known as base management, and it is a function of your receiver, not the speakers. Your receiver should allow you to determine the cut off frequency, lets say 80 Hz, below which all audio information from all 7 channels will be routed to your sub. Hope this helps a little.

Juba, while it might be true in your case (deficiency of your PC audio card), in home theater realm, typically I prefer coax over optical TOSLINK. The only reason is that optical interface can introduce jitter to the audio signal (clock synchronization while converting the digital audio signal from electrical form into optical and back). Coax does not have any jitter since the signal stays in digital electrical form all the way. In theory, both coax and optical interface should be lossless methods of digital audio signal transmittion. In reality, many DVD players have less than perfect optical interfaces. If you have to stay with the optical interface, try to get a better TOSLINK cable (in many cases they are thicker than budget optical cables).

---------------- On 3/11/2004 3:50:42 PM HornEd wrote: Not exactly true, WDST speakers are effectively tripoles that have a woofer that sends frequencies under about 2,000 Hz toward the sweet spot… and two tractrix horns to spray everything over 2,000 Hz toward reflective surfaces rather than the audience. Thus the audience can get a sense of direction from sounds under 2,000 Hz and sounds above arrive at about the same time and confuse the ear… and that passes for ambience enhancement. Therefore, WDST speakers do NOT spread the same sound over 180 degrees. I believe WDST to be better than other tripoles since there ends are tapered. -HornEd ---------------- Ed, for the sake of theoretical discussion ... You stated that WDST speakers do not in fact spread the sound over 180 degrees. Are you familiar with other models/brands of speakers that achieve this? In my home setup I also use monopoles (RB5-IIs)as surrounds. But last year I played a little with different speakers for my surround channels. I have auditioned a few surround speakers in the stores like Tweater, including the older RS-3s. Never had a chance to listen to their other brethren from the Reference line. But out of those few models all failed to really create a good ambient soundstage. All, with one exception - Mirage Omni60. I will not describe their construction - everyone can go to their website and take a look at the specs and photos. I am just curious whether you had a chance to listen to those speakers and how do you assess their surround technology. P.S. As for Mirage Omni60 speakers, they did sound nice in my setup, created absolutely phenominal ambient scene in movies (both mounted on the stands or hung upside down on the walls), worked surprisingly good even for music. The reason i did not keep them were: 1) did not match sonically with the Reference speakers in the front, 2) build quality was not on par with Klipsches, and that is to say the least, 3) looked a little too funny with those UFO like saucers on top of the speakers. But i had fun playing with them. After all , this is an interesting technology.

I am not fmiliar with the Yammi you mentioned in the original post, Is that YPAO an equivalent or similar technology to Pioneer's MCACC? If so, it would be more fair to compare that Yammy to Denon AVR 3805 not 3803. 3805 that is scheduled to ship next month i believe has a similat chanel setup functionality. As for AVR3803, aside from the fabulous audio quality, i would like to list a few features that I really like on this unit: - subwoofer boost for External In - this comes really handy when you are hooking up a DVD-A/SACD player - 7 channel stereo - not to be confused with all those DSP modes - a very nice sounding multichannel mode for stereo sources. - A and B speaker terminals for SURROUND channels - allows you to either use B terminals for your second zone or as REAR SURROUND channels turning your HT into a 7.1 system. - conversion of all video inputs into component output. Note, this is not a scaler solution, just a feature allowing you to run only one pair of component cables to your TV, while having all sorts of video inputs coming to your receiver, including composite, S-Video and component. I believe this component switch has a 100Mhz bandwidth which is quite sufficient for a HD signal switching. - excellent build quality, made in Japan. There are many other features that are worth mentioning, but these would be on top of my list.

I did not find this duel between HornEd and T2K too amusing. I belive only constructive criticism should be acceptible on the forum, especially as highly respected one as here. I did find this thread very insightful, but would want to read a little less personal duels, but rahter a shootout of opinions on the matter. Apparently, the truth as usually happens does not lie in either camp. There are situations when dipole/bipole/quadropoles/whatever-poles would be preferred to monopoles, and vice versa. Instead of fighting i would rather see these seasoned and wise guys collaborate and come up with a checklist that would help future HT builders in designing their setup. This check list should take into account many aspects, like room size, seating location, movie/music ratio, etc etc etc... So that one could more or less clearly realize what kind of setup would work better in his/her particular case. I know, each person has different taste, house, budget, etc. But with all this diversity, there are perhaps some unwritten "rules" that experienced HT installers know and could share with us here.

Thanks, 007. Pity, looks like i have to gave up my idea which sounded so nice.

Well, I dont have PM 5.1. My idea was to get a separate SWS sub plus a pair of RSX-4s. As far as i know SWS comes with the volume control console and has 6 channel in/out. So, on the surface, it looks like it should work fine, but i was not totally sure if i really can control RSX-4s plugged into SWS.

OK, perhaps i was not clear enough: I asked to compare two subs - SWS and the one that is in the Ultra 5.1 set, as for the RSX-4s, i meant would they work with SWS, that is if I hook them up to SWS, would I be able to control their volume/balance with the SWS control console. And no, I did not ask to compare RSX-4s and SWS sonically.

What do you think guys, would a SWS match well with lets say a pair of RSX-4 in a custom 2.1 system? How does SWS compare to the sub that comes in the Promedia Ultra 5.1 set? I appreciate your opinion.

I might sound a little mOOnish here, but i also seem to enjoy crancking Base and treble way up. My receiver, Denon AVR3803 has three stereo modes: Pure Direct - total bypass of all internal circuitry/video shutoff, source DAC Direct - bypass of internal audio circuitry Stereo - receiver circuittry controls enabled, including base and treble. So, the same audio track from the same source in PureDirect and Direct modes sounds to me a little flater and with less sound stage compared to Stereo Mode when i turn the treble and base all the way up. Is something wrong with my ears? PS To make things even worse, i have to confess that my most preferred mode for listening to stereo sources is 7/5 channel stereo which is available on Denon. Though base and treble controls are not available in this mode, it simply blows away all other above mentioned modes in terms of the listening pleasure.

Thebes, how could anyone try them out if they are only coming out in May/June? Btw, there are many other universal models coming out as well from Denon, Onkyo, Samsung etc. Universal players are no longer exotic. However, to find a very good overall unit among them is still a challenge, unless you want to shell out more than $1000. Curently the best among available universals are Denon DV5900 (around $1600) and Pioneer Elite DV59Ai (around $1K)

If your Samsung has a DVI interface, then you will definitely want to get a DVI equipped DVD player. There are a few options on the market now in different price ranges, and even more DVI or HDMI (which is DVI compatible) players are scheduled to be released soon. Many of those also feature DVD-A/SACD playback capability, so you might kill a few birds with one shot. Among the best currently available DVD players, I would suggest to look at either Denon DV5900 (has a DVI out, street prices are around $1600) or Pioneer Elite DV59AVi (has a HDMI out, can be purchased around $1000). On the budget side of the spectrum, you have Bravo D1 and i believe Momitsu V880 (I believe both are with DVI interfaces, and their price is around $200-250). However, these cheaper units have many reported bugs, some units seem to work ok out of the box, others have serious issues with their loaders etc. I would advise to go to the AVS forum which has a dedicated DVD player area. You should be able to learn a lot from many of the knowledgable guys there.

HornEd, I dont argue your opinion. In my setup I also use RB5II bookshelves as surround speakers. I just suggested this idea as a solution for those who are torn between the two types of speakers. But, since we are on the topic, I also want to mention that at some point prior to purchasing RB5IIs, i did temporarily place Mirage Omni50 Bokshelves. They are somewhat smaller than RB5s, have a front mounted port and a woofer, while the tweeter is positioned on the upper side tilted towards front. There is a UFO-like metal deflector just on top of the tweeters. Clearly these speakers are not in the same league as RB5s and were there as temporary solution. They did not match the from Reference speakers in timbre, but i have to say that when i placed them upside down on the walls approximately 7 feet above floor, they created a very wide soundstage in the rear - the effect that was extremely impressive especially when i was watching DTS-ES encoded movies. When RB5s replaced them I immediately felt how even in terms of timbre the entire sound stage was, i had a lot better low frequency response from surround channels, but i lost that surround effect. I wouldn't want the effect in music, but for movies it was awesome. Again, as we know, every HT setup is unique and what worked in my case might not work in other places. I just shared that personal experience with omni directional speakers in the rear.