Deang

I was going to run my future Cornwalls with the Heresies in a quasi-multichannel setup. I've decided to eschew this idea for now. Basically, I don't really have the room to accomodate the Heresies in the way originally imagined. They are oiled oak with 9 ply birch plywood. These were made in 1983, and are in very good condition. There are just a few small indentations along a couple of the rear side edges, that are not really noticeable unless you turn the speaker around or run your hand down the edges. There is one very small chip on one of the rear corners, which I will fix before sending it out. The risers are in mostly good condition, with the exception of a little bit of veneer along the very bottom starting to peel. Again, not really noticeable with the speakers sitting on the floor. The brown cane grill cloth is perfect, with logos intact. All of the highly visible parts of the speaker look perfect. They sound wonderful. $525 shipped, which is exactly what I paid with shipping from the eBay auction I won.

Gee, cute little unit. At 15lbs it hardly qualifies as a paperweight.

The magnet wire I've been using is 19 gauge. I've read the threads on the Asylum using the 30 gauge in single conductor format, as well as aggregating it in a multistrand configuration. Reviews using these two methods produced mixed results. I think 30 gauge single is too much of "less", and the multistrand configuration defeats the whole purpose of keeping it simple. I do think there has to be a little bit of "meat", or substance to the conductor, the trick is finding the right amount -- without underdoing or overdoing it. Right now, I'm staying with the 19 gauge, until I can fully understand what Risch is trying to accomplish with the Cross Connect. I understand the main purpose of cross connecting is to lower the inductance, but most cables have relatively low inductance anyways. I'm betting most of the good sound is simply a result of using solid core copper and a superior dielectric. I've been reading quite a bit on dielectric material, and though foam Teflon is considered the best for the coax type cables like Belden, most seem to think natural fibers, such as cotton are better. Even better still is air -- bare copper, no shield, no nothing. Hmmm. Or should I say hummm. I like the Magnet wire. The enamel is applied directly to the surface of the copper, and since 65% of the current rides the top of the conductor -- it seems reasonable that a material in direct contact with the copper would yield the best results. So far at least, I'm very pleased with the results. As far as silver goes. My Music Metre Silvers use (6) six 18 gauge .9999 solid silver conductors -- and they sounded excellent on the Heresies. Uhh...well, last night they did

I'm marching to the beat of a different drum because I listen to the beat of a different drum. Having decided at one point that cables made very little difference, I decided to revisit the subject after removing the Silvers from the RF-7's and replacing them with the straight Magnet wire. The Apollos and RF-7's reacted very strongly to this change, and I found myself a little confused. I decided just to have some fun, and instead of stressing out over the fact -- I simply enjoyed the experimentation. I discovered when relaxed, and just enjoying the tunes, changes that I once thought were too subtle to worry about, now seemed much more magnified. At evenings end, the Silvers, the MITs, and several variations of stranded wire were heaped in a rather large pile at the end of the room. The SET amps driving the RF-7's, really do seem to favor a thinner gauge, solid core copper cable. I was very pleased with the outcome here. The Silvers, though softening things up, were also snuffing out dynamics. It didn't seem very obvious until I reverted back to the copper stranded. Later, I removed all of the stranded cable and put in the solid core magnet wire. This produced the most dynamics and solid treble reproduction without smearing at the the higher SPL's. With the Silvers, I couldn't hit 98db without feeling like I wanted to grind my teeth down. Last night, I was producing a clean, effortless, unstrained sound at 105db. So, to my utter dismay, the "problem" did not lay with the SET amps -- but the wire. Actually, It wasn't really the wire -- but the combination of wire, amp, and speakers. The "problem", in the event you are not aware, was this sense that the Apollos just weren't "putting out with the RF-7's". Evidently they were, but the Silvers were somehow restricting dynamics and CLEAN treble immediacy. Again, I should have pegged this pretty quickly, as putting in the Silvers was the only major change I had made since getting the Apollos. I was initially blown away by them, but then after getting the Heresies, the damn things almost sounded "muted" in comparison. I don't think I will be commenting on the sound from changes in my system anymore until I've spent several hours listening. I liked the Silvers when I first put them in, and maybe in this hobby it is true to say -- the first impression isn't the last of it. The Heresies OTOH, responded very well to the Silvers. The edginess exhibited on the RF7's did not exist with the Heresies when using these cables. I have no idea why this was. I will be putting the magnet wire on the Heresies tonight to see how they respond. Before it is all said and done, I would like to make some Cross Connects, as well as try a very simple cable like the Audioquest Type 2's. At any rate, all is well on the launching pad, and I'm quite content with what I have coming out of the RF-7's and Apollos. Some additional GENERAL thoughts here: Horns and SET seem to favor very simple cabling structure of the solid core type. Less seems to be more, with a huge thumbs down on the thick stranded stuff. Birwing seems to be out. Each time, the single wire config sounded more open and dynamic. Jumpers need to be the same wire type as the main cables.

It took a little heat off of the upper treble, other than that -- there weren't any other differences.

Boss, Since there is most certainly a God, I'm sure Chris' AE-3 will be for sale soon. You should claim this preamp now if at all possible. It is a very fine piece, and you will not do better for the money. No way. However, you will not have a phono section with it -- it is a linestage only.

Mike, I'm pretty familiar with Jon's site -- I didn't remember anything about magnet wire for speaker cable out there, but went out just the same. Didn't see anything.

Leo, I've concatenated some posts out of another thread that you may not have read yet. The other thread is slow to load because of all the pictures in it. I originally asked the question if there was a way to tell how much power was going across the speaker terminal inputs from an amp. I've been dealing with a bit of a paradox -- and wanted to see what you thought. Dean, Without a scope you really can't . But I found one thing out as pertains to you using the 4 ohm taps. With tube amps they produce there rated wattage at all taps unlike solid state. The only way the rated output changes is if you hookup a 8ohm load to the 4 ohm tap and create a indepadance mismatch. So if your RF-7 are indeed a 4 ohm speakers hooked to 4 ohm taps on the Apollos or the Scott your actually getting the rated output. Also if it seems like the amp drops over all output using the 4 ohm taps then your RF-7s are not 4 Ohm speakers ! Craig Craig, The bottom line is this: Since the RF-7 has those low spots, it is best to accomodate them by using the 4 ohm taps. The overall output of the amp is halved, however -- it will deliver the necessary current when the impedance drops without attenuating the frequencies at those positions. At least, that is my understanding at this point. Running the RF-7's on the 8 ohm taps will generate more current overall, but the frequency response will follow the impedance curve at those instances where the impedance drops. My question asking if there was a way to tell what was going on at the terminal inputs of the speakers -- was for the purpose of validating the math. Now, for the paradox. I've been running the Heresies on the Apollos since last night. The Apollos are wired in 4 ohm internally. I can't change them on the fly. I would have to remove parts and then resolder. I get clean output on the Heresies up to 105db. In fact, it sounds very good. There is no sense of strain or evidence of clipping. The sound is dynamic and crystalline. To be honest, compared to the RF-7's, the sound comes forward with less effort, and as far as my ears can tell -- sounds better at 105db than the RF-7s at 100db. At 100db, the RF-7's begin to harden up, and have me grinding my teeth. So, why do the Heresies generate more output with no strain, then the RF-7's? The really odd thing, is that the Heresies are 98db/w, and the RF-7's are 102db/w. The Heresies, an 8 ohm speaker wired to my 4 ohm taps -- are taking the fullness the Apollos have to offer completely in stride (and according to the information in your post, should be an impedance mismatch, thus choking off the Apollos). The RF-7's OTOH, sound really great until they go over that 95db - 96db barrier, and then they start to sound, well...like $hit. The only way I could get the RF-7's to match the output of Heresies and Apollos, and have them maintain a semblence of integrity in their signature -- was with the Aragon. The Apollos definitely sound better at 95db and under -- but above that, the Aragon delivers a dynamite sound. I'm just trying to sort some things out here, and will also be emailing Leo about this. I'm beginning to wonder if some of this might have something to do with sheer mass of drivers in the RF-7, and possibly the additional parts and complexity of the crossover as compared to the Heresy. I don't know. It's odd. At any rate, I'm looking forward to putting the SET amps on the Cornwalls. It may be that this where they belong. I would then of course put the Scott on the RF-7's -- where I think there might be less problems. Don't know, don't know.

Seems some people think the enamel covering the copper on Magnet Wire is the ulitmate dialectric. Many are using it for speaker cable, interconnects, and the internal wiring of speakers. I did cut 16 inches off of one of my unused inductors utilizing 19 gauge copper. I made four, 4 inch jumpers for the RF-7's. It certainly sounds a little different than both my stranded Vampires, or the stock Monsters with spades using the stranded Z wire. I thought it was interesting that I could tell a difference, since the Vampires and Monsters sound the same to me. Any thoughts on this?

In spite of the fact that Messiah was not born on this day -- this day simply being the result of the merging of Pagan worship practices on the Winter Solstice and Christianity -- and has been for the most part set apart for the blowing of bank accounts, and the resulting depression -- Consider... The Mystery of God. The Mystery foretold by Prophets ages ago, and which angels longed to understand. God, coming in the likeness of a man, through which He reconciled Himself with the Universe -- bringing all back to Him. Sin came through Adam, and biologically speaking -- infected all that sprang forth from Him. This necessitated a birth without Man, and so Mary conceived -- bringing forth The Child. The Child accepts all who come to Him, to be reborn in His likeness. To give the gift of God's Spirit, which is the seal promising what is further to come -- The perfection we yearn for. But not only us, but all that is -- for not even a tree has been seen the way God originally created it. The Cosmos also fell into corruption through sin, and so entropy reigns. All is running down -- resulting in death. It is shameful what men do with the truth. Distorting and twisting it to their own destruction. "Do not be deceived, God is not mocked, for whatsoever a man sows -- that also will he reap." Do not reject God because of the evil men do in His name -- this is the greatest test. Look to The Child, draw Him to your bosom, cradle Him -- and feel the Love He has for you. If you try to understand the mystery the way a child would, you think to yourself -- "It cannot be so simple, for God would not do this." If you try to understand it the way God really understands it, you think -- "It cannot be so complicated, for God would not do this." Do not entangle your mind. You only need to whisper to Him. He will hear. "When He comes, we shall see Him as he is -- for we shall be like Him." Merry Christmas everyone!!

LOL -- Great read James, I enjoyed it immensely -- Merry Christmas.

Craig, Leo and myself have had this discussion often. I asked Leo once how much power the Apollos would have on the 4 ohm taps. I asked this question after an anonymous source within Klipsch gave me impedance specifics for the RF-7. The RF-7 does carry a nominal 8 ohm impedance, however -- there are some spots where they dip down pretty low. Here is his Leo's (Leok) take on this. "Let me see .. I just did this calculation yesterday. Because of the variations in impedance, I started thinking in terms of voltage output figuring I would just use the 4 Ohm tap as a hedge against the low portions of the RF-7 impedance curve. I assume power output specs are real so: if an amp is rated at 10 watts, then into 8 Ohms, using W = V**/R that's 8.9Vrms or 25.3 V p-p. Into 4 Ohms that's 6.3Vrms or 17.9V p-p. However, using that 4 Ohm output into a speaker that is really rated as an 8 Ohm speaker (even though it has 4 Ohm impedance ranges) the amp will be delivering 6.3Vrms into 8 Ohms which will have the amplitude capability of 5 Watts, except the droops at low impedances will be handled better than a 5 Watt amp using an 8 Ohm output (which is what we're looking for; quality, not quantity.)" ...and again... "Output power = V**/R where R is an ideal 4 or 8 Ohms corresponding to the 4 or 8 ohm tap. A sine wave with 18 Watts of output power has 12Vrms on the 8 Ohm tap and 8.49Vrms on the 4 Ohm tap. (the voltage on the 4 Ohm tap will be voltage at 8 Ohms divided by the square root of 2 or V4 = V8/1.41 or V8*.707. For a given volume, a speaker using the 8 Ohm tap will produce power P8. That same speaker, without changing any volume settings will receive, and produce half the power: P4 = P8/2, or 3dB down connected to the 4 Ohm tap. Remember, as you go from 8 to 4 ohms, the Voltage drops by the sguare root of two. V** drops by two. Power for the same speaker is V8**/spkr-Ohm or V4**/spkr-Ohm. spkr-Ohm is constant in this case so power drops in half. That's why I have begun to see the RF-7 as a 99dB 4Ohm speaker." There was also this from Mr. Anonymous: "The way the whole amperage / voltage thing works is this in a nutshell: An amplifier is supposed to be a voltage source because speakers are voltage sensitive devices. If the amp has unlimited current, it can deliver the necessary output voltage (as determined by the volume setting) into any impedance. As impedance drops, more current is demanded to maintain output voltage. Tube amps are typically current limited so when impedance drops the voltage drops and amplitude response changes. Solid state amps are typically capable of higher current output so they can maintain necessary voltage into lower impedances. Killer amps, like Krell etc. cost as much as they do because they have so much current delivery that they can maintain output voltage into even brutally low impedances. High current (think solid state) amps would continue to double output WATTAGE with every halving of the load impedance, but they don't increase output VOLTAGE; they maintain voltage as impedance drops." The bottom line is this: Since the RF-7 has those low spots, it is best to accomodate them by using the 4 ohm taps. The overall output of the amp is halved, however -- it will deliver the necessary current when the impedance drops without attenuating the frequencies at those positions. At least, that is my understanding at this point. Running the RF-7's on the 8 ohm taps will generate more current overall, but the frequency response will follow the impedance curve at those instances where the impedance drops. My question asking if there was a way to tell what was going on at the terminal inputs of the speakers -- was for the purpose of validating the math. Now, for the paradox. I've been running the Heresies on the Apollos since last night. The Apollos are wired in 4 ohm internally. I can't change them on the fly. I would have to remove parts and then resolder. I get clean output on the Heresies up to 105db. In fact, it sounds very good. There is no sense of strain or evidence of clipping. The sound is dynamic and crystalline. To be honest, compared to the RF-7's, the sound comes forward with less effort, and as far as my ears can tell -- sounds better at 105db than the RF-7s at 100db. At 100db, the RF-7's begin to harden up, and have me grinding my teeth. So, why do the Heresies generate more output with no strain, then the RF-7's? The really odd thing, is that the Heresies are 98db/w, and the RF-7's are 102db/w. The Heresies, an 8 ohm speaker wired to my 4 ohm taps -- are taking the fullness the Apollos have to offer completely in stride (and according to the information in your post, should be an impedance mismatch, thus choking off the Apollos). The RF-7's OTOH, sound really great until they go over that 95db - 96db barrier, and then they start to sound, well...like $hit. The only way I could get the RF-7's to match the output of Heresies and Apollos, and have them maintain a semblence of integrity in their signature -- was with the Aragon. The Apollos definitely sound better at 95db and under -- but above that, the Aragon delivers a dynamite sound. I'm just trying to sort some things out here, and will also be emailing Leo about this. I'm beginning to wonder if some of this might have something to do with sheer mass of drivers in the RF-7, and possibly the additional parts and complexity of the crossover as compared to the Heresy. I don't know. It's odd. At any rate, I'm looking forward to putting the SET amps on the Cornwalls. It may be that this where they belong. I would then of course put the Scott on the RF-7's -- where I think there might be less problems. Don't know, don't know.

They can still be a good item if used correctly. If overall flat response is your game, then there's no other way to get it. They should be used in conjunction with a warble tone generator or spectrum analyzer to sort out room irregularites. The equalizer is then set accordingly, and then for the most part left alone. Minor changes can be implemented with the settings to adjust for recordings -- but very slight. Audiophile loons don't like them because they introduce some noise and possible signal degradation. The irony here is that some speakers 'tinkle boom' without an equalizer, and the equalizer might be the best way to fix it.

Kelly, Compressed file containing the pictures should be in your mailbox. Please don't call me 'freak', for some reason, I find the term offensive. Besides, I think you're projecting. I wonder how Randy is doing with the Jupiters. I'm going to throw some Jensens into the Apollos, as curiosity is getting the best of me. What is the best way to determine how much power is being delivered to the inputs of the speaker terminals?

I just sent Craig about 25 or so shots of the Scott. Not the hi res quality you were probably hoping for, but with the camera I'm using -- it was the best I could do. Your friend does very nice work. I don't like REO Speedwagon.

Why don't you email me direct, you're the one that wants to buy it Just click on my profile tag, you'll see an option for email. Of course, this is easier: sevenwescotts@aol.com

Hee hee. Jeff has the Cornwalls -- all I got is pictures. You know Jeff, if you paint checkerboards on those boxes they'll look a lot smaller:)

What model McIntosh amp do you have? Solid State or Tube. Blue Collar = $375 to $675 Of course, he's a Blue Collar guy with a Mac - so who knows.

Damn Andy, that's the best you got, "buy the book...". Man, you're slipping. Hell, you could probably write a whole book about this waterstain:) ...and besides -- you actually think I got $20 after the month I've had?... and look, Jeff's on here too, and he's gonna wonder what the hell I'm doing spending $20 on a book when I haven't even paid off the Cornwalls yet Jeff -- not that it matters all that much to me; but are you sure those things are plywood. My Heresies have the end-grain showing around the front edge. Did Klipsch veneer those edges on the Cornwalls? They sure are perty. Any luck with your buddy?

Well, OTHO, the Welborne stuff is really a great value when you compare it to comparable stuff. I found some amps very similiar to the Apollos for $10,000 a pair. Yeah right, gonna run out and buy those right away. The only time I get burnt out comparing stuff is when something seems out of place and I can't figure out why. I ran into that with the SuperAmp, and it made me nuts. One of the problems with the Music Metre Silvers is that there are four individual cables, and each is identical to the other. The ends are not color coded. This, coupled with the fact that the AE-3's outputs are wired in such a way that it requires the cables to be reveresed at the amps terminals -- makes it rather easy to screw up. The speakers were NOT out of phase because of the mistake -- but the polarity was incorrect, and it did make a difference.

Any ideas?

I just pulled the ad for the Apollos. The downside of working 64 hours a week is that when you finally do have time to play around with your equipment -- you're not always in the best frame of mind. Nothing more dangerous than trying to do something that requires some care when you're plain exhausted. Evidently, when I got the Scott and took it upstairs to give it a listen, and then compare it to the Apollos (before the Heresies showed up), I somehow forgot the peculiarity regarding the AE-3's outputs. Last night, the Apollos took a leap forward. I compared again with the Scott, and the Scott still sounds very sweet, holding it's own very well against the Apollos -- but there is certainly more distance between them now then there was. I guess it's important to put the cables on the correct binding posts.

I quit using a sub with my RF7's a long time ago. The sub is nice for HT, but for music -- I prefer the RF7's without one.

The 'great' Prodj taking on 'The Brennen'. Give me a break. Well, I guess if you run 8 watts or less through them Scalas, the RSW-15 might do alright.

Uhg. You will certainly have to pay some kind of duty, however, I have no idea how much. You may want to contact UPS, who broker for Customs -- they will give you the scoop.