Deang

It would appear I am destined to never hear these speakers the way they were meant to be heard. You know, I sometimes make cracks about Heritage sounding like P.A. systems -- but it's really more of a tongue in cheek kind of thing. It's just that whenever I get a chance to hear them, it is always on mediocre SS gear and less than average quality sources. So, destiny threw me another chance last week. My daughter Chelsea has made a new friend through her Home School Group, and has been visiting with "Anna". This past Wednesday Chelsea decided to take part in Anna's family "Home Church" experience. I guess music is a big part of this as evidently the whole family is quite gifted in the musical realm. So, my wife Debbie picks Chelsea up, and coming home tells me that "Roy", Anna's dad -- has "big" Klipsch speakers. "Bigger than mine?" I ask. "Well, uh, umm, yes they are." "Are they big ugly boxes, or kind of triangular shaped beasts that sit back in the corners?" "Yes, they are wierd shaped things that sit in the corners of the living room." "How did they sound?" "I didn't hear them." "Chelsea!!" "Yeah Dad?" "Have you heard those big speakers at Anna's house?" "Yeah." "How do they sound? Do you like them, or do they bug your ears?" "They sound good." "How do they sound compared to mine?" "Different." "Different, how?" "I don't know, just different." "Do they sound better than mine?" "Not really...really kind of different though." "It's O.K. baby, you can tell me the truth. I won't scream or cry or ground you. Just tell me what you think. They're awesome aren't they...and they make my speakers sound like a bathroom radio?" "It's hard to tell, because they don't listen to music through them like you do." "What do you mean?" "Well, they play THEIR music through them." "You mean they use them to play and sing through?" "Yeah. They got this big thingy with all kinds of knobs and sliding things with all kinds of wires going into it." "Aaahhhhhhrrrrrrrrggggggggg" "What's wrong with Dad?" It is a fact that God's sense of humor is based on irony.

HD pegs this one. I went through a similiar experience a few months ago with a test CD. When I hit the 15K tone, I couldn't hear it. Debbie, who was downstairs watching TV about jumped off the couch. She came upstairs wanting to know "what the heck are you doing?" She joined me for a time and we found out that she could hear the tones up to 17K -- and I couldn't hear squat past 15K. I'm not deaf either, but I have spent 20 years working in computer rooms. I don't believe any high frequency loss has been related to listening sessions -- as I never listen louder than 95db. An important note: Don't jack up that volume control in an attempt to turn up the test tones so you can "hear" them -- excessive energy on those high frequencies will burn out a tweeter right quick.

Nice solution HD. I was thinking that some form of decoupling is usually necessary to get a superior quality out of the bass. OTOH, since the Scalas already have a limited response on the bass end of things -- some direct contact with the floor is probably beneficial. Seems like "the grippers" are certainly the ideal solution. Spades: I almost died when I saw Kelly's pic of his spades hanging off of the terminals by a molecule or less. I would use some emery cloth and a small dowel rod and slowly take off the metal until they "slipped" on.

For reasons unclear to me -- putting tubes on the top and SS on the bottom -- sounds like poop. When I tried it, it sounded kind of congested. What it really sounded like was a cheap SS amp --

Would certainly be nice to have a chart like this for the RF7's. Thanks Ray! I actually understand!!

"The impedance curve shows woofer and port peaks, the latter at 50 ohms, a low point between them of 5 ohms, with a high of 29 ohms in the midrange. Maybe this speaker isn't quite the answer for single-ended fans after all, since frequency response will tend to track the impedance curve with these amps in such circumstances." The above was from a review on the RB5's at this site: http://www.audio-ideas.com/reviews/loudspeakers/klipsch-rb5.html I don't understand the full implications of what he is saying, but it don't sound good:)

If you "think" you are going to hear a difference -- you will. If you don't "think" you'll hear a difference -- you won't.

Richard Marsh... ... of REL CAP Mulitcap fame. He also now runs his own company -- Marsh Sound Design, and makes some very nice looking amps and preamps.

That is the woofer for the sub section of the SP-1. It's the powered floor stander from the Synergy Series. You really need to use the correct part. Why not just call Klipsch Customer Service?

The amps were hooked up correctly. It sounded so bad we checked the phasing twice - because I myself kept thinking it sounded worse than it should. I'm sure you know by now that I have a propensity towards embellishment. It was pretty awful though.

A friend and myself played with the bridging feature of his old Adcom 555 II's about a half year ago. In bridged mode, they were barely listenable. Mark, who generally can't hear much difference between anything -- agreed that it sounded horrendous. Not only was it grainy as hell -- but it also sounded as if someone had knocked 10 db off of the bass, and then cranked a treble control all the way over. It was interesting to say the least. Bridging is bad.

John, I know Craig uses Kester 44 -- which has a rosin core. I'm sure he just meant he doesn't use any additional flux other than what's in the solder. Since I'm relatively new at this, I prefer to use a little of the paste. I use the "pointed" tool, put a little flux on it, and dab it on the joint before I put the iron to it. I found that the joint heats up much faster. I can almost put the solder to it immediately. I prefer to get in, and then get out. No one answered my original question -- which had to do with my concern regarding the flux creeping, and sucking up underneath the jacket of the wire. I was wondering if I should worry about it. I had thoughts of slicing the sleeves and going after the flux with IPA. Isn't Rosin Flux also corrosive to some degree?

And all this time I thought he had a nice set of Wright Audio Monoblocks -- and come to find out he's got those POS amps from Wright Sound.

I should sign a waiver before telling you what I think, and definitely wait for some others to respond before going off and "lighting up the world". What you got there is a 28 LB "pro" amp, utilizing switching type power supplies which they refer to as class "H" -- which I've never even heard of. Most of the switching power amps used in most of the newer subs are referred to as class "D". However, this amp retails for around $1300 normally -- and so it appears to be a quality amp (as far as pro amps go). The power rating is given as 900 watts at 4 ohms AT 1KHZ or 1000HZ. This is a crappy way to rate power. It should have said "900 watts from 20HZ to 20KHZ. So, this is the first clue they are jerking you around with the power spec. The RF7's are rated at 8 ohms -- so, with this load on the amp, it's down to 600 watts a channel (their spec). I don't know what the power of that amp would be if it was spec'd out properly (through all frequencies). The RF7's are rated to take 250 watts (each). I wouldn't take it past 10 o'clock position with the volume control knobs, and keep everyone the hell away from them -- or your RF7's are toast.

I would only add that though your placement close to the sidewalls is an issue, it's worse if you DON'T go with a horn loaded tweeter. The horn will give you a degree of controlled directivity completely absent from orthodox designs. A simple solution would be to add an acoustic foam panel between the wall and speaker. If they are toed in considerably, then move the panel down -- further away from the speaker. All in all -- who cares? The RF3's embarrass anything else in the same price range. BTW, and this is just my opinion -- but the RB5's actually sound better, come in real wood, and since you have sub... You'll also save on shipping charges.

I don't think you'll have much luck finding somone to trade a pair of Klipsch AND cash for the Vegas -- but I'm just guessing.

Same answer

Welcome to the Forum. Tough decision from the stand-point that a superior multichannel experience demands that all of your speakers be timbre matched. Maybe you should base your decision on what you enjoy more often - multichannel/movies, or 2-channel music. The RB3's will certainly deliver superior performance in almost every area as compared to the SB2's (which I owned for a few months). I say go for the RB3's, and if there is ANY way possible, go for the RB5's - which I consider to be the absolute best value in audio -- absolutely.

Craig, Weller makes a 35 watt iron (pencil style) for $50. As far as I'm concerned, the tip on that thing is worth $50 alone. It's an absolute joy to work with.

BQ -- I've heard Heritage speakers several different times over the course of 25 years, and each time I'm exposed to them -- I feel a headache coming on. They are just too damn bright for my taste. If truth be known -- if Klipsch had never made the RB5 -- I wouldn't be here. Understand -- this is a purely subjective opinion. I can't understand why you don't fall over in love with the RF7's, anymore than you can't understand why I don't fall over in love with K-horns. As far as two-ways being a step back, well -- I would certainly say we have a difference of opinion here as well. I can honestly say I have never heard a "bad" sounding two-way, but I could fill a book with the awful multi-ways I've heard. Actually, there are only two multi-way speakers I have ever heard that I liked. Incidently, by today's standards -- the RF7 is hardly a "small" speaker. Just because a speaker is the size of a washing machine does not mean everyone is going to like it. I know you know this already, sorry, I'm babbling. Hardhead, that was a great post -- I couldn't have said it better myself.

"The first note made me literally jump out of my seat." That's how I reacted when I recently heard them. After I jumped out of my seat I dove for the door. I have yet to hear any Heritage on a tube amp. I can certainly see how it could make a difference -- but I can't believe it would make THAT much difference. Don't any of guys like a little warmth with all that detail? Hmmm.

Kelly, I don't know how to say this without you thinking I'm a complete moron, but on the RF7's with stock AE-3 -- the 4004 MKII sounds much better then when I had the 3B-ST running with the Anthem Pre1L. I thought the 3B-ST sounded really good until I got the AE-25, and well -- that was the end of the Bryston. I suppose the AE-3 could account for the difference, and it would be a mistake to not factor that in -- but the Aragon sounds very good on the RF7's. It's a big, bold wonderful sound. Definitely closer to 3D in the imaging than the Bryston -- which was actually quite 2 dimensional. The Aragon does not push the image all the way to my listening position like the AE-25 -- but it's out there somewhat. The "slam" factor of the Aragon completely embarasses the Bryston. It's substantial. The Aragon does not articulate near as well as the Superamp, and the Superamp trumps it in smoothness as well. However, whatever solid state grain there is -- is barely discernable. I'm hoping that while driving the DQ's, I don't notice it at all -- as the DQ's certainly won't have the resolving power of the RF7's. I don't remember exactly, but didn't you have some experience with the Aragon? If so, I'm surprised you would find the Bryston superior. I'm sure the AE-3 has something to do with why I feel this way. I wonder sometimes if tube preamps somehow filter out the odd order harmonics of SS amplificatin to some degree. At any rate, I like the MK II. The first 50 watts of this beast are Class A -- and that's plenty for now:)

RadioShack Non-Spill Paste Rosin Soldering Flux. Seriously, how corrosive is this stuff? Should I slice the jackets and go after it?

It's fun. Tedious. Rewarding. Aggravating. Things I like: A good soldering iron: I bought a Weller. Stay away from Radio Shack irons. They're junk. Good Solder: I used Kester 44 and Cardas. Stay away from Radio Shack solder. It sucks. Flux: You can solder without it, but it's painful. Everything heats up twice as fast with flux -- and that's a good thing. http://www.mouser.com http://www.madisound.com http://www.percyaudio.com http://www.soniccraft.com Great customer service, and always have everything and anything you need. Things I don't like: Sanding, priming, and painting. Cheap soldering irons. You make a connection, then have to wait 5 minutes for the tip to heat up again. I went through three of these. I started with 15 watts, then 30 watts, then 45 watts -- all the same. Junk. The 35 watt Weller is always hot and always ready. Solder that's advertised to melt at 370 degrees, but doesn't until the soldering iron tip melts. Flux: It goes wherever the solder leads. Usually underneath the sleeve covering the wire where you can't get to it. I hope it's non-corrosive, cause I AM NOT going after it. Well, it's Radio Shack flux. The cables will probably rot off within the next 6 months. http://www.regnar.com I'm not saying why cause I don't want to be sued.

"It's during times like this that we most need to keep our heads..." Bad choice of words Tom:) Now Ranger, I'm no history expert, but context clearly showed that these were places men gave up the ghost for the advacement of freedom. Uh...did I guess right? BTW - the Mitsubishi Zero was a hell of an aircraft. Kenratboy's thinking frightens me a little: "But, the plain truth is that the odds of getting it are slim to none, so it's not like he has killed 10,000 people. There are probably 5-10,000,000 people in that entire area, so 11 people, the odds are not horrible." Hmmm. I'm sure those 11 people would have pretty much thought the same thing before it started. Once he scopes you in, the stats don't mean very much. The other part of "odds" is "probability". Since we can't filter the factors being used by the killer, it's pretty much impossible to come up with real odds. For example: gas pumpers appear to be at higher risk than people that come out of Mcdonald's every day. If I give you a box of guns and tell you there is "only one bullet in there" -- how comfortable do you feel randomly taking one of the box, pointing it at your head, and pulling the trigger? I mean, the odds are real good you won't blow your head off:)