yromj

Just run the new HDTV feed from the cable box to the TV. It takes the highest bandwidth, and it would require the least amount of work. Win + win! John

---------------- On 4/4/2004 3:05:33 PM nutoht wrote: I am looking at buying a home theater system. Based on some research and my budget I am thinking of geting the following: Denon AVR-1804 receiver 1 RCX4 ($250) 2 RBX15 (I assume you mean RB-15s, $300) 2 RSX4 ($600) 1 RW10 ($500) - Total MSRP = $1,650 I am hoping that someone will help a beginner validate this decision or tell me why or what I should do differently. This is already a little rich for me, however, I don't want to buy something that I am going to want to upgrade in the near future. Thanks for any help!---------------- For almost the exact same amount of money you get 2 pairs of RB-25s (MSRP $400/pr) and an RC-25 (MSRP $280) and an SVS 25-31(MSRP $549 ). (MSRP Total = $1,629). This would give you a very nice HT and be better for 2 channel listening. If you have needs for a sattelite system, I certainly understand that and the RSXs are nice. However, the bookshelves can be wall mounted as well. Just something to consider, John

---------------- On 4/4/2004 6:11:59 AM dr-dezibel wrote: I had the marantz sr7400 and the yamaha RX-V2400 in choice and took the yammie because of it's unique features (YAPO, Video-conversion, equalizer, best DSP-programs). To me the receivers in this price class sound very similar. Another important reason: I have had several Yamaha components and had never any trouble with them. My friends who have yamaha component also never had trouble with them. Take the Yammie! ---------------- The 2400 does have a couple of features that the 7400 doesn't have, namely auto-setup and THX processing/certification. However, these aren't very important to me. The Marantz does have the video up-conversion, though. The equalizer and DSPs aren't much of an issue w/ me either. Besides the Marantz has treble/bass adjustments available from the remote. The two I'll be comparing though are the 1400 and the 7400, because of price. The 7400 has two major benefits to me over the 1400, the RS232 port and the remote, which is the best remote I've seen in a unit in this price range. Yamaha's dependability is awesome though, there's no doubt about that. In the end it's going to come down to sound quality. John

I'm trying to approach this test objectively, but I've got to be honest. I love the features of the Marantz so much that I'm hoping it sounds at least as good as the 1400. The biggest features it has going for it, IMHO, are the macro-capable remote and the upgradability via RS232. John

I've got two receivers coming which should be here in a week or so. I've got a Yamaha 1400 and a Marantz SR7400 coming. I'm going to A/B them at home. (By A/B I mean have them for the same time period, not switch instantly back and forth between them.) Has anyone heard anything about that particular Marantz. I heard that the early models had problems w/ heat and audio drop-out, but they've supposedly fixed the problem. Any other thoughts will be appreciated. John- Who's fascinated w/ the 7400's remote.

---------------- On 3/31/2004 11:37:52 PM toddvj wrote: Agreed, but if you are using RF-7s exclusively for HT, you are "robbing" yourself. Anyone who thinks that the bass will be muddy if you send the RF-7s a full range either hasn't listened to the speakers, or is running a Subwoofer that isn't set correctly, IMO. I would definitely feel comfortable running these speakers WITHOUT a sub and know that they would sound great. ---------------- I agree that the RF-7s are AWESOME for 2 channel. (In fact my personal preference would be the RB-75s if it were for 100% HT, but that's just MY preference.) I should have made myself more clear on what I was saying about being muddy. I've heard the RF-7s in a few different setups now and have never heard them to be muddy at all. What I was trying to say was that you may be able to achieve even more clarity by setting them to small. Again, this is more apt to be true in an HT because of the signals from the other channels being sent to the mains. Discussions about this are fun, but trying new things and hearing the results for yourself is the MOST fun!! John

Setting your speakers to small doesn't "rob" them of anything, especially in HT. First off cross-overs are not absolute walls, but operate on slopes. Most have 18-24 dB/octave slope. Therefore, just because you set a cross-over to 60 dB doesn't mean the mains are sent NO signal at all below 60 dB. That's just where the "transition", if you will, begins to take place. The reason I said "especially in HT" is that there is another result for setting your speakers to large in HT. That is your mains are not only sent their full range signal, but also the low end from the OTHER speakers as well. This can muddy things up. (BTW, I mentioned the mid-range being more clear because the same driver is doing the bass and the midrange. Therefore, if that driver can be used for less bass then the midrange will clear up because the effects things such as Doppler distortion are minimized.) The bottom line is "small or large" is not the best term the industry could have used for this setting. Just remember to tweak and listen. The only thing that really matters is how they sound to YOU. John

I'm going to pitch my 2 pennies in the pot. Since you're looking a year down the road, your best bet is to start spending time listening to as many brands of electronics teamed up with Klipsch speakers as you can. You'll find that different brands have different sonic qualities. All good brands will probably sound very clear have good detail. However, they will each have their own subtleties making them unique. Listen to them w/ RF-7s, because that's probably what you'll be getting speaker wise. As you listen make notes about what you liked and disliked. As you continue to listen to nice equipment and read forums such as this one, you will be able to discern what you're looking for. Then when the time comes, you'll be able to make wise decisions. You are going to have a fun journey ahead of you! Enjoy the ride, John PS Check out Sound & Vision Forums as well.

There is one other issue to consider when setting your speakers up, and that is midrange clarity. Some people have found that the midrange is more clear when they set their speakers to small. The best thing to do is experiment...errr...tweak. Enjoy the process, John

Man, this thread has wondered quite a ways from where it started. It's been great reading though. I've heard of gear I never knew of before. Reading about this higher end stuff is always very enlightening. One thing is for sure. When you mention Rotel you have stepped onto another plateau of fidelity. By that I mean I doubt if very much of this discussion would have taken place in a thread titled "Is Harmon Kardon REally THAT Good?" (No offense to the H/Kers out there, it's just an example.) Unfortunately, the Rotel would be overkill in my system and I just can't justify spending the extra $$$ on it. Someday, though, someday. John- Who hopes more discussion of this high-end gear continues.

For quality speaker wire check Home Depot etc. You can also check out http://www.partsexpress.com. They have quality stuff for reasonable prices. 12ga. is probably the best bang for the buck. Anything beyond that is overkill for any runs less than ~100'. (Even at that length 12ga. would probably suffice.) You can also find some quality banana plugs etc. there as well. John

---------------- On 3/29/2004 11:14:27 PM Underhanded Penguin wrote: You can look at biwiring as more bandwidth. Two cables is thicker than one cable. And generally speaking, the thicker the cable the better. That's how I see it anyhow. ---------------- U.P., Electrically speaking that is the correct way to look at it. The two sets of posts on the back of the speaker are still wired to the same cross-over inside the speaker. Therefore, the signal is not being split until it gets to the cross-overs regardless of bi-wiring. Bi-wiring reduces electrical resistance, period. John

---------------- On 3/26/2004 12:29:58 PM Efontaine wrote: I am looking at these speakers for both HT and music. I am more concerned with the music rather than the HT side. I am looking at these also because of their size. I would like to mount the surrounds on the wall rather than leave speakers around the floor where kids might poke holes in or knock off stands. I guess you have these as your complete system? How does the music sound? If you don't mind me asking, was it worth the $$ paid? Thanks ---------------- My system consists of RB-25s for the fronts, RC-25 for the center, and RS-25s for the surrounds. Was it worth the $$?? OH YEA!!! After I got the front 3 hooked up I played the THX rain intro and my WIFE got a big !! I told her she wasn't supposed to like this stuff this much and she said, "I didn't know they were going to sound THAT GOOD!" Keep in mind that was a jump from the Quintets to the reference series which is pretty sizeable step...errr...leap. The main reason I started looking to upgrade was for music. Whenever I played 2 channel stuff, the bass was too localized and the mid-range was a little thin. The Quintets go down to 100Hz and the KSW-10 can go up to 120Hz, but that's not really enough overlap between the two. For movies, since they are recorded in the x.1 format, the bass was already encoded into the .1 channel, thus making the effect less noticeable. I have no doubt that the RSX system will sound great. (I trust avman's opinion 100%.) I'm simply suggesting that you may want to look into mounting some RB-25s on the walls instead of the RSXs. The retail prices for the RSX-5s are the same as the RB-25s and the RB-25s go down to 49Hz compared to 92Hz for the RSX-5s. (That's virtually one octave lower.) Enjoy the hunt, John

I haven't gotten to hear them yet. (I've seen them several times and they do look good.) I recently upgraded from the Quintet sat system to RB-25s mainly for improved music capability. If you're primarily interested in HT, the sats will be fabulous. If you're going to be doing more than about 30% music, I would seriously consider bookshelves (which can also be mounted on the wall). John

---------------- On 3/25/2004 12:09:50 AM wheelman wrote: I got some oxiclean for carpet going to give it a try tonight. If that fail they look pretty nice without the grills black and white contrast looks nice. ---------------- I agree w/ that. My RS-25s look good w/o the grills. I also like the fact that the white grills let the copper show through. John

I've been slightly considering the Rotel 1056 over the Yammy 2400 or Denon 3805. The Rotel doesn't have one key feature that I want, 6/7.1 out of the box. (It requires an outboard amp for the extra 2 channels.) I've never gotten to hear Rotel and Klipsch together, but I'm hearing that Rotel has a much more "audiophile" sound to it. In other words I'm hearing that the sound is more along the line of seperates than the others. Can anyone verify/dispute this? The 1056 is a little more than the Yammy, but about the same price as the 3805. Of course the 3805 has a lot more features and is 7.1. I hate this, I started out looking for something in the $500-$800 range and now I'm actually considering something over $1k. John- Who thinks when all is said done the 1400 or 2803 will make him very happy.

---------------- On 3/24/2004 12:32:26 AM kenratboy wrote: Buy while grill cloth and have your wife put them on the grill frames? Make it a team effort, and if they look bad, its not all your fault ---------------- It may not be all my fault, but that doesn't mean I won't catch all the flak! John

---------------- On 3/24/2004 8:30:21 AM marksdad wrote: depending on budget b&k easily beats all avr's mentioned, do yourself a favor and spend some time auditioning, once you buy it you will have to live with it, so you might as well be satisfied ---------------- How much does a B&K receiver cost? Just curious. John

Nice, very nice. BTW, our wives must have similar taste in furniture because we have the same coffee table. John

You've got some very nice gear and it should sound great. Double check the polarity of the speakers and make sure they are in phase with each other. A setup DVD like Sound & Vision Home Theater Tune Up or AVIA will help confirm this. Are you running a digital cable (optical or coax) to your receiver from your DVD player or are you running the six analog cables? You want to run some kind of digital cable at first to let your receiver do the decoding and handle bass management. Lastly, your sub could have been set too "hot". Try turning the volume down on the sub itself. Also, are you using a line level connection to the sub (RCA cable) or speaker level (running speaker wire)? Try using the line level connection and set your cross-over to 80Hz. I know you've set your speakers to large, but you may want to check that anyway. (You may want to try setting them to small and enabling your sub and let your sub handle all the really low stuff. This usually clears up the midrange and it gives your receiver more headroom.) Enjoy your new gear and ask questions! John

My local HT shop is going to be getting some higher end Yammies in stock pretty soon. I'm going to demo a 1400 and 2400 at home. My hunch is that I'll end up w/ a 1400 and an RS-25 because I believe this will be the same price as a 2400. I just don't see enough differences in the featuresets to make me spend the extra money. Does anybody (that means you avman) have any experience w/ the 2nd zone on the Yammie? Does it require a 2nd amp? How many channels can be playing in zone 1 and I still be able to use zone 2? John

---------------- On 3/22/2004 5:30:04 PM Bill H. wrote: yromj, Not be a smart Aleck, but have you considered maybe buying some Used RB 25's and just Painting them? (I know-horrors of horrors), Just an Idea that would get You the speakers and improve the WAF............... Good Luck. ---------------- Bill, The thought of painting some speakers went thru my head for about 0.3 seconds. The main factor in not considering it is the grills. I really don't think anything short of acquiring some white grills from Klipsch would make them look good and I assumed that Klipsch doesn't have white grills for the RB-25s. Also, this is all in the past because now I'm using the RS-25s and they sound pretty good. Personally, I think the RB-25s would sound better, but it's probably not worth the hassle. In fact I'm going to get another RS-25 to use for the 6th channel when I upgrade my receiver. John

---------------- On 3/23/2004 5:03:55 PM bdmiller wrote: I have been considering upgrading my 5.1 reciever to 7.1. I have RB-3's and an RC-3 II up front and 2 old speakers as rears. After shelling out $500-700 on my reciever, I am going to be strapped for cash, so putting 4 reference surrounds in the rear is not a current option. I can get klipsch quintets for about $50 each on ebay. Would this be a big mistake, or would this be an acceptable holdover until I can buy matching reference series surrounds? I hear alot about timbre and voice matching in this forum. How far apart are these speakers , and how important is timbre matching from front to back? ---------------- I used my Quintets for a couple of weeks while I was waiting for funds for my surrounds. I was surprised at how well they kept up w/ my RB/RC-25s. They sounded pretty good. I had to bump their levels up a few dBs but that was all. You're looking at using them as the rears in the 7.1, correct? I would think they would suffice you for a while. John PS- I can sell you a pair of white or black. PM me if you're interested.

That may seem kind of silly until you think about this. A lot of people, myself included, are using bookshelves for HT. I was originally planning on using 4 RB-25s and an RC-25 'til I was told by the wife that I wasn't putting "that big black thing" on the wall. (It would have been directly in the line of sight when you first walked into the house.) I brought home a pair of white RS-25s just to "try" and she informed me that those were the ones that were staying. However, if the RB-25s would have been available in white, I could have my ideal HT. Has anybody heard if Klipsch may be considering this? John

jeph, 4 (or 5 or even 6) bookshelves all around would be great. First, the bookshelves go almost as low as their floorstanding counterparts (37Hz for the RF-35, 45Hz for the RB-35.) Since you're getting a sub, which you'll probably cross-over @ 80Hz, the slight difference in bottom end performance will be unnoticeable. Secondly bookshelves can be placed more flexibly, especially regarding height. Third, and finally, the bookshelves, even when including stands, are considerably cheaper which means you may be able to upgrade to the next step in speakers or electronics, or go to 6.1/7.1 for the same money. A bookshelf HT would not be "wimpy". John