CAS

Who are you? Mr. TC?

That's a bit of a carried-over "what can we still say now to make ours look better" statement. Have you heard a TV-12 or brand new Ultra-13? JL by any means isn't the top of the line in SQ and SVS isn't the bottom. I know you're a "MUSIC" guy, but to bash like the above especially with the high-quality driver in question sounds like sour grapes [] Finesse? If sealed is your taste the Ultra-13 is designed for that, too with the included plugs. Slap the 7-year old W7 in a sealed box with pretty lights, mark up the price and call it finesse? If you want to I guess. Sorry, I'm not trying to sell either one and I apologize for the slight bash, just a reaction; it just seems like whatever product SVS comes out with some people will always have negative things to say. It's the Pepsi/sub challenge; put them side by side with a blindfold on and I bet you a paycheck you'd have to eat your words. [:^)]

Driver move more air?...maybe a little. Output?...maybe not. Based on JL's own output measurements and taking into consideration the SVS encosure's increased size and ported nature my money would be on the SVS, granted it doesn't look like it'd be much. About the amp, I don't see huge differences. Both digital switching amps around 1 kw, both eq'd and both designed/created for the specific parameters of their respective subs.

Uh oh, looks like censorship software has been employed for some SVS model names [:#]

These look like fairly comperable products with a few electronic exceptions, and the fact that the JL costs more than twice as much. I'm eager to hear what the Ultra-13 driver sounds like as its TV-12 predecessor was a tank itself. The rosenut finish with curved metal grill looks awesome.

That's the best option

Nah, we won't bash too hard! I've built a gaggle of DIY's in all sorts of configurations including one very much like my own SVS. Saved some cash? Sure. Better output? It's not rocket science; just all in the design. Annihilate? Not really. That's their market. I say no because, while I certainly have experience in construction, the SVS machine is no slouch. While DIY is the absolute best value and always will be, with the peripherals - variable tuning ports, warranty, customer service, return policy, etc, the SVS comes pretty close. Now when it comes to uber multi-k subs then your DIY factor goes WAY up. You can turn a $3k piece into a $1k backyard project in a long weekend.

To a large degree. I'm a pilot and wouldn't take a plane up with one of those unshielded unless I was VFR on a sunny day!

With the caliber of your current equipment why would you want such a tiny sub? You'll move tons more air with your RF-7's than that sub would move (granted at lower frequencies). You spent a grand on each of those, you should spend at least that on your sub. But if that's where you want to stay then I don't see any other option but the 10-NSD. So to answer your question...No. It won't be as musical as your RF-7's and it won't keep up with them. Comparitively you'll need a much larger sub to compliment your current system appropriately.

That's anecdotal evidence and it also represents expectational bias. To really see if there was a difference in sound quality, and not simply the volume, you'd have to do a proper double-blinded test, making certain that the sub's output was level-adjusted in each circumstance. Using both inputs simply increases the volume of the sub at any particular volume and subwoofer trim level setting in the receiver. This same volume increase can also be easily obtained with the single RCA cable connection by simply turning up the volume level at the subwoofer, itself. Exactly correct. It gives you no advantage (unless you think it looks cool). It's the very same thing as turning your sub up a notch. Save your $.

Space can be a real issue. Really good compact subs can be hard to come by. Size is volume. I hate science. I can never get around it.

That made me laugh until I teared a little!!!

Certainly fine. More power is always better but this is definitely sufficient.

Depends a bit on the capabilities of your sub vs your mains. RF-35's are pretty potent, but if your sub does a better job of reproducing under 80Hz (powered sub) then it will take away some stress on your receiver to provide a cleaner signal. I'd probably stick with small if HT is your goal, but it's always up to you.

You may have stumbled upon the answer to my problem. 'stumbled'? With all due respect, Bob's been at this for a couple of decades. He does not stumble. Roc, you'e getting good advice here from many different fronts. Can't be coincidence. I was late to this party, read the remainder of the thread, sounds like the JL guys gave you some great advice, Doc's 'Hoffman' slide was right on, a good lesson all the way around. So is it taming down? No Michael. "Taming down" are not the key words here. I need strong bass volume. My issue is whether or not I need a second sub or room treatments for the one f-113 sub. I need to figure this out quickly. JL is raising their prices effective June 1. I tried lowering the volume but that was disappointing to me. The room is 23 x 22 x 7.3 so it is not that small. The question is: Will a second sub enhance my listening experience through higher volume or is the lack of proper room treatments keeping my one f-113 from producing higher volumes? I would suggest the custon route. It seems if the F113 is not enough, you should look into this. You may be able to get custon dual 18" and serious amps for about the price of the F113. Just a thought. Also, be careful with the SPL, you can cause permanent damage. Agreed. I think if you're looking to blow the windows out with SPL then two F113's for $6k may not be the answer. At the volumes you're wanting your $3k - $6k may be better used somewhere else (unless of course $6k doesn't cut into your monthly budget...I'm assuming it would). If you don't have any qualms about dishing out the cash for a super sub that's another story. A couple dual driver SVS Plus or Ultra subs are another option...and that'll keep you around or under the $3k mark. If that doesn't satisfy your appetite then DIY would be the way to go.

B - E - A - UTIFUL. What are it's design specs?

Hmm. Hard telling exactly what you'll like better. In my experience I would equate the sound from two RW-12d's to be a little sharper, and the PB-12+2 to be more capable of moving your furniture. You'll be surprised how different they sound.

Proper calibration is essential. Your dials set all the way up is not healthy at these volumes. Everything has a limit I sounds perhaps like you're expecting too much. Your $3k isn't all SPL, it's about clarity and realism, too. Are you used to car audio where the bass can literally suck the breath out of you? Home theater subs won't work like that (of course there are extreme exceptions).

True, I put nearly zero stock in magazine articles but why would they feature something like this? It's just a big expensive house with lots of little speakers in the ceilings. I have that too, it's called an intercom.

Howard Stern's producer Gary recently bought a new house with an audio/video media install I'm sure well in excess of $100k (it was even featured in Sound and Vision mag). That being said the speakers in his equipment list are great and mighty 6 !/2" ceiling speakers at a whopping $150 bucks a piece and the only subwoofer in his house also uses a 6 1/2"driver. He ponied up almost $300 bucks for that monster. He says he likes to turn it up real loud when he's alone. Maybe he just listens to Howard talk?

You don't go much lower than that one to be sure. These 2 brands are different animals; best bang for your buck out there minus DIY (even considering the time I've spent with DIY the savings/performance difference isn't hugely remarkable). Unfortunately I've sold all of my DIY subs for a profit so I'm all SVS for the time being. Would definitely recommend.

Sure it can be shipped, but it would cost at least a couple hundred dollars in shipping materials and freight charges. I can't believe nobody has pounced on this! If I were in the area I'd buy it just because! But I don't think SVS is feeling any "heat." Not at triple the price

Never did understand that royal device thing. Is this guy more proud of his living room or the little silver amp things? I always get bored and never read through it. But it does irk me to see all of that grace and power his equipment is capable of...yet on the screen it looks like he's playing some bluegrass accoustical guitar concert garbage. Not that bluegrass is bad, but what a waste.

Your receiver may say it's too loud because all you're getting with that JBL is midbass Yes, your mains and otherwise are lions, your sub is a mouse Your RF-82's full range probably put out more low frequency than your sub.