mikebse2a3

Coytee said: So, can a blowing fuse, cause a tube to glow a bit during that process or by definitino, by seeing that glow in tube, do I FOR SURE, have a problem? Anyways, I turned it off and learned something else. I had the volume up a bit (to very quiet level) and turned it off... well, unlike my SS stuff, this didn't turn "off" at the flick of the switch, it sort of coasted off and faded away as it died. Not sure if tubes are supposed to do that or not, but that's what happened. --------------------------------- Coytee my guess is if you saw a flash in one of the 6550 output tubes then you probably have an intermittent short in that tube which will eventually show up again.Since your fuse blew so hard(blackened glass as opposed to just a slightly open fuse element indicates to me a heavey overcurrent draw(short)not just a failure of the fuse.I personnely would want to replace that tube or that pair if they are matched. Also the sound slowly dying away is just the power supply discharging its energy storage and is completely normal. mike

There is mention of the woofer inductor in the DOPE FROM HOPE March 1972 Vol. 12, No. 2 about electronic crossover. It mentions an improvement of the peak to trough measurement in the 250-350 Hz range but found to be inaudible to all listeners under controlled conditions. mike

Hi Dr WHO I have a Musical Fidelity CDPre/24 and I wanted to take advantage of the Upsampling Dac in it so I decided to use the analog in/out of the Behringer and to be honest I was so happy with the results I didn't worry what it might be like using the digital input but somewhere down the road I'll probably try it just out of curiosity. mike

I love collecting information and articles like these you post. Gil I really appreciate the time you take to post these articles for us! mike

Richard said: I presumed I blew a fuse, didn't see a fuse anywhere. I got the manual out and it CLEARLY shows a fuse right next to where the power cord goes into the rear right corner. Guess what? my unit does NOT have a fuse in that location. The manual does NOT show an extra ground connector. guess what, my amp HAS that ground connector. All the sudden, the hum changed somehow, was so short, I didn't really have time to digest it. I then noticed the far left power tube (6550) had for a short duration, a bright flair inside of it. Interestingly enough, just other evening I was looking at the far RIGHT tube and noticed what I thought to be a red glowing dot on the very top of the inside structure. It seemed to have a higher glow there than the other three. ------------------------------------------------ Richard I'm not sure in your case but some equipment has the main power fuse holder as an integral part of the AC socket on the back of the unit that you plug the AC cord into so you might want to look real close at it. Like others have said the tube with the bright flair probably has a short in it which might not show up unless under a load but anytime you see a "arching flash" in a tube it should be replaced before it has time to damage other circuity. If your tubes getter(this is how they burn off any residule gas when the tube was made and leaves a dark or silvery area on the glass envelope) is located toward the top then looking through it toward the filament structure of the tube you might notice a difference in brightness due to the variation in the getter deposits left on the different tubes and isn't a sign of any problems with the tube. But if you see any Arching/Flashing light in a tube then it should immediatly be replaced as soon as possible. mike

Thanks Lee When I get a chance I will sure try the methods you outlined above. I was hoping and appreciate you telling us your methods for using the Behringer especially since you have had one for awhile now. Thanks for the advice mike

Yes I would describe it as purple on my K55-M mike

Hi Bill When I bought my Khorns used many years ago they had been updated with different crossovers and K55-M squawkers which had a "R" stamped on them. When I contacted Klipsch they told me that because replacement drivers carried a different warranty period they where marked with a "R" so they could identify them but otherwise same high quality drivers. mike

Thanks Jim I believe I got a little lucky with the first few curves I ran and I'm very pleased with those results. But you know how it is I've just got to see how far I can improve things and see how things are interacting which is just fascinating to me so I'm sure I'll be trying different curves and learning for awhile . On the subject of ignoring excessive dips and peaks is something I have been doing. On a few curves their where one or two freq. where the AutoEQ wanted to correct with up to 8db of boost or cut and I noticed if you tweeked those frequency there really wasn't any real audible improvement with these large corrections so I decided most adjustments that I make will stay within a +/- 4db window because anymore seems pointless and maybe they are caused by things that aren't really that audible to our ears and if they where audible then I believe I would try to hunt down and solve what was causing it with setup and/or acoustical treatment methods. I really appreciate your advice Jim! mike

Wolfram said: "and it seems that any 'digital' shortcoming is perhaps less serious than room influences." Yes! For most of us the room is the weakest link in the chain. After just a few days with this unit I Lost any concern in using it within my tube based system. mike

Hi Colin Yes the Mic was in the same spot. One other observation is when you run a curve on just one channel the correction required larger variations of say instead of 3.5db some where 5db to 8db. I believe when you run just one channel the farfield is less even in this case because you don't have the contribution of the other channel possibly smoothing out the farfield response where the Mic and we are located. It definitly sounded smoother and measured smoother when both channels where used in the setup with Auto EQ function. mike

Michael Or anyone else with thoughts or experience on this would be appreciated. What I noticed tonight when I ran a couple of independent curves on the left and right channels was that I didn't like it as well as when I had both channels with the same response curves. (This is what I mean by this EQ being so easy to use it invites experimenting which I hope will lead me to a better understanding of how I'm hearing sound in my room) Now I realize that when we EQ a speaker/room where going to affect the first response as well as the farfield room response(where most of us sit). I believe the reason for this was that by altering the left and right speakers independently that the first response was thrown out of balance for the left and right channel and somehow that wasn't perceived as natural somehow. But when I alter both channels the same at least for the most part the first response is altered the same for both speakers and was better accepted by me. Now I do believe that Adjusting the Left and Right Speakers indepently for different boundry loading say below 200hz or so but leaving every thing else above equal might be of benefit in some situations but in my case the speakers see pretty much the same boundry qualities. Anyway this was just an observation in my situation and I appreciate anyone elses thoughts or experiences on this. Thanks mike

Michael and Jim FWIW my thoughts are: After using this Digital EQ I want to encourage anyone interested in trying an EQ "have an open mind toward the many important benefits that this unit has because it does operate in the digital domain. One of the main reasons I became interested(cautious but with an open mind) in this unit was the fact that it does operate in the digital domain and by doing that there is the possibility (if the design of the unit is done correctly) of reducing or eliminating some of the drawbacks of analog EQs like phase shifts and interaction with adjacent bands. Once you've accepted Digital equipment in your audiophile system such as a CD,SACD or other types of digitally recorded music then why would we not have an open mind toward something Like a Digital EQ? As long as a piece of equipment Analog or Digital can pass the signal through itself with the only alteration to the signal being what we asked it to do then I believe it would be wise to have an open mind toward Digital Equipment as well. I would encourage anyone wanting to try an EQ even in there Analog system to not let the fact that its a digital piece scare you away from it.In fact could you imagine what it would cost to have such a high quality RTA, Analog 1/3 octave EQ and a Analog 10 Band Parametric Eq. all with Auto EQ and Memory capabilities which I believe is "extremely important" to assist in sucessfully determing what the best EQ settings will be in our always unique situations. mike

Thanks Trey I want to thank "All Of You" and Klipsch who take the time to take care of the bulletin board for us. Its just a great place to spend time. mike

Thanks Jim For anyone interested in the Behringer ECM8000 Mic I purchased it from Guitar Center for $40 and also the Behringer webb site has a $15 rebate on it and a $50 rebate on the DEQ2496 equalizer till the end of Jan. in the United States. Wolfram did you pick up the used EQ? Vacation over so back to work for me. As I get a chance to get more familiar with the other features I'll try to post anything else I think you might be interested in. mike

Q-Man I've had the same problem. Was begining to think I was the only one. I've been banned about every day this last week and the last few days my E-Mail to the webmaster comes back as undelivered. mike

Thanks for the info Jim So I have Two questions for you. (1) Why do you suggest the Mic be placed 6" to 10" above ear height? (2) So far I have read nothing in the info on the Behringer Mic suggesting what orientation to use so I've been using it Positioned Vertically(pointed toward ceiling)since its an Omni-directional type and I seem to be getting good results. But do you know or have info that suggest proper orientation for it? Thanks mike

Hi Wolfram I understand what your saying about your ability to treat and change the room setup around. I sincerely believe you will realize some very worth while benefits from one of these EQs especially since you have few other options in your living room. I also believe you won't have any problems learning how best to use the EQ once you get your hands on one. Let us know how things go when you get one. mike PS: Still having trouble with the forum banning me so if I haven't responded to anyone that will be why most likely.

Wolfram I normally would be very cautious about telling anyone what they might want to do or buy when it comes to audio.I would also suggest to anyone that they should always try to get a trial period with anything there not familiar with. The reason I'm suggesting you try one for a trial period is because I see a real interest on your part for this kind of unit.I had the same kind of interset and decided it would make alot of sense to see what the newest technology had to offer in EQs especially since I could see how if a unit like this ones capabilitys had a real potential if its analyzing and programing abilities really worked then they could solve some of my system/rooms problems . I hate the idea of taking things back but if it works like they tell you then It seems reasonable to want a trial period to see that it can do what you need and they say.I knew within a few hours use that I would be keeping it which really suprised me because I just didn't expect such an overall improvement in my system.The other thing I really like is the educational ability that comes with using the RTA to really look into the siginal and room responces and visualy see and relate this to understanding what is required for the system/room.To me the Auto EQ feature is very important because it gets you in the ball park very quickly and the easier a unit is to use the more likely you will learn what you need to make the best out of your particular system/room needs are. I will gladly answer any questions I can for you and If you do pick one up I really want to know how it works out for you also. mike

Hey Wolfram and anyone else interested. I took a pink noise cd and using the RTA I added these adjustments in the GEQ module to what the Auto EQ had already selected above 100hz 100 -3.5db 80 +4db 63 +3.5db 50hz -.5db 40hz -5db Except for a couple of settings the EQ settings are all within a 3.5db window at this time. Some of these adjustments(I'm thinking like the 40hz & 80hz) in these low ranges might be even better if done with the Parametric EQ Module which I will try later when I have more time to run test. I'm telling you this is the best money I've spent on my system in years.I kid you not I'll set there trying to listen to a few songs to see what I think of the EQ settings I'm trying and next thing I know I've listened to two CDs completely through. I can't think of a better compliment to give this EQ. The Clarity and being able to hear into the recordings is something I'm really enjoying. Vocals are everything I could hope for.There is a better since of Depth in the imaging also. All this makes since if this is a real improvement to my system/room I would expect improvements in all these areas since these are all really tied together.Best of all I've not heard anything that I feel would be a draw back to using this EQ. Happy New Year to everyone!!! mike Wolfram the DSP8024 I was told was an earlier model and I noticed there wasn't a price listed on the Behringer webbsite but if you can get one at a good price you might want to check it out. You know I could tell you all day the improvements I'm getting but The only way for you or anyone to know is to try one like I'm doing and see if it works for your problems which from what IMHO believe except for a few really ideal rooms anyone will notice some very worth while improvements.

Colin ask; (1) 2a3man, what did you learn about your room EQ? Answer: The room seems to cause what appear to be errors of +/- 3.5db and they fall in the area where diffusors and other treatments start loosing effect and the room size is the controling factor. (2) what three things would you tell a newbie about the DEQ2496? Answers: First: the DEQ2496 doesn't seem to have the drawbacks and limitations of the old analog EQs. I can't tell any loss of clarity and because of the Auto EQ and Memory ability you can really begin to understand and start dealing with problems in your system/room fairly quickly. Second: The most important thing to me is that clarity and a feeling for the real emotions of the music have been allowed to come out in my system/room. My ultimate goal for my system/room is to walk in the room set down and be drawn into the music just like a real performance should do.I want to feel like the performers are real flesh and blood people. Third: A good EQ such as this would probably be better money spent than what most of us have fallen into at one time or another which is to constantly be thinking that a different piece of equipment,cables and accessories might cure things when most the time its just doesn't really get at the real weakness in our systems(Our Listening Rooms). (3) what/who did you use for interconnects? make your own? did you get a microphone extension cable? Answer: cables are (2)Hosa XRM-105 and (2) Hosa XRF-105 unbalanced cables to allow me to go from RCA to XLR connections. There might be better cable setups to go with but since I was just trying the unit I went with the basic cables they had and I must say I'm really pleased with the results I'm getting with these. $22 total for four cables. Yes I also bought a 20' Mic cable (4) did you use the FBD yet? Answer: No haven't had time to use anything but the GEQ so far and I believe the FBD is more for feedback control from what I've read on it. It is going to take a while to really fine tune and fully use all this EQ's features to there best effect but thats what has impressed me so much is in just a few hours of use I've gotten such important improvements to me and I really didn't expect that to happen. Colin said: thanks Lee, I loved the smooth evenness across the entire spectrum with your system and that is why I am playing with it now! ------ Colin the above statment says something important because that is exactly something that hit me very quickly which was a more relaxed listening experience with a more natural and smooth responce. mike

Hey Wolfram I'm sure after I've lived with this unit a little longer I can give better info but this is what I know so far. If you use it between your pre and power amps then it will be able to work for all your sources. I'm mostly interested at this point in being able to do room correction but with this unit and its ability to store different responce curves it would easly allow you to do corrections for any sources you have. The RTA is a Real Time Analyzer and it has the ability to allow you to look at the input signal or output signal to the Behringer EQ as well as if you get the ECM8000 Omnidirectional Measurement Microphone to analyze the room.You can use the Auto EQ feature with the Mic to analyze the room and develope responce curves that will get you started but I can see where you might want to alter these curves based on futher listening or lets say if you had small speakers for example you wouldn't want to boost the bass beyond the speakers mechanical or power limits so your final results will probably need to be tweeked by ear and attention to equipment needs. In the manual they suggest you not use the Auto EQ feature for freq. below approx. 100hz because it can cause inaccuracies during the calculations of the freq. responce which might impair the results achieved with the Auto EQ. The EQ will adj freq. down to 20hz but its best to exempt them from the Auto EQ feature when you run it then adjust these lower bands by Ear and other test sources with the RTA Screen. If you can find one to try I believe you would get use to it fairly quickly. I'm just scratching the surface so far with what this unit is capable of. The RTA is a real eye opener when you see how much of the sound we listen to is in the area of freq. where alot of diffusers and room treatments start loseing effect and the room dimensions are taking control of the sound our speakers are puting out. mike

Hey guys the bulletin board had me banned again today so sorry for not being able to respond back to anyone. Hope this post works! Am I the only one having this trouble? mike

Hello Wolfram The unit can be hooked up through digital or balanced inputs/outputs. Right now I've kept it simple and am using a RCA to XLR adapter cables. I've installed the unit between the CD player and Pre-amp.You should be able to install it before your power-amp if you have several sources in your system.The unit has not added any noise in my system with Khorns. AS far as using it, I must say reading the manual was more complicated than just hooking it up and doing a little hands on playing. Once I started using it I started getting pretty acustom to each knob/buttons function.Its was kind of like using a simple computer menu. Their is a Auto-EQ function that you can use to get started and I ran a couple of curves with the 1/3 octave EQ last night with the Mic in my listening location. One with doors(2) open to the room and one with doors closed. They both sounded very good and I did lower the boost it wanted to give me at the very highest range of the tweeter(4.5db instead of 8db because the highs were hitting some diffusors next to this door(when open) sending alot of the range out of the room). with the doors open.Also below 100hz they suggest not using the Auto-EQ to set these so adjusting these freq. by ear is called for.With doors closed +/- 3.5 db was all the boost or cut was asked for in the Auto-Eq mode and I have to say it was very good sounding with out any adjustments by me.I'm just surprised that what seemed like such relatively small amounts of adj. has made such an important change in the quality of my sound. I'm sure over the next couple of months I can fine tune things even better. I've not even used the (10 band)Parametric EQ function yet but for anyone who has severe room mode issues(and can't use bass traps) this might just be your answer.(Note again: I do use room treatments and bass traps so the EQ has a better foundation to start with than a completely untreated room) I believe if you can do like me and have the option to try one and take it back if your not satisfied and get your money back it would be well worth the experience and you will learn alot about your listening room and sound. After using it for just a short period of time I couldn't imagine not wanting it in my system because it aloud me to relax and hear the music not the system/room.I caught myself really caught up in the music even when I was trying to pay attention to what the EQ was doing I would slip back into the musical performance. I sincerely don't believe any changes in my equipment(amp-preamp-CD/Dac-Cables) could do what this EQ has done for my system. If your on the equipment swapping merry-go-round this little EQ just might allow you to get off and just listen to the music. mike Edit: Another great feature of this EQ is you can put different settings in memory and compare them. web site for all the features: http://www.behringer.com/

Coytee said: All this acquiring sight/sound unseen frankly makes me nervous as it's not McDonalds money after a couple items are added up. Long story short, I'm trying to comprehend if it's the "2a3" tube that is the magic, or the "SET" that is the magic, and/or if McIntosh also has that SAME 3-D magic. ------------------------ I believe the Speakers and Room are the two biggest factors in your final outcome Coytee. Yes it can be a real merry-go-round and $$$$ trying different equipment to get the sound your looking for.Imaging and clarity are very easly compromised by the room. After over 30years of this hobby/obsession IMHO once good quality equipment is aquired you will end up with personel preferances but the room will be the controlling factor in your sound and the imaging you desire. I've had my Khorns in three very different rooms(and each room has had its challenges) and this made more differances than any equipment changes.This assumes good equipment to begin with. I'm trying a Behringer EQ now(already done all the room treatments I can) because I know more equipment changes aren't going to address the problems that my room is causing.Already I can tell an improvement in clarity ,tone and a more in the room feel from the music from using the EQ. Older style EQs never helped me but this modern EQ seems to be a different story. Buying quality equipment is good but if you find yourself swapping it because your still not satisfied then I would suggest trying to deal with the room issues if possible. mike