dlb945

How loud you asked! I have a RadioShack sound level meter. Just for fun, I cranked up the G-22000 until the room was rocking playing Jackson's Thriller LP. The Billie Jean track was being played at about -22db volume (about 45% setting) and at my seat, or sweet spot, the RadioShack meter showed over 100 db C weighted with peaks close to 110 db! The K-horns loved it. I could see the window glass vibrating with the bass beat. I did not notice any distortion at all and I was surprised that the stylus remained in the groove since my turntable is only 18 inches from the left corner of the right Klipschorn. The turntable sits atop 2 slabs of stone (with solid rubber balls halves between slabs) and these sit on a 48" relay rack. The relay rack, speakers and furniture sit on carpet which is glued to a concrete floor. The watt meters of the G-22000 read peak wattage and I never saw it climb above 12 watts. Lots of reserve with this unit. I'm not sure what this means other than the G-22000 appears to be loafing and I'm sure that if I cranked it up to maximum output, I would be replacing drivers in the Khorns. The Sansui G-22000 is a real live high-end unit with a sound stage 'to die for'. My big negative remains ... the darn thing is so big that it looks like an engineering joke.

A friend found a Sansui G-22000 Receiver, an Akai GX-645D along with 4 Sansui floor speakers at a thrift shop and phoned me to ask if $200 was too much for this "Old Junk". I asked him what shape they were in and he said "I'm not sure. They are all in their original boxes. I'll open the Receiver box and let you know." He then said "The Receiver is in two boxes and looks brand new. The Tape Recorder and Speakers are also in original boxes. There are also two boxes of 10 1/2 inch reels of tape along with several sizes of empty reels." I suggested that he buy everything and I will take them off his hands. AND I DID!My friend was nice enough to deliver all the pieces to my house then he left. I had no idea how big the Sansui G-22000 receiver was until I began removing the two parts from their boxes. The preamp and amplifier can either be separate or connected together to make one LARGE RECEIVER. When I say large, it is 25 inches wide, 9 inches high, and 24 inches deep. The receiver when bolted together weighs 95 lbs. Wow ... it really is large.I did not think the G-22000 would sound very good with my Khorns since they are very powerful at 220 watts RMS per channel. I was wrong. After about 3 hours of playing, it began to settle in with one of the best sound fields I have ever heard through the Khorns. With most analog recordings, the image stretches well past the left and right speaker positions and my back wall completely disappears. Instruments and voices lock into position with uncanny realism. Recorded impacts from drums and triangles are very real and seem to be in the room All this with only 3 clicks of the precision volume control.I normally play music through an upgraded Marantz 7T SS Preamp and an upgraded Conrad Johnson MV-75A1 Tube Amplifier but the Sansui Receiver matches my day-to-day setup with warmth but with greater image control. I love the beast for the sound but it sure is BIG. Have any others had a chance to listen to the G-22000 or its bigger brother the G-33000? If so, through what speakers?>>>Dan

Your station should also include one of Lee Tingler's "SolderBuddy" units. These are handy for making your own cables. Take a look: http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/67958

I appreciate the notes from Dean and Al. I did understand that all the "P trap" does "notch out" the frequencies at about 9 Khz but, that's exactly what I wanted and needed. I've been playing these horns since 1980 and never regretted the purchase, just the occasional harshness. I even tried new diaphrams in the squawker without much change. Now the question is ... "Is there a change in sonic character with the P trap in place compared to Al's Universal design without it?" You bet there is and I like it. The Klipshorns belong to me as do the crossovers which allow me to make any changes I want any time I want to do them with or without expletives from others. Take it easy guys ... this is all about having fun. I'm having fun and hope others on this forum are having fun as well. >>>Dan

For what it is worth, I've upgraded my 78 Klipshorns four times with the following observations ... 1. Upgrading only the capacitors in original crossovers ... no great change in character with the exception of a little more upper-mid definition. There was no change during the first 30 or so hours then, the upper-mids opened up. Slightly better imaging but little or no change in depth. 2. Upgraded using the ALK design with low-cost caps and coils ... started out really harsh and remained so during the first 20 hours. Within the harsh presentation, the image improved with much better definition. After 100 or more hours, the harshness remained but the image depth increased. Used the preamp treble control to reduce harshness. 3. Upgraded using the ALK design with recommended high-end caps and coils ... started out with mild harshness and remained so during first 20 hours. During the 20 hours and up to about 100 hours, the image depth increased and the space around instruments became more evident. 4. Discovered the p-trap on this forum and built a pair using high-end caps and coils ... WOW! My mid-driver has the push-down terminals and the p-trap did the trick. What I thought was harshness was no longer there. I am now into about 200 hours on the ALK with associated p-trap and the Klipschorns now make beautiful music regardless of the source. I drive the Klipshorns with a Conrad Johnson MV-75A1 with updated power supply caps and several updated signal caps. The preamp is a Marantz 7T with updated power supply and updated signal caps. This setup is quite dynamic with a 3D image that begins about 5 feet into my 20X22 room and expands back through the wall to a depth dictated by the recording. Vinyl gives a better 3D image than CDs. Conclusion: The 1978 Klipshorns with Atlas push-down terminals may sound a little harsh with an improved crossover. The p-trap talked about in other forums does work and is not too costly to try.

Placing a oriental carpet on the linoleum covered basement floor improved the brightness of my Khorns. Removing the big projection screen color TV between the speakers opened the wall to the neighbors house. Placing some stuffed chairs and stools around the room improved the soundstage even more. Lastly, I have 2' X 2' panels in the suspended ceiling and replacing several panels with acoustic 2' X 2' panels (four actually) made a great difference. >>>Dan

I spotted what appeared to be a nice subwoofer for a low price on the Atlanta Craigslist. I've been wondering what the combo of a subwoofer and Klipschorns might sound like in my listening room. I called the seller, made the deal, and drove to pickup the JBL 125 Watt RMS PSW1200 unit. Although an older unit, it was in excellent cosmetic shape. I downloaded a copy of the User Manual from the JBL website and decided to use the line inputs with cables to the 2nd pair of outputs from the preamp. The equipment rack contains an Adcom GFP-555ii Solid State Preamp, a Conrad Johnson MV75-A1 Tube Amp, a Cambridge D-500SE CD Player, and a Harmon Kardon T65C Turtable with Ortofon MC-3 Moving Coil Cartridge wired to a nice pair of vintage K-horns with DIY ALK crossovers. I set the volume level of the Preamp for a K-horn listening level of 80 db using an old Shure vinyl test LP. Finally, I adjusted the frequency and level settings on the JBL SW using a mix of Rock, Symphony and Opera cuts. My listening room is 21 feet wide and 19 feet deep with the K-horns placed on the 21 foot wall. My head position in the center chair is about 11 feet back from the speaker wall. The Subwoofer was placed 'dead center' between the two K-horns about 12" out from the back wall facing forward. The big surprise was no boom or bass when the recorded mix had little bass but ... when there was bass ... the room filled with a bottom end fullness not previously produced by the K-horns alone. Even more surprising was the sound image which became deeper as well as slightly lower in height overall. Quite an improvement on both LPs and CDs. It was a steal at $110 to try this add-on. Will I keep it and use it with the system from now on you ask? I believe so. Have any other forum members tried a subwoofer with K-horns and if so, what are your thoughts?

One of the joys I have found with my K-horns is mixing tube and solid state units for amp and preamp. Up until a month ago, my favorite setup had been a Conrad Johnson MV75-A1 amplifier and a Marantz 7T preamp. The CJ amp throws a good soundstage along with OK bottom end. It produces the warm glow that tube lovers seek. I'll not bore you with output and driver tube rolling but they all make a difference.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> The only problem with my slightly modified 7T preamp is, the noise and a flattened front-to-back image. The air around instruments/singers is there but the depth of the image is limited to 9 feet or less. Side-to-side image is extremely good. I thought the flat imaging was a given with K-horns. Then, a month ago, I won a bid on eBay for an Adcom GFP-555II preamp for $100. Figured I could try it and if I didn't want to keep it, I could list it again on eBay and get all or most of my money back. I wanted to try the Adcom because it is based on similar circuits to those in the vintage 7T. My surprise with the Adcom GFP-555II came in the form of the quietist preamp ever played on my system. Further, the image depth now extends from about 2 feet in front of the speaker plane to somewhere back through the wall to my neighbor's house. I now can tell how high or low the instruments are in a recording and the hall or studio acoustics are evident. For the $100 price, Adcom GFP-555II is a keeper. I can't say what the Adcom will do with your amp, speakers or room environment but I have swapped out the CJ amplifier and played it with a highly modified Dynaco ST-70 tube amp and a pair of Dynaco Mark III's tube amps with equal satisfaction. I found it does not play well with a Hafler DH-500, a Dynaco ST-80 or Sonic Impact T-amp as there is a little too much high frequency sizzle or brightness with these solid state boxes. All of the solid state amps sound fine with my highly modified Dynaco PAS-3X, although a little to "boomy" with some recordings. If you are using a tube amp, you might take the Adcom preamp for a ride and give it a try.

Yes, you are on the right track. For an example of replacement boards go to the SDS Labs site. On this site you will see several power supply circuit boards for tube based equipment. I have used these on several rebuilds and the results are outstanding. Here is a pointer to the Dynaco Stereo-70 board. I'm sure this information will help answer your questions.

Speaker Wire - I have 15 foot lengths of several types of wire and have concluded that 10 AWG Oxygen Free Copper gives the best results between 20 watts or more per channel tube amplifiers and my 1978 Klipschorn's with ALK xovers. My tube amplifiers include a Dynaco ST-70 with mods, a pair of Dynaco Mark III's with only an upgraded power supply, and a Conrad Johnson MV-75A1. Cycling amps and/or tube rolling, makes a greater sonic difference than speaker wire types. The URL for the wire type is: http://www.jscwire.com/jsc_ss.taf?p=2225 Next best was 12 AWG Oxygen Free Copper from the same manufacturer and 12 AWG orange colored extension cord wire from Home Depot. My Nordost speaker wire sounds fine and equal to the copper if I use solid state amplification. My solid state amps include a Dynaco ST-80 with mods, a Hafler DH-500, Marantz Model 15 with some mods, and a Sonic Impact t-amp. By the way, the Sonic Impact t-amp is the best of my small SS collection with a price of less than $50 !!! http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/t-amp_e.html Interconnect Wire - I have no opinion or favorite.

I don't know if my '78 K's are a vintage year but here is what I found after moving them around the country 7 times from 1985 though 2001. Learn how to repair nicks, scratches and dings yourself. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> The first couple moves, I had the moving company bring in a "wood repair expert" and watched the process. The third move, I was ready to do the work myself and did so. The very last move, I replaced the front strip of veneer below the mid-tweeter box on the left speaker. It was a perfect match to the right when completed. I suggest any Klipschorn year is a vintage year and one only needs to worry about the fit and finish of those being considered. Have a "wood repair expert" on hand to look at and then give an estimate to bring them up to brand-new condition. You may spend an additional $250-$350 but will end up with a pair of great sounding beauties! Dan

Steve Hoffman is a well known recording and remastering engineer. Take a look at this subject in a forum on his web site: http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/archive/index.php/t-41802.html >>>Dan

Why were the Khorns not in the corners you ask? I was experimenting with both imaging and bass loss at the time. I loved the way the end of the room disappeared with the units firing directly at my chair but, there was quite a bit of bass lost at 120 Hz and lower, and the sound was boomy with the bass boosted. The 222C had great tone control circuits!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> I also built and experimented with a pair of home built ALK crossovers constructed in mirror configuration. The imaging improved but the bass loss was still the same. >>>Dan

I restored a Scott 222C for a friend and the result was awesome. I didnt replace all resistors or capacitors, just a few in the signal path including the tone control area and rebuilt the power supply section. I recall my cost of parts at about $75 including a couple of replacement tubes. For those considering, it was a two week project just working a few evenings each week a total of 7 evenings if my memory serves me correctly.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> As you can see from the website pictures, I played it for about 60 hours though my Klipschorns and after about 40 hours, it began to sound quite good. I also tried it though a pair of Dynaco A25 speakers and KLH 17 speakers. Probably the best overall combination included the Dynaco A25s, the Scott 222C, the AR XA turntable shown on another page on the website, and a Shure V15-III cartridge. Talk about antique audio!! As I said before, it was awesome!! My friend actually duplicated the system by bidding and winning the same elements from eBay. He was quite happy. By the way, I do not repair or rebuild equipment for profit and am only providing this information for those who want to duplicate my efforts. It is a hobby that allows me to ****** an old piece of gear, restore it, listen to it, and resell or donate to family or friends interested in older equipment. http://home.bellsouth.net/p/s/community.dll?ep=87&subpageid=134016&ck= I dont have experience with the Eico HF-81 although I did build a pair of HF-60 mono-blocks in my youth along with an Eico HF-85 preamp and played them through a pair of Karlson enclosures with University Triax speakers, a Garrard turntable and GE magnetic cartridge the latter two model numbers escape my memory. The sound was quite good for its day. I wish I still owned the Eico equipment!! >>>Dan

I have a door on the right sidewall corner where the right Klipschorn sits. It is one of two doors leading out from my daylight basement so when we moved into the house about 7 years ago, I thought about eliminating the door. I decided to try it for a while without going through the work of removing the door and building up the sidewall inside and out. I continue to listen with the door intact and have been quite happy. The door stays. A few years ago, I plugged an HP Audio Signal Generator into my preamp, placed a RadioShack digital audio meter on the back of my chair, and took comparison measurements between the left and right Klipschorns at 300, 200, 100, 60, 40 and 20 HZ. The right Klipschorn measured the same although it differed 1db lower at 60 and 40 HZ. Although I could feel the 20 HZ signal from each of the two Klipschorns by placing my hand on the enclosures, I could not hear the tone nor did my meter read the signal. This was not very scientific and was only done to convince me to leave things unchanged. Conclusion: the door makes a difference but not enough to merit the work to remove the door or to build a false corner. >>>Dan

Yes to the SS Model 7T Preamp (with updated capacitors). Yes to the SS Model 15 Amplifier (with updated capacitors). Bought them both on an impulse to compare to the 7C Preamp and 8B amplifier. I prefer the 7T to the 7C. Dead even between the 8B and Model 15 with the latter having tighter bass but slightly diminished sound stage depth. More 'air' around the floating 3D images with SS pair. I was only going to listen to the paired SS for a long weekend but have decided to cycle though every recording I own on CD/Vinyl and it may take a while. Hard to explain but the 7T plus Model 15 and Klipschorns with ALK xovers appear to be a matched trio. When playing a 'recorded live concert' the end of the room disappears, instruments and voices lock in space, and one is there. Perhaps it was the dust cooking when I first powered up this pair of eBay purchases. It smells like music. Here it is, 12:48 AM in Atlanta, and I can't shut this system down. I'm confused. >>>Dan

I love my Marantz 7T but, it took a while to love. I won the unit on an eBay bid and the seller said "It runs well." It did run well but it had a hard edge to the highs and after about an hour of listening, I found myself shutting the system down and switching to the television. Hmmmm! I joined a Yahoo Marantz forum and asked what folks thought about the 7T. Most responses were negative except for one from Sweden. This person was once part of a team doing repairs for early Marantz units in Europe and he was quite high on the Marantz 7T Preamplifier and Model 15 Amplifier. He had several suggestions for updates on both units and I started with the 7T replacing 5 each 15 ufd electrolytic capacitors in the signal path on two of the "air boards" in the system. I used very good film/foil replacements. The project took about two evenings. What a difference the changes made!!! The preamp was not only listenable but became my favorite. In side-by-side comparistons with the tube based Marantz 7C, I like the 7T more and although the sound stage is slightly less deep, the detail around singers and instruments are far superior. I have tried a few other updates including the power supply, some selected resistors in the signal path, and some low-noise transistors but these changes made little improvement to the sound. I own and cycle a few other preamps into the system but always go back to the 7T. My next best Marantz surprise was a beat up Model 15 amplifier also won on an eBay. With a few minor updates, it is making great music and the best amplifier for rock. I still prefer tube amplifiers for classical/opera at this time. >>>Dan

I rebuilt a pair of ST-70's for a friend using 100% original design but with closely matched capacitors/resistors for left/right channels as well as a beefed up power section. As a test, I strapped the outputs as described above and wired to my K-Horn's with ALK crossovers. The preamp was my favorite Marantz 7T (solid-state) with updated and matched capacitors/resistors and upgraded power section as well. The 3-D image was to "die for" and was a total surprise. The extra wattage provided by strapping gave a range of dynamics close to a 250 watt/channel solid-state amplifier (my Hafler DH-500) but with that slightly warmer sound that a tube amplifier can give. I was reluctant to return the ST-70's to my friend and kept them for about 3 months. As a point of interest, I am now rebuilding the first of two ST-70's for me so that I can duplicate the first experience. I'm sure that the ST-70 is not a world class amplifier by today's standards but ... I'll bet it will get you close and for 2% of the price, you can get to 95% of the sound. A bargain by any measure. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-dlblabs

Thanks for posting the picture. What a kick! I was never fortunate enough to have visited the back side of the movie screens either in the past or recently.

Mass will tell! Go to Home Depot or Lowes and purchase two each outdoor sidewalk squares which measure 18" X 18" X 2" along with eight each soft rubber door stoppers and a can of semi-gloss black spray paint. Give the squares a couple coats of black paint outdoors and let them dry for a day. Now for the hard part ... Place the first four stoppers, round-side down, under the first sidewalk square and your component table or shelf. Now place the next four stoppers, round side up, under the second sidewalk square and place on top of the first square. Place your turntable on top of the stack. This low-cost tweek will cost about $16.00 and will eliminate feedback as well as create a low frequency mass that will not ring. Now convince your wife and friends that this is a $300 special platform. It has its own form and beauty but ... it does work well.

Another example of K-horns in a door area is shown in the attached photo. I have relocated these speakers 6 times since they were purchased used in 1980. There was never a problem with any room or corners. I was worried that the door shown in the present setting would present a problem but it does not. No rattles and no difference in low frequencies compared to the left K-horn. As you can see from the picture, I keep the video/audio system separate from the 2 channel system. For serious listening, a light blanket covers the face of the big TV and it contributes to a deeper soundstage. >>>Dan

You may want to find an out of print copy of Tu-be or not tu-be by H.L. Eisenson. It was first published in 1976 and I own a 1977 copy with correction sheet. One of the chapters has extensive updates for the PAS2-3 series of preamps. Included are values of new resistors, capacitors and recommendations on which to replace/update. My small collection includes two PAS-3X units, one of which is updated using the recommendations and the second PAS-3X a mint unaltered example. I purchased all my parts from Mouser and Allied with the total cost of about $150. I dont know how many hours were spent since I did it in steps, listening to each change. I can state that there is a considerable difference between the two examples with the updated unit giving a nice tight presentation. One might ask if the pleasant change results from just replacing aged parts. If you own a PAS, give it a try. >>>Dan PASEXAMPLE.pdf

Yes, I heard that the xformer Uncle Ned sells is vibration free and runs much cooler. You did the right thing. >>>Dan

Suggestion that works ===================== A power supply upgrade/update that includes removal of the power tranformer should include transformer to chassis isolation. Go to Home Depot or Lowes and purchse some rubber faucet washers (FW) and some plated metal washers (MW), and slide them onto transformer bolts. The sequence is BOTTOM OF TRANSFORMER/MW/FW/MW/Chassis/MW/FW/MW/NUT. You will help eliminate the 60hz vibration and improve the noise level of that ST70. Not a bad thing to do on any amplifier.

Ditto on the KT90's Carl ... I love them with Gin. Genalex KT88 Gold Lions (came with Mark III's) sound better but I keep them boxed to sell for future equipment. They may be worth more than the value of the Mark III's!! >>>Dan