steamer

Mike said: Anyways, to make this discussion profitable we're going to have to get down to specific examples. All I'm saying is that an equally performing stereo system is going to outperform an equally performing stereo/partial mono system. I'm all for using subwoofers and find that they work better when implemented in stereo pairs - ala Klipsch THX Ultra2 Mike, I am saying that it can be done correctly with good results with a quality bookshelf.The benifit of a smaller 2way is its imageing ability.and bass augmentation really allows them to sing.It doesnt always have to be about surface area.In the right room it could be a great sounding system that has good stereo image capability.As you said specific situations.I must have misread another post but I thought you didnt care for stereo subs. also you said: If you are that concerned about signal purity, then I would have to ask why one is listening to source material that was recorded poorly and is then concerned about maintaining that crap in the signal I try not to listen to poor source material,in fact most of it is pretty darn good,even alot of older material.My point is why degrade a good signal with an EQ and another set of interconnects? Greg

Mike, I am confused here LOL.For starters I dont think I am a nut [] and my stereo image is just fine in fact better recently [].If a sub is crossed over properly with the mains and the correct level is set then how is it worse like you have stated?Many people use subs on this forum and I have never heard a complaint about imaging.Yes it takes time to find the correct position for the sub but not that hard to get good sound.If you free up some of the bass duties of the sat.then it should be less disorted due to less power required for the amp driving it as well as less cone excursion ie no low freq seen by the low driver. As far as tone controls and EQ's that is just another step the signal has to go thru and imho is a step backwards to getting closer to the sound. Greg

Women are the world's greatest works of art. Everything else is sheer imitation........ [] I stand corrected,too bad they dont see it our way! Greg

probably true...I think I have concluded women are great works of art,too bad they dont see it that way. Greg

the master wrote: One most go in the opposite direction of the common wisdom and there you will find peace and good sound. I found mine with the Scala bass bins/Altec 511B's w/902 drivers and the incredible dedicated BagEnd sub system.Signals divided before the amps...a bit unconventional for most but it does get the job done! Greg

same here Greg

Charles, You asked about 1st,2nd,3rd,4th order.I have the Rane active 2way with a fourth order LR.The benifits are a steep slope of 24db and in phase reponse.Running the 902 at 400hz the insurance of the steeper slope with higher power is nice.I only run 2-4 tube watts to it with good results.I have the ability to adjust the x-over point on the fly and have run it at 500hz(the rated cutoff for the 902).Not much difference in sound but once again the higher x-over point would be nice if you want to pump some power to it. I was currious why you chose the 16 ohm version vs. 8? Greg

chops wrote the following post at 05-30-2006 1:54 PM: I will soon be buying a pair of GPA (Altec) 902-16A drivers to replace the stock K-55V drivers I'm using right now on my 511B horns. If I really wanted to, I could probably run them on the current CS II networks, crossing them over from 400Hz to 4500Hz @ -6dB per octave. I'm not sure what the difference in effeciency is between the K-55V and 902, so I might have to figure out some kind of attenuation for the 902s to sound right. However, I have been told by quite a few people to let these 902s run all the way out to 20kHz and try running my CWs as 2-ways. This is perfectly fine with me, but I'd like to try and build the networks myself from scratch. I imagine it should be simple enough. The only question then would be, what crossover point and 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc, etc order? Hi Charles, Most of the info you need is way over my head but since I was one of the people raving about runnin' those 902's from 400-20Khz here is my input.The 902's efficiency paired with the 511B's is 106db. Hope it works for you! Greg

I have delt with Jim McShane with good results: http://pages.prodigy.net/jimmcshane/tubes.htm also check out this Jim: http://www.vacuumtubesinc.com/ Greg

No problem,glad to help. Greg BTW welcome to the forum.

Mike, I am very happy with the Bryston,like you said 250 is not always enough.It does well for 98% of my listening,but last night I just had to turn it up a little.Like what can my system do with the new Nickelback CD.With the BagEnds it was impressive but clipping indicators were flashing yellow(not RED...red bad!)The integrator was also starting to limit the output to protect the woofers.So I decided to look for some power.As you know the BagEnd system likes power...lotts of it.The guy I got this system from wanted to sell me two 4B's for $400 ea.I only bought one with the system.Its gone now. I will probably just get another 4B pro on ebay and bridge them for mono ops w/750 per.The quality of this bass is very good,seems to match well with the bass sig.of the Scala bins(sealed encloser).As you know it takes much more power to reproduce a 20hz signal at the same levels as say a 80hz signal.So 250 is not quite enough at the levels I was at last night.Also I have moved the BagEnds out of the corners and have a stacked configuration with the Scala bins between them and the Altec 511b's.Lost some output and extension but the bass is cleaner. Greg

By how you've figured out the amp is a piece of dog crap. Please don't feel self-conscious, after all, the seller has 35,000 sales and the window opens up with 3 Crown amps with Buy It Now. I don't think anyone was trying to sell it as a Crown amp. The actual thread was: Listed in category: Musical Instruments > Pro Audio > Power Amplifiers > Other Brands So I don't think they were trying to fool anyone. LOL [] Bill, I didnt think they were trying to fool me lol,just checking out Crowns and got LOST!!!! After Michael pointed out the FACTS I realized my error,not the first and probably not the last. Greg

Thanks Michael, LOL,I have no idea,it was listed in the Crown section on ebay...so I thought. Greg

I currently use a Bryston 4B pro for my 2 BagEnd 18's at 250 watts per side.I noticed this auction on ebay and have tried to get more info on this Crown Blue Ice amp.I searched the Crown site with no luck,anyone familiar with it?How does it compare to other Crown amps? Thanks, Greg http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7418115499&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

this might be what your looking for. Greg DOPE from HOPE!!!.pdf

The Ear said:Congratulations on your gershman Acoustics purchase,great speakers to say the least.First to get this out of the way(the amp that is)you should try the SimAudio MOON W3 or W5,clearly superior to any Adcom and in my view better than the Bryston 4B(a great amp). I like and use Bryston amps for my subs.They are great bang for the buck! Greg

LOL,my 50 in. Samsung DLP retailed for $4500.The same now is @$2300.That is $500 less than what I paid 2.5 years ago. Greg Sounds like you got a good deal . When I purchased my Sammy it had just been reduced to $3,299.00 . Of course that is before tax and extended warranty . Still on my first bulb though . [] Yes,I got lucky.My Sammy was returned to Ulimate Audio after one week due to some guys WAF,lol.They couldnt sell it as new and I was in the right spot at the right time.Incredible picture especially with ESPN HD. Greg

LOL,my 50 in. Samsung DLP retailed for $4500.The same now is @$2300.That is $500 less than what I paid 2.5 years ago. Greg Sounds like you got a good deal . When I purchased my Sammy it had just been reduced to $3,299.00 . Of course that is before tax and extended warranty . Still on my first bulb though . [] I'm on my second mainly because I also use it for a monitor hooked up to my computer.I estimated the hrs on that first bulb at around 8000.I also have a bad habit of falling asleep with it on. Greg

LOL,my 50 in. Samsung DLP retailed for $4500.The same now is @$2300.That is $500 less than what I paid 2.5 years ago. Greg

a toss up between my Mark Levinson #39 CDP or the Wavelength Gemini 45/2a3 monoblocks,each around $2500 used. Greg

Well here is my configuration: I run LaScala bass bins and Altec 511b's with the 902 drivers. My signals are divided with a Rane Mojo 2way active at 400hz. The Altec's are powered by a pair of Wavelength Gemini 45/2a3 monoblocks(2 to 4 watts depending on tube) The bass bins are powered by a Bryston 3B pro SS amp(130 watts per) Also I run a dedicated BagEnd sub system powered by another Bryston 4B pro amp(250 watts per)It has an integrator/x-over that recieves the signals below 400hz from the Rane and further divides it at 70hz before those signals go to the SS amps. My Brystons have input level control and are trimmed back otherwise when you get on the volume the bass tends to overpower the rest.Also I find I have an envelope of volume where if I want to really turn things up I have to adjust the bass level down on the Rane 1 to 2 db or if you play a bass heavy disc you can trim the Ranes bass level.Very convienient and easy to do with one knob.I find I dont have to do this often but like the ability to do so. I have listened to LaScala's for 20 years with 2channel SS gear and the last couple with PP tube monoblocks.6 months ago I went to active biamping and cant shut it off(my tube bill this year is gonna hurt lol)Every aspect of the sound is better.95% of the music put in stays in for almost every song.I listen at lower volumes now as well.Before I was always turning it up and skipping to the next song.I am amazed everyday by this system.I used to have a 50 in bigscreen and makeshift home theater setup in between the Scala's but have chosen to move it upstairs and make this room a dedicated 2 channel setup.Hell I never watch TV anymore.I have 2500 plus CD's and am rediscovering my collection. I have a friend on another forum that has just put together a similar rig running 2way with tubes for the highs and SS for lows.His impressions are the same as mine in that he cant believe the difference and will never go back. I will say that I made alot of changes 6 months ago and this is not an example of just getting another amp and an active x-over.I spent a year getting all the various components together and completely transformed the system. My recommendation is that if you can try biamping with an active x-over before the amps do it to hear it for yourself.You can always go back if you dont like it.I cant imagine anyone going back if they have set it up correctly and hear the benifits.But we all have our preferences for sound.Remember its important to have level controls(at least for the higher powered amp).I could have gotten by with less power for my SS amps...but then I could control input level.The post by dkj seems like a good guideline for power requirements or ratios between highs and lows. I'll never go back! Greg

I would be interested in the adaptors if the buyer doesnt want them! Greg

Hello, As mentioned this issue has some legs in other threads. That said,I have no expierience with the speakers in question but do run a biamp rig with an active and tube amps for the highs/SS for the lows.I can say it is a revelation.Done right it walks all over passives imho.Now some will take issue with that statement but untill you have heard it for yourself you will never know. As far as Rane components I use the Mojo 2way I got from ebay fairly cheap($75)just to get my system up and running.Some say they dont make them like they used to but it sounds very good to me.I am sure there is better out there and I want to get into a tube crossover from Marchand.The Rane x-over is good bang for the buck but if you want to spend the jack then Marchand is the way to go.But if you just want to get your feet wet then get a Rane unit.If your not in a hurry mine would be for sale soon as I have the upgrade bug. One thing to remember when actively biamping is the importance of level control for each amp.You will get level control with the Rane but if your SS amp has alot more power than the tube unit it is nice to have input level control for the SS(more power)amp. Greg

Dude,how did you do that?LOL,if I paint them purple you will buy them? Greg BTW,they are still for SALE!

Chops said: In short, these 511s are here to stay! Now all I need to do is scrounge up the money for a set of new 902 drivers to replace the K-55s. When you get those 902's try running them in a 2way setup,you might be surprised at the sound quality.Crossed over at 400hz and run all the way up to 20k like Altec did with the VOTT speakers is impressive. I knew you would like these horns,they do have a sweet sound to them. Greg