nola

Thx for the effective mass of the ?tonearm at 12 grams I think all the cartridges I listed should be ok on a Technics 1200 series or similar S shaped tonearm. I have no idea about the capacitance of the internal wiring and any external RCA cables (2 sets, into and from the phono preamp). There appear to be a few web postings that adjustments at the level of the phono preamp can also alter and perhaps improve the overall sound of the system. These postings suggest that we should let our ears decide what sounds good to us, even if the values run different to manufacturer suggestions. Many postings urging very careful alignments etc as part of set up as well. Suffice it to say that these calculations are useful where and the input data is available. But if your possible set up is outside the acceptable range (?9-11?), does additional weighting of the headshell or rear tonearm weight dial allow for suitable adjustments? I have also taken a look at info regarding the AT OC9 ii and iii. These are Low Output MCs that should work with my Tube Box DS pre amp. Several postings that they sounded better than the AT 150MLX MM. Both of the OC9's are at or below $500 which is definitely a hard limit for me. It also limits me because I might need a second pre amp for the MC cartridge (1 for the DC area and 1 for New Orleans, assuming I carry the MC and headshell between locations). I have a low end MM usable preamp in NOLA, but it will not work with a MC. As for the Grado G2, I could not find much info on it. I assume it is at least 30 years old. Perhaps it might also need a stylus replacement, if they are still stocked. I could not find a review of it, but web postings suggest it was well thought of in the past. So yes, I might be interested. Thank you. Have a great Saturday night folks

Wow, TWKH, quite an effort !! Unfortunately, though this will likely help others, I do not know what to do with it. But I will try to figure the calculations from the V E website calculator. I also found another place where the impedance of the wiring was part of the calculations needed for my Tube Box DS settings. All in all, this seemed quite complicated. In the end, one reply indicated that it was ok to mess around with the phono amp settings to find a pleasing sound. I have also called tech support for the Pro Ject phono amp and the man on the phone was quite nice.

Is there a functional reason for the shielding? The shield is only present on one of my 2 MC240s. When I A-B'd the 2 amps, I could not discern much if any difference, despite different brands of tubes, etc. Do I need to find / buy one of these tube shields? THX

Thx re the Silver. But I am likely looking for a Bronze over a Blue or a Silver.

Thanks for the fast replies The tonearm database link seems to be for setup, not for compliance, unless I missed something. But thx for the link regardless. I do have an overhang tool. ?52mm? Image Model Eff length O/H O/S Pivot to spindle Cartridge weight Arm mass VTA MP HS Null Points rate/review Technics SL-1210 mk2 230 15 22 215 - - - - - 58.8 / 113.5 I have very little knowledge via the net regarding a Denon 103r and no personal experience. There seemed to be more info re the Ortofons and ATs and the pricing seemed to be within my ballpark. Are these the Zu Audio retips or originals? I think the higher quality Zu Audio ones were tough to find and quite pricey. If I wrong, please feel free to educate or correct me. THX

I have 2 x MC240s. Obtained from different folks and they came with different brands of tubes installed. One was from the audio engineer of a TV station in MSP. They sound quite similar. Delightful with my K horns. Originally bought 2 of them for a bi amp project that I never completed. My Q to the group is why the metal caps on the tubes closest to us in the pic? On my MC240s, only one of them has a metal capped or ?shielded tube. Thx for any info.

I think I remember Amy from at least 10 yrs ago. Best wishes.

Looking TO BUY A Cartridge for a Technics SL 1210. I also have a Technics 1800 TT, which seems to be a less fancy version of the 1200 series. If possible I would like to mount the cartridge on a headshell and simply detach and reattach the headshell/cartridge when changing turntables. Hopefully all of the alignments will be ok between TTs. I also have an Ortofon Blue on a Project TT. However, there is no headshell, and it cannot be moved without complete removal of cartridge. I am happy with the sound. Currently all 3 TTs are in my small studio apt in the DC area. I would like to bring 1 TT back to NOLA by Mardi Gras. The Technics TTs came with many lower end cartridges, and the 2 TTs sound very similar. I use a Project Tube Box DS phono preamp. If someone has an appropriate cartridge (s) for sale, I am all ears. I am trying not to spend over $400 on this. I recently missed out on a 150MLX NOS for under $300. Over the summer there were some very helpful responses to my Qs about which one to buy. Thank you to the Forum members. Many, many choices out there. But I am thinking not to get a Shure nor a Denon 103 nor 110. Over 90% of my vinyl is used and I fear that an Ortofon Black or similar ?fine line stylus might lead to way too many pops and cracks on my lesser quality records. So what I "think" I am looking for might include the following: 2M Blue or maybe better, a Bronze, Super OM 30 (which I think should sound similar to the Bronze, but at a lower price), AT 150 series (AT 150MLX or 150Sa), or AT 440 MLa, MlLb or new VM 540, etc....... Thanks for considering my inquiry From NOLA with love......

Just to add my 2 cents: After Hurricane Katrina I was really worried about my speakers: 2 KHorns, 2 LSs, 2H1s, and an Academy. I thought the sound of some of the speakers was "off" or not what it should be. So began my journey 12 years ago....LOL. I recapped all of the Spam can caps with products via Bob Crites and ALK universals, 1 pair, via Al Klappenberger. I also bought Altec Lansing radial horns and wooden squawkers (which ever ones, 1 or 2 inch) use Klipsch type drivers, not the fancier (and perhaps better) drivers of the other throat size. My babies sound much better now. Another Khorn owner on the West Bank of New Orleans has the best sounding ones I have ever heard. I think room effects and very fancy steep slope ALK Xovers made the difference. If the wood in the cabinets is intact, not warped in any way, well sealed (extra gaskets and "interior wool" likely not needed), and if the rubbery gasketing and paper cones are in good shape, you should be good to go. Remember, we are all here to help each other.

Newbie Type Qs RE Cornscalas and LaScalas This was prompted by a PM from another forum member, regarding SEOS CSs. In brief, if you already have a LS or CS (or other similar Altec, etc) why bother to change anything (besides horns, drivers, etc, like many of us do) if you have a sub? I am excluding the desire to tinker, which you have by definition if you are on the Forums - and that is likely why most of you are reading this post. If you are getting your first larger speakers, that is a different issue. Best to audition some first, realizing that most folks out there likely have no means to do this in the real world, especially in an A-B fashion. I have LaScalas and Heresys in a 550 sq ft place in the DC area, the rest of my stuff is still in NOLA. My single Fender 18” driver ported pro sub is roughly the size of a LaScala. Nice thick walls up North...LOL. I took a look at some SEOS CS webpages including diysoundgroup dot com where the SEOS waveguides or horns are listed and also looked at their LS or CS equiv, the Titan 615/615LX - under $600 each shipped !! Incredibly flat response from 100->15000 Hz; too good to be true? Several different curves below 100 Hz found in diff places. Let’s assume they roll off at 60 Hz. I assume bass bin size relates, perhaps not directly, to low end extension, eg 18” cubed maybe to 100 Hz, 25 x 25 x 12 (Titan) to around 60 Hz, 25” cubed (LS or CS) to around a 35-50 Hz roll off). The Titan bass bin size is maybe 40% of a LS bass bin size. So maybe if they had used a bigger (ported) bass bin maybe they could have gotten lower bass extension like the CS or LS. Perhaps that would also have required a different bass driver, xover, etc. But as stated below, add a sub, and you are done. And yes, I realize that this does not take into consideration tonality of the speakers, their “size” presence either in the room (almost “triangle” yard for K-horn) or whether you seem to be listening to a 10 piece band (K-horn) vs 2 high school kids (bad tower speakers), etc. One major Q: If you have sub that matches your speakers, whatever that means, what difference does it make to have lower bass extension from the mains? (No flame wars please, just looking for information.) Mind you I have big speakers per the above comment, but not directly for the bass extension. I resisted the “dark side” for decades as I thought the bass from the LSs and K horns was enough. I was very wrong. I am a bass a holic with many 15 and 18” subs, but no furnature/couch bass shakers (LOL). The CS adds about 10 HZ lower extension from the lower limit of the LS at the price of going from about 104 to 100 db/watt according to Crites' CS a-d webpage. Likely not a big deal to most of us with at least ?20+ watt tube amps. No doubt that is of some importance to some folks. However, if you have sub(s), does it really matter as you can program a receiver to output anything, say below 60 HZ to the sub(s)? If your audio receiver cannot do that, a dedicated sub amp can do that in almost all cases. (Though mains will run full spectrum, see below) Exception: I have thought of directly coupling the output of a turntable preamp to a stereo only amp and then directly into R and L speakers. But even here you could Y split the TT preamp output to add the sub amp as well. All you would lose is the ability to filter out the lower bass extension for the mains. It is only a guess, but I don't think the overlap, say below 40-80 HZ would be too noticeable to most of us (based upon whatever you use as the sub amp bass cutoff point). Outside of using maybe a Radio Shack Potentiometer, no idea how to control the volume inexpensively and ?cleanly. It makes the signal path as clean as possible (I think) - assuming that makes much of an audible difference to anyone. No remotes, so no couch potatoes. Just my 2 cents. Comments welcome. NOLA

RE: Optimal Cartridge for a Technics SL 1210: 2M Blue or Bronze, Super OM 30, Denon DL-110, AT 150 series (AT 150MLX or 150Sa), or AT 440 MLa, MlLb or new VM 540? First, thanks for the replies so far !! One Q not on the forum was why I have what I have. The ProJect TT was damaged and had a good price. I bought this first after my original Technics was no more. Sounds nice now after partial repairs and with the 2M Blue, but all things considered I likely should have bought new or undamaged as I will never get much $$ back if I sell it. As for the Technics x 3, I was not able to find any nearby at a reasonable price initially, they are all from SoCal. Yes there are likely better TTs out there for hifi use, given the price. But, easy to resell if I want to and recover at least most of what I paid. Many net postings note the tonearm as a weak point, as is true for one that I bought. However, simply stated I know the 1200 Series and its cousins (like the 1800). The 1800 was bought almost as an afterthought for low $ and after the POTs were cleaned sounds nice. However, very fine speed adjustments are easier on the 1200s/1210s. The second 1210 was simply available at a reasonable price, came with lots of used cartridges and a cover, which got beat up in shipping L. No doubt there are many needles that can sound good to great on various TTs, TT arms, TT preamps, etc. The total rig, stereo receiver, amp, speakers, room, etc all can make a huge difference. Nice to know so many cartridges can work nicely on a 1200 series TT. I also checked out vinylengine, audiokarma, etc for info via web searches for various cartridges and Technics 1200 etc as key words. To address each reply to date: Dirtmudd: THX for the links. The various Shure cartridges do have a nice advantage of various JICO SAS styli to use. DizRotus: “Mr DeMille, I am ready for my (facelift)”…LOL Thx for the info, but the process to make the peel seems a bit too involved. I also do not know where to get all the ingredients easily. I would think about buying a facial peel to try on some old vinyl if there was a means to buy it (hint). I think I found several links explaining the process. Some were a bit too detailed, even for me. My existing home brew cleaner is isopropyl alcohol 91% from CVS, distilled water or equivalent from WalMart and a drop or 2 of Dawn dishwashing liquid. I cannot recall the proportion of IPA and H20. I only made about 3-4 ounces and only cleaned a few records, rinsing with dist H20 and using microfiber cloths. I know it is not perfect. I also do not know if Dawn has appropriate surfactant. But lots of yuck was removed. Justinsweber: I found someone with a lightly used Bronze at a good price and we are starting an email dance now. I am happy with the Blue on the ProJect. For Denon, as best as I can sort out, the DL-110 might have some better reviews, although either seems like good match for the 1200 series tonearms. My concern is that if I have to replace a 1210 tonearm (maybe via kabusa.com or other), the Denon might not match (which I assume could be true for any of these needles to be honest). Although you can find any review you want of most anything on the web, there seemed to be more positive AT reviews. Thanks jimx2bo Thx Guy Landau (any relation to Martin…LOL) Hasty thx for info. I have bought caps from Bob Crites (or his son) in the past. FWIW, ALK has a $99.00 rebuild of the AA xover noted via a peculiarly obscure link on his website. (Please no flame wars). I have also bought from Al in the past. DizRotus: When I read 5-10 year old web postings I am shocked by the price increases for several cartridges. Also noted is that the styli can cost 75% or more of the entire cartridge. As a general point of info, it seems that the finer (?thinner / more oval) styli cost more (JICO SAS all appear to be over $100, many at $160-),some like the 2M Black are just too expensive for my rig. They also seems to hug the inner grooves better and be quite faithful to the groove itself. The latter can lead to many pops, hisses, etc on unloved vinyl. In brief, seems like great new vinyl will do well with such needles. But for my collection, maybe something less in a needle, which will not be as faithful to the ?deep groove will provide a more pleasant listening experience. So at this point, heavily influenced by current prices, these are my thoughts: 1. A potentially lightly / minimally used Bronze for about $300.00, This of course assumes that the bronze is better than the OM-30. I am not certain this is true. There were some postings indicating that the 2Ms could be a better match for the 1200 series tone arms vs the OM / Super OMs. 2. Super OM-30 for $290. Add the D25M mono stylus for about $50.00 - hoping that the mono stylus works ok on this body. If the 30 is similar to the bronze, I might go this route, simply on the basis of saving $50- for not needing the mono cartridge, just the mono stylus. 3. AT150Sa for $270. Overall, I seem to have found the most positive reviews for the 150MLX and the 150Sa has some good reviews. An MLX is at least $400. So maybe the Sa is close enough, given the cost. Without the mono needle consideration per the above, I would likely have this as my first choice. More liked this over the bronze or 30, however none were highly critical of the Ortofons in comparison. 4. The Shures, except for one model that is no longer made are certainly less expensive. But I the reviews I read from various web postings from real users often do not place it ahead of the above listed needles. Gladly listening back for more input J From NOLA with love.

Optimal Cartridge for a Technics SL 1210: 2M Blue or Bronze, Super OM 30, Denon DL-110, AT 150 series (AT 150MLX or 150Sa), or AT 440 MLa, MlLb or new VM 540? Hi Folks: Not sure where to post this. Let me know if it belongs elsewhere. Most of the info below is tell you folks about me and my gear. You can skip it if you like, as it is a bit detailed. My Technics SL1200 ?M3D is no more. Also gone is the Nigthclub S Cartridge and extra stylus. I still have the Music MMF-5 with a Goldring cartridge (?1024?), from about 10 years ago. It is my bedroom rig in New Orleans, I was never very happy with this, but completely different set up from what is noted below, except for the Onkyo. I work up in the DC area now and I have Klipsch LaScalas for my front speakers, Heresy Is for center and rear and a Fender 18” pro audio ported subwoofer (for which there is virtually no info on the web, nor from Fender). The LaScalas are “bright”, even for LaScalas. Therefore, I really do not need an over “bright” TT cartridge. I have a Pro-Ject - Debut Carbon Esprit SB (DC), 2M Red. It was bought knowing it had some damage and I got a 2M Blue stylus to put on the straight TT arm to replace the mangled Red stylus. It sounds very nice, but I have never had another needle on it. I do not intend to replace it. Also have a Pro-Ject Audio - Tube Box DS – Black phono pre amp. I have never compared this to anything else either. Seems to work fine. I only have a small studio apt now so I use the Tube Box for any / all TTs. Thank goodness for thick walls in an older building !! I use an Onkyo TX SR 805. Also about 10 years old. It is an all in one receiver, but with a very good amp for such a unit. I have acquired 3 additional TTs: Technics SL-1800 (repaired), 1210 MK5 and 1210 M5G (one of the 1210s also got minor repairs locally, the other has a gimpy ?gimble point on the tone arm, but it works fine – for now). (Long story on getting them.) Not sure I want to do the KAB fluid dampers on these now, nor any other modding now. Might consider mods after I get a good needle. They came with various used cartridges including an AT 92E, Stanton Groovemasters, etc. I have no way to know how “used” any of the cartridges and styli are. That said, none sound bad. I would like to have 1 good needle that I can easily interchange between these 3 TTs. Therefore, some sort of plug and play set up would be ideal, whether via a compatible cartridge mounted onto a head shell or a DJ needle, Best reccs for a DJ needle seem to be for the Ortofon Arkiv, but I doubt that it would be as good as any in the post title for regular hifi listening. I mostly listen to Jazz, Blues, 60s/70s rock, Disco, etc. I should also state that many of the dozen or so records I have up in DC now have seen better days and all were bought used. I have cleaned some of them, and yes there was gunk on them. The gunk and scratches were one reason to leave out the Super OM-40, as some web postings said that all the scratches etc are easily noted with the 40. Combined with the horn loaded speakers, I think the sound of nice new vinyl might be great, but most all of my 150+ records in NOLA are from the cheap used bin. I have listened to most of them before buying to make sure that that the records were at least in ok shape. 2M Blue- sounds fine on the Pro Ject and some say it is ok with the SL1200s. $210/165 (cartr/stylus, LP Gear or TTNeedles). It is mounted onto the Pro Ject arm and I am not going to mess with it. However, I would consider a second Blue on a headshell for the Technics TTs. Some really like the Bronze, but I do not know if either Blue or Bronze is a good match for my 3 Technics TTs when compared to the OM 30 or others listed here. $370/290. Super OM 30 gets good comments on the web. However, more postings seem to favor the ATs or Denon. $290/220, so more than Blue, but less expensive than a Bronze. TTN Jico Shibata stylus for OM 10, 20, 30, 40: $160 Super OM 40 might be better for those with high quality records, as I guess you hear every pop and such in the vinyl. Some folks on the web preferred the 30. $385/300. Denon DL-110 is said to be well mated to the 1200 series. However, there is no separate stylus for this cartridge, and setting the mount properly might be difficult. It might also be too bright for my LaScalas and Heresy’s. $200-300 AT 150 series (AT 150MLX or 150Sa) is said to be a real step up from the 440s – but so is the price. I am not really sure how much difference there is from the Sa to the MLX. $270-450/335. Perhaps the bargain, if I could score a Sa for $270 and if the Sa is similar to the MLX. AT has just released the VM740ML, VM750SH and VM760SLC to replace the 150s, but I know very little about them. AT 440 MLa, MlLb or new VM 540 get good reviews. MLb is $199/179 I have a few Mono records, not sure the $90.00 OM D25M is worth it for me. One potential advantage to the OM 30 is if I could get a stylus for the D25M that would work mounted onto the OM30 cartridge. Also note that some plug and play or otherwise premounted to headshell sets are available from some of the web retailers. There were also some comments about how difficult some of these are to set up. Any advice appreciated. From NOLA with love.

They left FL Easter weekend.

Please forgive this ultimate noob Q: what do the specs on the referenced pdf sheets mean? How does this tap method compare to maybe using an equalizer to soften the treble, or even putting a cloth sheet in front of a tweeter, etc? Thx,,,,,It's Midnight and I am tired too.

Thank you cincymat: the journey and who you meet are sometimes as much fun as the "conquest" of your new babies. In my experience, I have met several owners that simply wanted this stuff out of the house, unfortunately after a death or home remodel. When I bought my Khorns about 30 years, I almost begged the dentist selling them to change his home redo plans to keep these. My Belle was bought after someone passed away. But I had some great Bar B Q that trip My black LS Is were from a church supply guy I met at an office products store. ETC. But my greatest concern is that folks under 35 yo do not seem to be that interested in physically larger speakers like Khorns or LS's. Bad for them, good for us I guess. On my way up from FL I stopped near the Sub Base in S GA. They had replicas of the Pinta and Nina there. My goodness, talk about tiny ships. It took some real ...... to cross the Atlantic in something the size of a tall shrimp boat. St Mary's is a lovely place to stop for an hour, but limited for time. No base tours given the current state of affairs. Would never have been there if not for this road trip. I would enjoy returning.

Thanks for the heads up. I AM NOT THE SELLER. I DID NOT PLACE AN EBAY AD. SCAMMER I think. Yes, these are photos of my speakers. They are the 3 pics from my CL ad in So FL from a week or so ago. I tried pulling the CL ad, but without success. CL can be a pain sometimes. I had them listed at $900.00, which is what I think I paid from them in 2013. 1994 LS 1s. Ended up not selling them in So FL. Again: No, I never made an Ebay listing. Needless to say, sounds like this zero feedback seller is a scammer under the circumstances. I have them N of the Mason Dixon Line now. They sound great, but are not pretty. I think my dad used them for wheel chair and knife and fork target practice :(( The pics do over emphasize the water stains. They under emphasize many minor dings and scratches. If someone wanted to make me an offer I could not refuse, well, I might consider selling them to someone on the KL forums here. DC area now, Too many low lifes, etc via CL. Not sure how to alert someone at Ebay administration about a likely scammer. NOLA

As I learned from many prior moves, pack 'em tight. In the Subaru photo from Matthews, I would definitely pad the right side of the photo and the corners of the speakers with bent up boxes, cardboard, lots of crumpled newspaper or folded up bath sized towels. Firm pillows between speaker and hatchback rear door. Think of your LS s like a papoose. Nice and warm and cozy all wrapped up in a blanket to save the finish from marring. Best part is that unlike wrapped up kids the LS s will not make number 1 or number 2 20 miles from the nearest clean rest room !! But they will easily tear a hole in the SUV ceiling padding or bust something else if you have to make a sudden stop or swerve if they are not securely immobilized. Remember guys, measure the inside distance between the rear wheel well interior covers that jut into and limit cargo space a bit. Must be a minimum of 36 inches.

They were at my parent's house in FL and not being used. In the end they were just a little too big for the main room and there was not enough room with my dad in the wheel chair. He was doing well with music therapy at first.... The rental SUV price plus gas was the same as an airline ticket for the trip back. Given all the things I need to do during trips to FL, selling these would have been a hassle and having strangers around to demo these for would not have been that cool. Considered donating them to a good organization. Simply easier to take up north where I am working now. Also I listened to them last night. Glad to have them with me here now. So really not all that crazy as the trip back went fine overall.

There was a seller about 6 months ago. You might want to contact Preston Tom. I tried to paste the url below and the crazy forum system makes it difficult. He seems to be an awesome Forum member. Very nice over the phone. Good luck. community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/166177-electro-voice-dx-38-dsp-crossover-even-lower-price/#comment-2133879

PM sent

Shipping Moving LaScalas SUV Truck Vehicle How To Guide Sorry for the goofy title, just wanted to make this easy to search and find for the next poor person doing this. I drove my Klipsch LaScala Is up north this past Saturday. I had some nice chats with folks here and a few ok emails via CL (but lots of scammers and strange folks on CL too). But there was to be no sale in FL. When I looked at the speakers they had many minor water marks, scuffs, scratches, a few small plywood chips, etc. The pics overstate the watermarks and far under represent all other issues. Not pretty; but they sound great. The cost to ship both on a pallet, shrink wrapped, would be around $500 for a 1000 mile trip. Too much for these. So I made some car rental reservations. Please be aware that most agencies will let you drive a vehicle out of FL super cheap during much or April well into May. Beginning after Spring Break, they need to get the cars out of FL as they are more needed elsewhere by now. Other 1 way specials could be available, so check as needed. As the LS 1s are 2 x 2 x 3 ft each, approx, that is the absolute minimum space needed. About 105 lbs each. I think the LS II s are a bit larger and much heavier. I think the 2 s would be very difficult to move due to the weight. Most any pickup truck will work as will most any commercial van, like a UHaul. Just remember you need a totally secure way to hold them in place somehow and pad them. Also, put some cardboard boxes below the LS’s and carefully pad the edges and the spaces between speakers. THEY WILL MOVE !!!! Minivans that I saw at the airport rental area had some major issues. It is a big lift to get a LS into a 2nd or 3rd row seat. It would not be easy to properly secure them, especially from a sudden stop. If you can remove the seats, which could be difficult, the floor surface could be very uneven and require many boxes or towels for padding to protect the speakers. Might even need wooden boards for the purpose. Possibly a real pain. And remember, at a rental agency, you have no control over what is available to rent when you show up in most cases. Someone mentioned a Prius. I did not see one to measure, but I suspect it would be a tight fit. I rented a 2017 Nissan Rogue, ?SV. Sort of a base model I think. Only a 4 cylinder which was great – got 30+ MPG over about 1100 miles. Several other SUVs had far lower est MPGs, this saved me a lot of money on gas. Often going 80 MPH on the Interstate. Sometimes much slower, given congestion, etc. It was comfy too. I did the trip in 16 ½ hours in 1 day. Ate power bars and such for lunch and dinner. $30-/day for the rental !! The key measurement is not the rear door hatch size !!!! It is the space between the inside rear wheel well covers !!!! On all of the non tiny SUVs I went into with a tape measure, there was at least a 24 x 36 inch entry at the rear hatch. Wheel well opening: Could not find a smaller car hatchback version like a Ford ?Fiesta, etc to measure. Maybe someone can chime in here. Ford Cmax, SEL Hybrid: tight at 37” Kia Soul: 40”. But had other major issues: the rear deck is about 1 ½ inches below the entry – so getting the LS s out will be a major problem. But the bigger issue is how the hatch lock bar is positioned and will likely ding the speakers without a lot of padding. Some other SUVs were clearly larger in the Standard SUV class: Hyundai Santa Fe, etc. I did not see a Rav4 to measure. I measured so many vehicles that 2 of the RAC folks thought I was being a nut and told me to stop, as I had already found a few vehicles that would work. How to pack your LS’s. I got 6 book boxes at Home Deport plus about another 6 boxes from WM about to be dumped. I used all of them. I padded the low central hatch lock area with 2 pieces of detachable long narrow carpeting that the Rogue had over the spare tire. I placed boxes over the cargo carpet and used 1-2 layers of boxes to help move the speakers in place. A neighbor’s scrawny 16 yo kid was able to lift the LS s all over the place, but we both moved these into the Rogue. Did not even need the moving dolly !! The kid was great but had no idea what these were. It took 2 people to get these out upon arrival up north. But I think a strong guy could get them out on his own. Despite padding the pavement below the rear hatch to stop from scratching the LS s upon removing them when I arrived, my helper almost missed the boxes and towels on the ground !! If the finish on your LS s is nice, add some sheets under them to protect the finish when loading them up !! The LS behind the driver did not need extra padding here. I let a box jut out about 6 inches to the front. I did pad the roof corners so as not to damage the speaker corners nor tear a hole in the roof padding. Pieces of boxes and bath towels worked fine. There was some shifting of this speaker during the drive so I had to redo this edge corner protection every few hours. I had a few small boxes and car carpet mats between the 2 speakers. About 4-6” thick The rear speaker by the hatch had edge corner bath towel padding. I used bent up boxes to pad the wheel well areas, where there was about 1” of padding needed on each side. Again, use sheets next to your speakers here too if the finish is nice. To stop the rear speaker from sliding, some couch type firm pillows were used between the rear speaker at the door / glass for the rear hatch. These were a lifesaver. Otherwise that speaker would likely have moved too. I needed about 3 cushion pillows for the Rogue. My carry on bag fit to the base of the front speaker. My backpack fit in front of the passenger seat. My receiver fit on top of a folded up cardboard box on the passenger seat itself. There was no extra space !! Also please note that the rear seats for Rogue go flat – but at about a 10 to 15 degree angle. With the weight of the LS it did flatten out even more. However, this could be a major issue on some SUV models. That is also why you need good padding between the 2 speakers: boxes, pillows, etc. Don’t use sleeping pillows – they are too soft. Use firmer couch pillows. In brief, be sure to get a somewhat bigger vehicle for a long trip. I did not need to catnap in the SUV, and would not have been able to recline the front seat down either. Also, you need to accelerate and stop slowly with the LS s on board. This is not easy on a congested highway nor poorly laid out exit ramp. Hope this helps the next person. From NOLA with love

Will be available to show these tomorrow afternoon near WPB if anyone is interested. O/W, I will likely bring up North.

In the fourth line of the initial post, $900.00. But central TX is far away from South Florida. Thx NOLA

bump

Hello. Seems like there are a few of us in the DC area. Maybe we should try figure out how to do a get together. BTW, nice speakers. Hope you are moving on to others things that make you happy. NOLA