JTA

After getting sidetracked restoring a pair of Decorator Khorns that I have had in storage for quite sometime, I opted to pick up a new set from my dealer which have a few demo hours on them. I set them up them up this evening. While they certainly look great, as the pair I got is finished in Mahogany, their sound is really not up to par with their appearance. They are placed flush in the corners along an 18' wall and the listening position is roughly 16' back from that wall, slightly behind direct center of the horns. The floor is carpeted with thick carpet, there are two decent sized couches in the room and one wall has a thick curtain which sits over a sliding glass door. They are being powered by a new pair of McIntosh MC501s connected to a McIntosh MX135 pre/pro. The source is a McIntosh MVP861. All of these components are connected with Kimber KCTG XLR cables and the speaker cable is Kimber BiFocal XLs. Initially upon playing these, the sound from the speakers was extremely bright, the midrange horns were blarring and the bass was a bit lacking (less than the Cornwalls they replaced). On some recordings they are almost unlistenable at moderate listening levels. As a test I placed fabric over the horns and it seemed to tame them quite a bit, but of course a lot of the detail was lost. Reluctantly, after that, I made some tone adjustments turning the treble down a few dbs and the bass up a bit. That certainly helped but I have always taken comfort in leaving the EQ flat as I feel it offers the purest undistorted sound. Though improved with the EQ adjustments, they still have that PA speaker bright, unmusical sound. The Cornwalls were not this extreme in their sound, but then again their drivers were quite a bit lower and out of ear level, where as the Khorn's drivers are closer to ear level. They look great and they certainly were a task getting them set up on my own due to their size, but is there anything I can do to tone these speakers down or is this simply the nature of the beast? Perhaps I would be better suited with another type of speaker. I could easily return these, so I am not worried about that.... well maybe about my back Any help would be greatly appreciated. I will take some pictures of the setup tomorrow for those that want to see.

I did, thank you very much. I sent you an email asking if maybe you had some pictures of the assembly.

I am converting a pair of Decorator Khorns to the finished B style. Does anyone have a rough plan or some pictures of how the horn boxes on the Khorn B's are assembled and how they are attached? I have the dimensions for the parts but I am having a difficult time trying to figure out how the horn box is put together.

The Cornwalls are great. I just finished redoing my pair of verticals... Bob's networks, new K77 and K55 diaphrams, new K33Es, new wiring and a few boxes of rope caulk. While their bass is great and they hit pretty hard at certain frequencies, they are absolutely trampled on by my Epic CF-4s in the bass department. My Cornwalls are currently being powered by a pair of McIntosh MC501s in a pretty decent sized room, while my CF-4s are being powered by a McIntosh MC207 elsewhere, so it is definately the speakers. For a 30 year old speaker though, they are pretty amazing to say the least. They definately have the edge in the midrange department over the Epics. The Cornwalls are going to be moved to surround sound duty and are going to be replaced by a pair of Decorator Khorns that I am working on. That should be a nice comparison test.

I recently installed a pair of Bob's networks in my Cornwalls along with new diaphrams for the K55s and K77s and new K33E woofers. The difference was definately noticable over the aging networks and drivers that were in the speaker originally. After that, I replaced the factory wiring from the back panel to the network, the K55s to the network and the K33s to the network with 12 gauge wire and the appropriate connectors from Radio Shack. I opted to leave the K77s alone due to the fragile looking nature of their tabs. I must say that in doing the wire mod I did notice more depth in bass and more clarity overall throughout the rest of the speaker. The original Klipsch zip cord appeared to be in good shape so I would say there is a benefit to replacing the smaller gauge wiring Klipsch used 30 years ago with something a little beefier.

Klipsch builds these to order. They do not really keep them in stock. It can typically take a month or more to get them depending on I would assume the dealer's relationship with Klipsch and production levels of the other lines of speakers at the time. I have a single La Scala on order and the lead time was roughly 4-6 weeks. I would assume that very few Khorns are built each year. The current Heritage line in general is doubtfully much of a money maker. There is a very small percentage of potential speaker buyers today that are interested in a man-sized, furniture-esque speaker that needs to be placed in the corner of a large room, regardless of how great it sounds. It is nice that Klipsch still sticks to its roots though. Most other companies would have dumped them.

Although that Yamaha can certainly drive those speakers to high levels, I believe the question is if the user is getting the maxium potential out of their speakers with it. The answer is most asuredly no; not from a reciever and very likely not from most amplification from Japan. A seperate amp will of course, depending on what it is, be a substaintial upgrade. It is all a matter of what you are willing to spend. I had a Sony DA777ES reciever which is probably pretty close in power and sound to the Yamaha, over time I pre-amped it to a pair of Crown D150s. The sound change was pretty dramatic, especially in the low end. After the Sony I went with a Denon 5803, which sounded pretty good for a reciever. I then later pre-amped it to my Crowns again, with a minimal improvement. After I swapped out the Crowns for a McIntosh MC207. The difference was huge. Far more dynamic. Recently, I replaced the Denon with a McIntosh MX119 preamp. The clarity improved tremendously. The all McIntosh setup made everything I had previously sound absolutely laughable. Obviously one can only spend within their means, but the sound quality and output potential to be had over a reciever is absolutely huge. Those who have only listened to their speakers on something like this Yamaha in question have not even begun to realize their potential.

Thank you for the replies. I believe they are '74 models. For now I am just going to leave them raw birch. Please post pics when you are done, the piano black should look quite nice.

I have a pair of Decorator Khorns that I am about to have refinished, similar to the attached picture. I have been considering not building the horn box around the mid and hf horns and leaving them exposed as referenced in the picture. Does the lack of the horn box have any impact on sound?

Yep. Should be a nice setup when it is done. Full range all around. I just got my amps, processor and other gear in, so just trying to finalize on the speakers.

Thanks. I'll likely be going with a sub anyway. Not sure on what yet. For my rears I will be using a pair of vertical Cornwalls.

Would the Belle or the La Scala be a better match for the Khorns? I believe the Belle has a different mid horn than the La Scala and Khorn, but I do not know how much that matters. Thanks.

I have a pair of decorator Klipschorns that were finished and then modified to fit a wall with paneling on it. I am looking into the possibility of having them refinished and rebuilt to their original design for a standard wall and will be sending them to a wood shop to have this done. Does anyone have blueprints for these speakers so I can provide them with the proper dimensions?

Well I have upgraded my Denon 5803 which was running as a pre/pro for my MC207 to a McIntosh MX119. I also upgraded my old Sony 7700 DVD player to the McIntosh MVP861. Very, very big difference. A significant amount more detail exists now. The midrange is more present and the bass is deeper and tigher. The speakers do still run a bit harsh though. I know some of it is the room, but perhaps a crossover upgrade can 'cool' them off a bit. No more japanese audio components for me. Just my TV, VCR and Playstation.

Definately a scam. Cashiers check + another country = scam.

The bass is much tighter and deeper on the CF-4s than the Cornwalls. Although, my Cornwalls are 30 years old and in need of a refresh. The Khorns just simply have more presence if that makes any sense. I would say the CF-4s definately go deeper though. They have subwoofer level bass.

Only the KV-4 was meant for the CF speakers. The rest of the KV's were built to be used with the various lines of KG speakers.

I would be curious also as to what area would be most improved from a crossover with those better parts. More clarity? Better dynamics? I put the front spikes on coins to angle the speakers up toward my listening level even further and that has definately helped some while making the upper frequencies more clear and focused. These speakers appear to be extremely sensative to room placement. Shiva what does the wiring look like inside your speakers? Mine looks 'like' Monster Cable in maybe a 16 gauge.

No, there were areas inside the cabinet that did not have foam on the speaker walls and in general there did not appear to be any rational way that the foam was layed out. Infact, the foam placement was drastically different inside each speaker with one having several more foam sheets than the other. I noticed no difference in sound quality after evening out the foam other than improved low end bass. What can be done to the networks?

Anyone? Please.

The plasma burn is more hype than anything else these days. Though it was the case on older and cheaper plasma sets, the newer units do not suffer from this problem nearly as much and many have software features to prevent it. This issue is hyped a lot to help sell LCD and DLP based televisions, which though are more reliable, are inferior in picture quality.

It won't be a problem. I have used my 207 on a pair of Cornwalls, KG 5.5s and Epic CF-4s. If any Klipsch speaker was going to explore the limits of that amp it would be the CF-4s and the McIntosh handles them wonderfully. The Sunfire is not even in the same league as the MC207.

I recently bought a set of Epic CF-4s to replace my KG 5.5s in my bedroom setup. I have been playing around with the speakers trying to get the best sound out of them. I rope caulked the horns which definately seemed to tone them down a bit and I also repositioned the foam inside them (which seemed to be layed out differently in each speaker) to better cover the speakers walls. Where I had spaces open from the foam I used some sonic barrier I acquired from Parts Expresss. This seemed to increase bass extension slightly. In addition, because my seating position is slightly more elevated than a normal chair and the tweeters on the Epics are positioned lower than most Klipsch speakers, I purchased a set of adjustable carpet spikes and aimed the speakers up slightly. This appeared to improve their clarity a bit and definately made a notable increase in bass response. I have to say I am pretty impressed with the build quality of these speakers. The inside of the cabinet is reinforced along all of the corners with 1/2 x 1/2s and there is a large wood cross brace that runs behind tweeter horn from wall to wall to help sure up the cabinet. It appears the tops and sides are made out of plywood and the front and rear is very thick MDF. I have had a lot of Klipsch speakers apart and I'd have to say these are probably the most solid next to some of the larger hertiage speakers. The bass on these speakers is incredible and the imaging is quite impressive, however the midrange seems to be very subdued. I had hoped that by aiming the speakers more toward my listening position that this would improve, but it has not. Does anyone have any suggestions for improving this; or can it be improved? I believe someone mentioned upgrading the tweeters to JBL drivers. Is there anything else that can be done? The system that powers these speakers consists of a Denon 5803A being used as a pre/pro with a McIntosh MC207 being use for the amp. The DVD player is a Sony S7700 which is also serving duty as a CD player. Matched up with the CF-4s is a KV4 center channel and a pair of KSP-S6s. Within the next couple of weeks I will be replacing the Denon with a McIntosh MX119 and the Sony with the McIntosh MVP 861 to match up with the McIntosh/Klipsch Heritage setup I am working on in my basement for a dedicated home theater. I know this will greatly improve the sound, but I am unsure how much of an effect it will have on the subdued midrange sound of the Epics. I really like these speakers a lot, but have considered demo'ing a pair of RF7s in my home for comparison. I just do not see them being any real improvement over the Epics with their smaller horns, and I know they will not match up in the bass department. I don't really expect these speakers to produce the same midrange presence that my Cornwalls or KHorns do with their dedicated mid horns, but I was hoping for something a little more 'musical' then what the Epics are currently delivering. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Good luck. I refuse to use Fed Ex because they habitually damage things. I recieved a pair of KLF-30s that they absolutely destroyed and then during the claims process they said that there was nothing wrong with the speakers. To top it off, they lost one of the speakers enroute back to the shipper and then claimed they never had it. UPS is better, but not by a lot, however their claims department blows Fed Ex away. Nothing is as bad as DHL though. They lose so many packages you'd swear it was on purpose. Not too long ago a friend of mine got into an argument with one of their dispatchers because they informed him that the house and street he lived on for over 15 years did not exist because they did not have it on their map. Not that they could not find it, but it did not exist and they accused him of giving an incorrect address. If you use any of those companies, just make sure the speakers are packaged very well with thick foam. I had a pair of Epic CF-4s shipped to me recently and the owner built crates around them and packaged them with thick 2" foam. UPS managed to drop one of the 150lb crates and break the sides off of it, but due to the use of that thick foam the speaker was undamaged. It is always hard to ship big speakers, freight is always the safest bet, especially when the box can be strapped to a pallet. It is a shame that many employees at shipping companies have some sort of sexual gradification for damaging people's property, so it makes it ever so important to pack what you ship as well as you can.

Plasma has the best picture after tube by far. Then it is a toss up between different types of projection setups and LCD. Rear projection can be nice but unless you have a fixed seating position dead center infront of it, they are not worth owning. Pioneer and Panasonic offer the best for plasma.