Sick Mother

At $1,000, you might want to rethink your budget for 7.1 or reconsider your setup. Do you have any gear at the moment, or do you need everything (cables, TV, stand, reciever, etc.)? Does the setup have to be reference? Klipsch's reference line is great, but you might be pressed to get some nice stuff (much less SEVEN speakers, sub, reciever and cables for a grand). I think most people here would agree there is VERY little, if any difference between a 5.1 and 7.1 setup unless you have a. a treated room, b. a blu ray-player AND disks encoded in seven channels and c. a receiver that can handle it. Even then people are split on it's impact on your listening experience. Looking at 5.1 might help make this project more possible. Besides, you can always add the other channels later if you really want. (I've had 5.1 for years and have no interest in "upgrading"). Having said this, keep a look on this forum as well as audiogon (to name just two) for good used gear. My recommendation would be to buy the best front speakers (l/c/r) you can, since this is where a vast majority of the sound will be coming from. I would not spend much of your budget on cables or reciever - the technology changes, values drop quickly, etc. Before buying my RF-83 setup, I had synergy f-3s and c-3 and they sounded GREAT. Take a look at those. Good luck and God bless.

I'd get the 63's now and worry about the surrounds later. Deals alway pop up and the surrounds aren't nearly as important as your fronts. John

+1 What is the main application for this display? Sports? Movies? Entertaining? If its sports or entertaining, I would DEFINETLY steer clear of a projector. How often are you entertaing in the dark (with your clothes on and watching a TV)[] Same thing with sports...it's just a lights-on activity and a projector would not be good for that situation. If on the other hand this is 100% movies, they rock. The ability to renew the light source, go big inexpensively, and have great contrast make DLPs great though. John

If you are definetly going to wall mount it, and definetly are good with 60", the Pioneer Elite Kuro is practically a lock. There is arguably no set out there with better picture quality. Unfortunately Pioneer is getting out of the biz (Panasonic will take over making their displays) so get one while you can. They make 50" and 60" sets. Obviously you don't replace/upgrade often so you want to make sure its the right size and quality. Are you sure you want it wall mounted? I only ask because your center channel, cable box, DVD, etc. sticks out a foot or so anyway and a nice entertainment center may work well. If so, Mitsubishi has a new line of DLPs that get HUGE (can you say 82"?) for relatively little money. I have priced out the WD-82737 on amazon for $4k shipping included. I understand that may be more screen than you want, but they have other sizes and as you can see it's far more cost effective than either LCD or plasma. Whatever set you get, I personally recommend having it professionally calibrated. It isn't free but will certainly make an already good looking set look great. Good luck. John

I hate to be the one who rains on the parade, but this isn't set in stone, as the title implies. "Loud TV commercials may be coming to an end" I hate this problem as much as the next guy, but at this point overseers, regulators, and executives are "coming together"...whatever that means. John

Something to keep in mind when going "overkill": the RF-83s are ported in the rear. What this means is that they breathe in from the back to make all their pretty noises. Ideally, you want them about 3 feet away from the wall, so if you plan on putting them against the wall like your other speakers, don't. Not only will it sound awful while set up like that, it will probably destroy them in the process. Practically any floorstanding speaker you buy can make your ears bleed,especially in a room that small, but is that what you really want? Or do you want quality sound. I love my RF-83/RC-64 combo, but this decision seems less about quality sound and more about "ear bleeding." You make want to make some SERIOUS consideration here...IMHO. Good luck.

Sex panther

Prior to my current setup, I had Synergy F-3s, C-3, and S-2s powered by a H/K AVR 235. It sounded very nice. Then I bought the Parasound and the differenence was ENORMOUS. At that point I was using an amp that had a rating equal to the RMS of the mains. I then bought my RF-83s and, to be quite honest, didn't hear a night and day difference. I have since gotten very used to the sound of my system, upgraded to the 3808ci, ran Audessey, tweaked my sub settings, blah blah blah, and now I like my system more than ever. Still...

This is a case of "missing something". Ultimately though, if i am in fact missing something, than I would also need a "bump in power" lol. Obviously, I don't NEED more volume, or really power for that matter, but I am wondering if there would be a (measurable) difference in sound QUALITY with an additional 125wpc (or any amount for that matter). It may not be the case with a quality 125w that the Parasound is putting out, but since I don't know, I'm asking you guys. Thanks.

So far I have been very happy with the Parasound and I am aware of the speaker's sensitivity. I also know that many Klipsch speakers (the RF-7 to name one) really sings with even more power. I don't know that to be the case with the 83s, but it sure has me wondering. I guess its like all GOOD/GREAT things...people want to know what is better. I'm sure there is some yahoo out there with Wilsons,PF-39s, Revel Salon2 or some other crazy speakers powered by a Halrco, Krell,etc. and is wondering "what can I do to make this sound better?" Lol right now I am one of those guys...minus the super high end gear. []

Youthman, In regards to the Parasound being the better choice; that was my guess too. The Denon uses rear surround outs to "bi-amp". Lol I was really hoping to see a bump in power this way. The RF-83s are rated at 250w rms and the most I have ever fed them is 125w. I would love to see what I am missing. Of course, at that point I would really being driving myself mad feeling the need to upgrade the amp to a Parasound A51 (250w) or something along those lines... Ignorance is bliss? [*-)]

The 3808ci has outputs for biamping, so it wouldn't be just removing the metal bracket if that is what you're thinking. The Denon rep told me I would then have 130w going to the highs and another 130w going to the lows. It seems it would be a big improvement over the 125wpc I am getting with the Parasound, but I just don't know if this is in fact the case. I saw another thread here on something similar to this, but it didnt really involve a seperate amp, which is why I have started this one.

I asked this question in the technical section, but thought I'd try here as well and see if I can get more traction... I currently have a Parasound Halo A52 putting out 125wpc run by a Denon 3808ci powering my RF-83s. I have been using the Parasound instead of the Denon for amplification because I believe it does a better job (although I have never done an A/B test on the two). With the possibility of bi-amping the Denon, I am wondering if I will see any noticeable improvments. Will I lose headroom going this route? Are there any other factors I should be considering? I know alot of people would say to hook it up and try it, but before I go through the huge pain it would be, I'm hoping someone with experience will chime in. Thanks.

etc6849, I'd be interested to get your (and anyone else's opinion) on bi-amping my RF-83s. I currently have a Parasound Halo A52 putting out 125wpc run by a Denon 3808ci. I have been using the Parasound instead of the Denon for amplification because I believe it does a better job (although I have never done an A/B test on the two). With the possibility of bi-amping the Denon, I am wondering if I will see any noticeable improvments. Will I lose headroom going this route? Are there any other factors I should be considering? I know alot of people would say to hook it up and try it, but before I go through the huge pain it would be, I'm hoping someone with experience will chime in. Thanks.

PS I spoke to a klipsch associate on the phone some time ago about this very issue. I had the same concerns I'm sure you are having right now. He (I don't remeber who I spoke to) told me that there wouldn't be a huge deal between the two. Yes, the 62s would obviously be better, but since the rears don't get that much of the soundtrack anyway, it wouldn't be a night and day difference. And that's coming straight from Klipsch. John

I have the 42s matched with the 83s and the rc-64. While the placement isn't ideal on them (room issues), they sound very good to me. I haven't heard the 62s so I can't really draw a comparison between the two, but if you can buy them now, try them out, and sell them for no loss (if need be), why not? God forbid you actually like them and decide to keep them, and in the process save yourself money NOT buying the RS-62s. I say give it a shot. John

BTW, are you considering used gear? If so, check out Audiogon. Often times there are great deals to be had and you'd have no idea it was used when you looked and listened to it. John

With a $2,000 max budget in mind, I would strongly look at the RB-81s run by a Onkyo tx-sr606. Even at MSRP, that will put you well below your MAXIMUM budget, and allow you to save up for other components down the line. The speakers will be your best long term purchase so saving money here is not the way to go. While I haven't heard the RB-81s, there are plenty of people here who have and can give you a real good idea for how they sound. Believe it or not, two speakers set up properly can trick you into thinking sound is coming straight from the center. If you were to buy a center, it matches the RC-62, which has an MSRP of $499, still putting you at your budget. Personally, I would probably hold off on a center and buy a real good, used sub. SVS, Epik, and Elemental Designs are great subs that alot of us here own and love. You'll need to look at dimensions of different subs to make sure they fit into your spot. The customer service at SVS and Epik is also fabulous (don't know about ED). As for the reciever, I'm thinking of the sr606 mainly because it can decode DTS-MA and Dolby True HD, the new lossless surround formats. At $600, it was the least expensive unit they make that does that. Pretty importent (IMO) to have those if you'll be watching blu-ray. What I wouldn't do is try to buy all if it for only $2,000, since it's more than likely you'll be putting yourself back into the same position you're just coming out of. Rather, piece your system together over time as your finances permit. Good luck and let us know how it goes. John

The first thing I would do is go back and look at some of the older posts. There is an enormous amount of information already here. This site has seen this question many times before, always with the same questions in return. What will the room be used for? 100% HT? Any music? How much? Do you want small speakers or do you want them to have a presence? What is your total budget (not just speakers)? Do you want the room acoustically treated? What did you like/dislike about your current and past setups? Until we know more, it's pretty hard to give sound advice. Good luck and welcome to the forum. John

Test

James, thanks again for that stand link. I called Bush and maybe we were doing something wrong, because it looks as if EVERY stand they make is either not large enough or able to accomodate 61 pounds in the top shelf. Ideally, I would like to put it on the shelf directly beneath the TV, with components on the bottom one. Do you (anyone here, really) use a bush stand that is holding a RC-64? Or any other stand for that matter. It seems these companys are making stands hopelessly inadequate for the monster that is the RC-64. John

I see a couple of you guys recommended a bush stand for the RC-64. My only "problem" is my TV is too big for that stand. Any other suggestions? It seems nearly impossible finding a stand that looks great, holds a bunch of gear, and is large enough for what I need. My current stand is roughly 58 inches wide. Its looking more and more like my next upgrade will in fact be the RF-83/RC-64 combo. I am certain they will sound phenominal, but can't help being a little leary it COULD be a bit much in my townhouse. My current synergy setup was SPL'ed to the room. Will these also have to be, or can those same settings carry over to new speakers? (Excuse me if this is a silly question, but I am certainly a novice at this compared to the gurus on this forum), Thanks again guys. You've all really been of tremendous help thus far. John

Guys, great feedback so far and greatly appreciated. In all, I'm a bit surprised in the discussion about upgrading the amp now. I guess I figured a Parasound Halo amp is one of the strongest points in my system at the moment, regardless of the 125wpc rating. I have always been under the impression Parasound watts are "better" watts than most other amps. (Maybe its just more conservative. Who knows?) My thoughts are: upgrade the speakers now, and the reciever/pre-amp later when prices come down and the new decoders are available for DTS-HD, etc. This might sound like a dumb question, but will there be a noticeable difference between the F-3 and RF-83 at moderate volumes or mainly at higher ones? I obviously can't go psycho on the volume much in a townhouse. Last, are there any good recommendations on TV stands that can hold an RC-64? Its such a monster, and with my arrangment, I would like to leave it below the TV for the time being. Thanks! John

Guys, thanks for the help thus far. I'm a bit confused. Do you think I should upgrade the speakers or pre-amp first? Am I really going to notice THAT much a difference between a new one and my current one? More difference than rf-83s and F-3s? Correct me if I am wrong, but I was always under the impression the single biggest contributor to sound (other than maybe the room itself) are the speakers. I have read here in the forum to spend about half your budget on speakers. Currently, I am not even close to that with the synergy setup. lol I feel (maybe wrongly) my amp is a fairly high-quality amp, while my speakers are only fair (at least by Klipsch and forum standards). If I am going to upgrade now, I want to put that money where it will make the most difference, and I am THINKING new speakers will do that. What do you guys think? Thanks again! John

Someone please help me! I currently have the Synergy 3s up front with S-2s in the rear. My preamp is a H/K AVR 235 and amp is a Parasound A52 (125w/ch). My sub is an M&K 350 THX. I live in a townhouse (don't tell me, I already know it sucks for what we here all do) where the fronts are about 7 feet apart and are placed in a room 22 feet deep and 8 feet tall. I sit about 18 feet from them. I have a 3-pane wide sliding glass door on one of the long sides of the room, and the entire room is carpeted. There is a good chance I will be able to sell my fronts (maybe with the center) in the near future, which would help me purchase some RF-83s. If not, I could possibly put them to use as my rear channels. Some of my questions are: will I have noticeable/any timbre issues using F-3s as rears? At 7 feet apart, would the 83s be too close? ( know it COULD work, but would it sound "not so bueno"?) Is the Parasound A52 enough to really let the 83s (and hopefully RC-64) come alive? Would the S-2s become totally useless at that point? And possibly most importantly, are 83s entirely too much speaker in a townhouse? Maybe I hit my head thinking I wouldn't get the upgrade bug in the future with the new reference line, but that's what my hope is. My use is probably 95% HT, 5% music (although I greatly enjoy 2 channel). Any and all help would be greatly appreciated. I know hearing the 83s would help a great deal, but the room I listen to them in and my townhouse are greatly different. Besides, I have yet to really hear anything truly bad about them. Thanks! John