Edgar

Got it. Looks like he revised the code without revising the revision number.

I suspect that the product number is the date of download.

Mine is missing the distortion field. Here's the version info:

I just tried that. It offers SPL, electrical input power, acoustical output power, and system efficiency. Unfortunately no distortion.

Most woofers won't go to 2K. Using Keele's equations, I find that the best 12" are lucky to get to 500Hz before mass-rolloff, and the best 10" only go to ~800Hz. For 2kHz you might need to use a dedicated midrange driver or some EQ.

Which version of HornResp does that? I'm running v17. Perhaps there's a newer version. If I can find some time, I might try the rubber throat distortion analysis. Greg

Oh, man; I really need to make friends with someone with your woodworking skills. I can crank out designs like doughnuts, but I can't saw a straight line with a laser beam. There may be a way around that problem. A couple of years ago I came up with a modification to the tractrix equations that led to what I call the "Elongated Tractrix" contour. It maintains the full 90° mouth of the tractrix, but the horn is longer, like an exponential, and in fact the overall contour is closer to a hyperbolic. I corresponded with Bruce Edgar (no relation!) about it, and he seemed interested at first. But then he simply disappeared, and I don't know whether it was because it was not a viable idea or he just got busy with other things. I'm at work right now, and the derivation is on my computer at home, but if anyone is interested I can post it later. Nice, nice work. I am envious. Greg

(Hopefully not a double-reply; the Website coughed while I was previewing my original response and it disappeared completely.) No "harsh" intent taken from your words. I'll defer to your knowledge on this subject. I'm still skeptical about the rubber throat. Though I know that PWK liked it, simulation models indicate that it leads to a very rough frequency response. If it really does result in audibly lower throat distortion, though, then perhaps that's a worthwhile trade. Thanks, Greg

Yes, now that you mention it I recall either reading that somewhere or concluding it myself at some point in the past. For the home, where the SPL is nowhere near what it is in a theater, that issue may very well disappear. That was exactly my objective in the design I called Alternate Jubilee 3; see previous posts. Thanks, Greg

It's a great way to kill a boring day ... at work. I agree. However, there may be ways to improve it for specific circumstances. I cannot say this with certainty, but it looks to me like the Jubilee was designed as a corner horn that doesn't HAVE to be placed in a corner. In a theater or club there is no guarantee that there will be a good corner available. If that is true, then redesigning it to both be more attractive and as a dedicated corner horn, for use in the home, may be a worthwhile pursuit that just might bring some improvement. Again, I agree. However, given that the Jubilee is an already proven design, it makes a good starting point. Electro-Voice EVM-10M and DL-10X are very good. But I don't know if they're still available. However, just scaling everything in a horn by a constant generally doesn't work very well. Thought experiments are fun. I wish that I could build some of the designs I've come up with, but time and skill prevent it. Thanks, Greg

Thank you, jc. Here is the HORNRESP modeled response using the Klipsch K31 (previous EVM-12L model in gray), and the HORNRESP.DAT parameters so that you can check for yourself. Greg 0.5 x Pi 2.83 0.00 14.99 580.00 816.00 23.53 0.00 816.00 1727.40 59.75 0.00 1727.40 2817.66 29.45 0.00 2817.66 5527.15 44.81 0.00 530.009.69E-04 71.00 5.70 15.90 1.96 1.34 2P 80.00 40.00 0.00 20.00 4.00 376.00Two Klipsch K31; Alternate Jubilee 3 ConConConCon

For comparison, here's the HORNRESP response for the standard Jubilee. Numbers directly from the Klipsch/Delgado JAES article. Again, woofers are EVM-12L; I don't have model parameters for the Klipsch drivers.

Here's the HORNRESP response for that design with two EVM-12L inside (which I used because I just happen to have four of sitting unused in boxes). Of course, HORNRESP cannot model the effects of the folds. And here's the HORNRESP.DAT file info: 0.5 x Pi 2.83 0.00 14.99 580.00 816.00 23.53 0.00 816.00 1727.40 59.75 0.00 1727.40 2817.66 29.45 0.00 2817.66 5527.15 44.81 0.00 500.002.12E-04 32.00 5.20 17.50 3.30 0.50 2P 80.00 40.00 0.00 20.00 4.00 376.00Two EVM12L; Alternate Jutilee 3 ConConConCon

Here's another one. This one is 28½" from corner to face, so the 500 Hz Altec horns will fit. Again, I'm just playing with my CAD program. I wouldn't dream of second-guessing Paul Klipsch or Roy Delgado. But I do like to think about what could be ...

The frequency response associated with Figures 4 and 6 is in Figure 5, not in Figure 9. Compare Figure 5 with Figure 8, and below 500 Hz they're pretty similar.

The 511A is 18½" deep but doesn't need a separate throat. Might work. http://www.voiceofthetheatre.com

Like I said, just fiddling with CAD. Sometimes it's good to stimulate the imagination.On edit: PS "Edgar" is just my forum name; I have no relation whatsoever to Bruce Edgar. I took the name from Edgar Montrose, a character on the Red Green show who likes to blow stuff up.

Won't fit without hanging-over the edge. The 805 and 1005 are 17+" deep, plus 4½" for throat, plus maybe 6" for driver. The bass horn is only 25¼" from the corner to the front face.

I've seen a lot of references here to "ugly" Jubilees. So I sat down this morning with a copy of the original Klipsch/Delgado JAES paper and TurboCAD, to see if I could change the external appearance while keeping the internals the same. The graphic shows what I came up with. It is now a true corner horn. The shape of the backchamber is different, but the volume is the same. The horn follows the taper described in the JAES paper almost exactly, in fact the "A", "B", "C", and "D" callouts correspond to the similarly labeled points in the paper. Note that I haven't built this, only fiddled with it in CAD. But maybe it will give some of the DIYers some inspiration.

I've had an APC UPS for several years; no problems whatsoever. I like it because it provides a real sinewave output. I'm not certain whether, by "power conditioner", you mean the same thing as "uninterruptible power supply". A few years ago I was in the local "Batteries R Us" store and saw a big pile of APC power supplies in the corner, $10/each (without batteries). I asked the clerk to explain, and he said that many people bring in their UPS when the batteries die, and when they find out the cost of replacement batteries they say, "No, thanks, I'll buy a new one," and leave the UPS behind. So you might be able to pick up a used one for a song. Then go someplace like "http://www.batterystation.com/ups.htm" for replacement batteries, and you're in business.

Ah; thank you. I tried Google with every combination of keywords that I could think of, but all I got was "Between the Lines" by Janis Ian.Greg

Okay; here's a band that I've been trying to remember the name of for quite a while. Late '70s or early '80s German rock band, put out one album with a picture of a sailing ship falling off the edge of the earth. Sang a song called, I believe, "Between the Lines": "... so if you should read my book, sure won't take much time, make your way from page to page. It's all between the lines." Anybody? Thanks, Greg

Anybody know if they ever found the missing master tapes for Black Cow and Aja?

For anyone else who might be interested, I checked again and mine are 8 Ohm. If you really have to have 16 Ohm, I suspect that it's only a diaphragm replacement away. Check with Bill Hanuschak at Great Plains Audio to be sure: "http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/PartsList.html". Greg

See message #914769.