ClaudeJ1

Very nice! Thanks! How do they sound at home? I am just as happy with their sound as I was with the CWIII's. The only thing I miss is the size of the Cornwalls. I am sure once I get them into a larger listening space they will shine even brighter. The room they are in now is pitifully small. Hey, I really like your television STAND. I have one just like it. LOL.

AHA. First time I have seen the guts of a LS II. Had many L S in my life, a few for DJ work in the 80's, and 3 at home. All with modified AA's and K33 and 43 woofers. I'm sure a HUGE part of the improvement with the LS II is in the network, where they MUST kill the 7 db peak at 140 Hz. or so in that bass horn. Once that happens, the rest is easier to deal with. Having a sub means this will trounce a Cornwall I, II or III........a 3 way Jube with Active Xover might trounce the LS II, but it would NOT be pretty and get no respect from the other half.

No kidding. A friend of mine recently showed me an ad for $15,000 cables. The very EXISTENCE of this pisses me off. It has been proven over the years (Nelson Pass included), that anything beyond even 14 AWG wire of reasonable length was inaudible. There is science, math, instruments and statistical double blind listening that cables are inaudible, but these things will persist into the next millenium, I fear, like 2-inch "woofers." I measure less than 10-250 MILLIWATTS when my horns are playing at a reasonably loud level. Woofers take the most POWER to drive, yet mine measured 25 milliwatts typically while the mid horns measured 10 milliwatts. 250 mw was for the tapped horn sub. Woofers typically have #30 AWG wire in the coil, so why do we need cables that can jump start a locomotive? The answer is "marketing."

Is there a progress report in the near future??

I like the term, "subjectivist." My setup consists of an evolution of about 5 years and lots of measurements and listening of hundreds of components and combinations, all from the USED market. So, the instruments are "objectivist," and provide the other half of the process to determine REAL WORLD performance at a reasonable cost. The real world is MY ROOM, and taste in "test music." Any other criteria, at any price is irrelevant. Most people who can afford these extravagant speakers mostly want the bragging rights and of course they will sound good.

If the Grand Enema, I mean, Grand Enigma speaker is your cup of tea, then you can get about 40 of the Klipsch Grand 4T's, each with KPT-684's for the same price and keep the hope factory busy for quite a while, with a TRUE "Wall of sound" Or, you can just get a pair of Danley Jericho Horns with the TH-221 "CineMonster" Subwoofer and blow those Grand Enemas right into the back wall and crush them. Than I would take the leftover cash and build the best listening ROOM humanly possible, which is 90% of the "sound," not the speaker.

That is quite inspiring to a guy like me who has only cut 3/4" plywood for speaker projects only. I used to have a Scott 299 and it didn't look like that. LOL. good sounding amp, as was McIntosh240, and Harman Kardon Citation II. But I switched to SS after the whole world cleaned up their SS amps after the TIM distrotion paper was published by Dr. Matti Otala of Finland. but I remember the tube sound on my Altecs very fondly, expeically the Scott.

Somehow, I knew you would ask me for that Mike. You are like the National Enquirer of Audio.

For the casual observer of this thread, below the so-called Schröder frequency of the room (also known as the sparse mode region), room modes are further apart and easier to identify on the FR plots. In most home listening rooms this is up around 200 Hz but it can be lower, for instance in my room it is calculated to be 126 Hz and it is easy to see in my room setup FR plot, above. Chris Linkwitz' approach to sound reproduction really blows my mind. He is a Dr. Non-Linear System Compensation EQ man for sure. Beyond the scope of my text. LOL. There's a reason why he and Riley revolutionized pro sound reproduction in all Digital Xovers in the world today.

Somehow, I knew you would ask me for that Mike. You are like the National Enquirer of Audio.

It's not a monster sub, it's 30x60 inches and only 14" tall..............a coffee table. http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/139522.aspx?PageIndex=19

Here's the expanded view to 400 Hz. with no smoothing (1/48th resolution)............still very good........Audyssey on with and without sub, just a power off switch on subwoofer amp. I tamed the FH1/K33's 130 Hz. peak with a fairly low Q 10 db cut and did a 3 db boost at 80 hz with the DCX2496/woofer amp. Mid and Tweet each single cap from the receiver amp.

I"m not sure of what my room modes are. I only have side wall home made absorbers that were given to me by a friend who built a new HT room and didn't need them anymore......F unknown . Otherwise I have a computer workstation, drop ceiling (only 7 ft), thin paneling walls behind the rear channels room dimensions about 15 x 20, with another additional 10 ft. behind the thin wall, so for the super low end, I guess it's more like 15 x 30. The software is on my laptop, so I will pull up the curves at 1/24th, take a snapshot, and repost. I'm am curious also.

But of course........enjoyed the moment as well.

What is a sane and relevant level of unsmoothness? 1/6th, 1/12th? 1/24th octave?? My vote is for 1/12th because that represents each note in a scale, right? Or whatever you like.

Now there's an OXYMORON

This looks very nice. I also took out the peaks in room response from the Jubs, and the overall character of the room changed (dark green line - no smoothing applied). Aha, you are the guy with SPUDS. Very good. Your twin 8's have a bit less Sd than my single LAB12, but since you have 2 SPUDS, you have about 1.5 X more Sd than I do in an 18-20 ft. Tapped horn, so your low end extension is similar to mine. I helped a friend build 3 SPUDS for his new HT room and they are Amazing, I can totally relate to another TH owner. It's the best compromise out there for low group delay, lowest frequency extension, transients that match folded horn bass (albeit with a 70 hz. top end only on a TH). Long live Tom Danley, eh? the ONLY reason I don't have 2 in the corners as you do is because I live in a small condo with poor sound insulation to my 2 neighbors. Having mine as a "coffee table" puts the mouth at my feet........Audyssey says 2.5 feet from my head, but it's physically about 5................anyhow that proximity give me the super low bass at my ears without putting as much sub bass into the entire room. Thank goodness they are in a finished basement with concrete walls, but when I tried the corners, my OLDER neighbor knocked on my door to complain that her pictures were moving on the wall. Sounds funny here, but not funny to a neighbor. BTW, I just got done working on a set of Jubelike Drone bass units (two active 12's and one passive 12) with a forum member. I got some interesting measurements I will talk about at a later date. He has two DTS-10's, so you can imagine what that must sound like, eh?

I usually listen at or below 5.1 standard levels of 85 dB at my sweet spot. It is the reference level here on these curves also. I used 1/3 octave smoothing, since it's how we hear music. As you can see from the curves, my -6 db down point is about 48 Hz. for the digital EQ'd bass bin. All I do is turn the power amp on and off to get the Subwoofer extension. The -6 dB down point for the sub is at 15.75 Hz. which is quite impressive on Blue Ray movies like Tron Legacy (with the inherent Hollywood +10 dB boost in the LFE channel). This setup has taken me a long time to tweak, but this is the flattest overal bass response I have ever had, with amazing detail, impact, and clairity. I can pick out every bass note played, even on 5 and 6 string basses that put out sound at or below 31 Hz. Long live well applied digital EQ on inherently non-flat horns and rooms!! If there's now super low bass content during daytime listening, the TH sub just ignore it, just like it's supposed to, but it's there when the music calls for it. The curves below are the response for 2.1 for music on CD's. For movies, I believe the LFE channel goes to the sub with a +10 db boost when it follows Dolby/DTS standards for processing, but I have never measured it.

My Klipsch 1133 Drivers are 2" throat on a K402, and they do 300 Hz. I only use one capacitor, so it's fist order rolloff electrically, and 3rd order mechanically. For 85 db level at my sweet spot, I only measure about 10 milliwatts of power at the Xover input (based on voltage squared over 8 ohms), so it's safe.

http://community.klipsch.com/forums/t/164525.aspx

I usually listen at or below 5.1 standard levels of 85 dB at my sweet spot. It is the reference level here on these curves also. I used 1/3 octave smoothing, since it's how we hear music. As you can see from the curves, my -6 db down point is about 48 Hz. for the digital EQ'd bass bin. All I do is turn the power amp on and off to get the Subwoofer extension. The -6 dB down point for the sub is at 15.75 Hz. which is quite impressive on Blue Ray movies like Tron Legacy (with the inherent Hollywood +10 dB boost in the LFE channel). This setup has taken me a long time to tweak, but this is the flattest overal bass response I have ever had, with amazing detail, impact, and clairity. I can pick out every bass note played, even on 5 and 6 string basses that put out sound at or below 31 Hz. Long live well applied digital EQ on inherently non-flat horns and rooms!! If there's now super low bass content during daytime listening, the TH sub just ignore it, just like it's supposed to, but it's there when the music calls for it.

I like the automatic detection of DVD/Blue Rays VS. CD's in my Panasonic BD player. In concert with my Onkyo, it automatically switched to 2 channel with SUB whenever I listen to CD's. I still wanted decent sound without the sub for late night listening. Even thought my "coffee table" tapped horn mouth is at my feet in the sweet spot, it still penetrates the walls, even at low levels, when neighbors want to sleep. So I was simply turning it off, but the bass was too weak from just the FH-1. So applying an 8 db cut at 135 Hz. got rid of the peak that plagues this bass bin (and all older LaScalas too). The only thing remaining was the 10 db basss boost at 80 Hz. and I got some really flat response from about 50 Hz. to 350 Hz. with easy. It just took a while to find the right Q for the filters, and measuring with Room EQ Wizard on a laptop. When I turned my receiver's Audyssey Auto EQ one, it chose a Xover point to the Sub at 70 Hz.. I tried manually over riding this to 60, but it only reduced the total bass when the subwoofer, so I went back to the original Audyssey pick. Here's the curves showing with and without the sub. Listening to most music without the sub is still very good, but it has a FULL dimension when the sub is on, much more impact in the super low bass notes, which are present in many good recordings of recent times. When I listen at night, I avoid those CD's and listen to music without super low bass content and I'm happy, since most of the music is above 70 Hz. anyhow. Here are the composite curves:

While I was busy designing my own bass horn to replace the FH-1 bass bin in my Avatar, with some soon to be reconed EVM 15L's, my EQ unit crapped out. So I finally hook up my DCS2496 Digital Xover to control just the bass bin (cheap Scala, eh?) which contains a K33. What I discovered is that the 300 Hz. suckout I was suffering from came from having too slow of a slope on the woofer over 350 Hz. going into the K 402. By simply going to a Linkwitz-Riley 24 db/oct. band pass between 35 and 400 Hz. the suckout completely dissapeared. Now onto the bass.

Good advice from Chris. Any and All midrange AV receivers today have good amplifiers in them. Since all connections are internal, the perfomance is high speed and low noise, which any Heritage Klipsch speaker will reveal to you very quickly. The speaker is the best place to put your money. Buy Klipsch Heritage and reasonably priced electronics and you will trounce anything else anyone brings over for comparison, if they dare.

You would be very happy with a Cornwall. Not familiar with your speakers, but woofer size is usually a good indicator..........bigger is better for bass. The Cornwall has a 38 cm woofer and some nice horns for the top end.