Chris A

I'm sure that you can do anything that you want..[] Whether or not it receives the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval is another thing. []Chris

Well - that's almost true. Here is something that is very close... EDIT: http://www.klipsch.com/na-en/products/kpt-435-n-specifications/ http://www.klipsch.com/na-en/products/kpt-942-t-specifications/ If you talk to Roy D., he'll probably tell you that you need more sensitivity than the CW bass bin puts out in order to justify using a K--402 or K-510. I think that jwc did a KPT-435 or KPT-942 two-way once. You might direct your questions his way. Chris

Total upgrade cost to tri-amp the Belle = ~$600 (US) including Dx38 crossover, cables, and Crown D-75A amplifier. (Actually, I already had these items in-hand.) EDIT: By the way - to upgrade a pair of Belles or La Scalas to the "JuBelle" or "JubScala" configuration via bi-amping, the cost would be the $600 above + the cost of the K-402/K-69-A or K-510/K-69-A horns/compression drivers from Roy Delgado at Klipsch (roy.delgado@klipsch.com). The difference in sound quality from the JuBelle/JuScala upgrade from their stock configurations is difficult to quantify. Suffice it to say that you will hear a "really BIG difference". Chris

By the way, the tri-amped Belle seamlessly integrates with the Jubs. The original Belle AB crossover sounded harsh and its timbre off but once tri-amped and time-aligned, the Belle disappeared acoustically. When she first heard it, my wife spontaneously mentioned the soundstage was continuous and easy on the ears--and that she didn't know that it could be like that. Note that the advantages of active tri-amping or bi-amping are more than just "it sounds better". The tri-amped Belle center improves multi-channel SACDs/DVD-As, and HT mode is equally impressive. Chris

Kudret has improved his K402s by removing the flanges at the mouth of the horns and enclosed the backs with a complete wood cabinet. mikebse2a3 has also enclosed his K402s using a different approach using metal and what looks like laminates (formica, etc.). Chris

I think that "buy it now" price is much too high. I'd offer something in the range of $400-500 (USD) max., or simply wait since pro outfits are selling their Dx38s, apparently due to the appearance of the DC-One (2 in - 6 out) units that effectively save one space in a pro rack.Chris

When I was young, there was this piano player that lived around these parts that made his signature performance playing Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto #2 with the Chicago Symphony/Fritz Reiner. Many kids my age listened to this guy -- Van Cliburn. This recording in 3-channel has been reissued (from '58 and '62) in Living Stereo by BMG in hybrid multi-channel SACD. Pretty amazing--even the Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto #1. But the real shocker that I found recently--not on RCA but on Mercury "Living Presence" 35 MM reissue--is "Balalaika Favorites" by the Osipov Russian Folk Orchestra in 3-channel hybrid SACD. This recording beats anything that I've heard--digital or analog--which is a pretty tall order. I cannot believe the sound of the string orchestra (balalaikas) on this recording. It is simply amazing. It's also an interesting story since in '62 there weren't very many western recordings occurring in the former Soviet Union. Most highly recommended. Chris

If you are referring to the Crown XTi's--yes. I'd recommend the EV Dx38 route (or EV DC-One) even though the initial cost is higher--Dx38s can periodically be had on ebay for about 1/3 of list price. There are also other digital crossovers out there, like Ashley and Yamaha, but at higher prices.The K-402/K-69-A horns on ebay? Not likely--I've only seen one pair go on ebay in three years. Chris

Talk to Roy [] , but if you can find Kudret, he owns a pair of Jubilees north of the border...Islander owns the JubScalas out west. If you can't find Roy's email address, (i.e., he no longer posts here) shoot me an email. Chris

Both: the Crown XTi series are stereo amps with an integrated digital signal processor (DSP) to do the active crossover/EQ functions. Chris

Not a problem to change the settings. It takes about 10 seconds to change the two filter frequencies. I initially set the frequency higher to match the Belle's actual crossover point. Note that Klipsch Heritage crossovers do not electrically attenuate the midrange on the hf end - it rolls off due to the driver limitations itself. The tweeter is rolled off below the crossover frequency. See Al K's site to verify what I'm saying. Also note the 24 dB/octave Linkwitz-Riley filters used here to minimize the crossover band between tweeter and midrange: This is pretty important when trying to minimize "lobing" of the tweeter/midrange crossover region. Chris

(See post #50 for using the Belle with a Beyma CP25 tweeter.) (Here is another link to 3-way "JuBelle" settings that replace the K-500 midrange horn/K55 driver with a K510 horn/K69-A driver) Here are the settings that I'm currently using on an ElectroVoice Dx38 active crossover for a center Belle (1982). These are not meant to be taken as gospel, just a starting point for those of you thinking about tri-amping your La Scalas or Belles (La Scalas have very similar characteristics, except for a slightly longer midrange horn). If anyone sees any issues with these settings, please let me know. In order to tri-amp the Belle's drivers, I bypassed the Belle's "AB" passive crossover and connected to each driver using the AB crossover terminal blocks to each amplifier channel. By the way--the difference in sound quality is pretty significant, IMO. Belle Klipsch - EV Dx38 Tri-Amp Settings v1.4 (Final, 8 August 2014 - overhauled settings to simplify PEQs and minimize group delay) IN1: Master EQ1 -- Type Bypass IN1: Master EQ2 -- Type PEQ, f: 460 Hz, Q: 0.7, Gain: -6 dB IN1: Master EQ3 -- Type Bypass IN1: Master EQ4 -- Type Bypass IN1: Master EQ5 -- Type Bypass IN1: Master Delay -- Delay: 1.9ms, Unit: ms IN2: Master EQ1, Type: Bypass IN2: Master EQ2, Type: Bypass IN2: Master EQ3, Type: Bypass IN2: Master EQ4, Type: Bypass IN2:Master Delay -- Delay: 1.9ms, Unit: ms IN1+In2: Master Delay -- Delay: 1.9ms, Unit: ms _ Out1:Routing, Source IN1, Label LO Out1: CHANNEL EQ1,Type: PEQ, f: 180Hz, Q: 2.6, Gain: -11dB Out1: CHANNEL EQ2,Type: PEQ, f: 160Hz, Q: 2.2, Gain: -3dB Out1: CHANNEL EQ3,Type: PEQ, f: 188Hz, Q: 1.0, Gain: -10dB Out1: CHANNEL EQ4,Type: PEQ, f: 66Hz, Q: 22, Gain: -3dB Out1: HIPASS XOVER, Type: thru Out1: LOPASS XOVER, Type: Linkwitz 24 dB, f: 600Hz, Pol: norm Out1: CHANNEL DELAY, Delay: 0.0 us, Unit: us Out1: COMPRESSOR, Thrsh: 0dB, Rat:1/2.0, Attack: 0ms, Rels:100ms Out1: LIMITER, Thrsh: 0dB, Release: 100ms Out1: Level: 0dB, Polarity: Normal _ Out2: Routing, Source IN1, Label MID Out2: CHANNEL EQ1,Type: Bypass Out2: CHANNEL EQ2,Type: PEQ, f: 3.4KHz, Q: 1.3, Gain: 6dB Out2: CHANNEL EQ3,Type: Bypass Out2: CHANNEL EQ4,Type: Bypass Out2::HIPASS XOVER, Type: Linkwitz 24 dB, f: 600Hz, Pol: norm Out2: LOPASS XOVER, Type: Linkwitz 24 dB, f: 4.9KHz, Pol: norm Out2: CHANNEL DELAY, Delay: 979 us, Unit: us Out2: COMPRESSOR, Thrsh: 0dB, Rat:1/2.0, Attack: 0ms, Rels:100ms Out2: LIMITER, Thrsh: 0dB, Release: 100ms Out2: Level: -17.5dB, Polarity: Normal _ Out3: Routing, Source IN1, Label HI Out3: CHANNEL EQ1, BYPASS Out3: CHANNEL EQ2,Type: PEQ, f: 4.9KHz, Q: 4.5, Gain: -9dB Out3: CHANNEL EQ3,Type: PEQ f: 12.4KHz, Q: 6.5, Gain: -8dB Out3: CHANNEL EQ4, BYPASS Out3: HIPASS XOVER, Type: Linkwitz 24 dB, f: 4.9KHz, Pol: norm Out3: LOPASS XOVER, Type: thru Out3: CHANNEL DELAY, Delay: 2167 us, Unit: us Out3: COMPRESSOR, Thrsh: 0dB, Rat:1/2.0, Attack: 0ms, Rels:100ms Out3: LIMITER, Thrsh: 0dB, Release: 100ms Out3: Level: -2.0dB, Polarity: Normal _ (Channel 4 not used for this application - center channel only) _ * EV recommends using the same settings for its low pass/high pass filters.

I find that planar dipole speakers and other floor-standers actually have more issues in terms of room placement, at least IMHO. If you're willing to live with the higher bass distortion, then you can place Klipsch corner horns, e.g., Khorns with enclosed backs, and La Scalas/Belles, anywhere in the room that you wish--and people do. I find that corner placement gives me back a lot of room over floor-standing speakers. I find that a lot of folks here attempt to fix speaker issues with non-linear electronics (e.g., SET amplifiers in particular). I recommend first fixing the issues at their source--by fixing crossover issues (using steep-slope filters) and driver issues (particularly the K77 tweeter) in Klipsch Heritage speakers. I also find that it's cheaper, too. nt. In fact, I believe the opposite to be true - I've never heard a pair of speakers that can reproduce the depth and width of soundstage that I've got now (including Polk SDA monitors). I'd recommend that you try moving your modified Khorns forward out of their corners slightly to achieve a clear space between the left and right speakers (and provide something to fill the space behind them). This technique increased imaging by a great deal in my room. Chris

Nope, that's not it. They are similar to Klipsch in that regard, they need a little juice to jump. What they do best is image and detail. FYI. FYI: My Magnepan MG-IIIAs never imaged like the mains that I have now. The MG-IIIAs have what I would call "transparency" which isn't necessarily something that I desire (personally) in a speaker. I prefer a "seamless and present soundstage" instead. That's probably the biggest reason why the MG-IIIAs are stored away. Another issue is that the the Magnepans really require placement ~6 feet (1.8 meters) away from any wall, and that is a really big problem in terms of usable room space. In my previous home, the room could support this but they ate up our living area, and I was constantly moving them out to listen to them, then moving them back into the corners when I wasn't. Another issue is lack of dynamic response - drums/percussion just never sounded right. Another issue is the inability to toe-in the speakers for greater imaging performance. Toeing-in the Magnepans (and I would think any planar dipole speaker type) apparently causes too much disruption in the dipolar pattern--the soundstage just never sounded right. Chris

You obviously never worked in an Engineering group. Projects don't always go to the "A" team nor do they always get the "A" budget.If those basement engineers or shade-tree mechanics have some extensive engineering of loudspeakers or other related gear, and have done good solid testing to back up their designs and manufacturing, then I'd say that they were as qualified as others who claim to be "professional loudspeaker engineers". PWK learned his trade from hobbying, electrical engineering graduate school (on the side), and geophysical exploration equipment engineering. Richard Heyser was a hobbyist, as was Siegfried Linkwitz, Bruce Edgar and many others. The common denominator: a good education in related engineering disciplines is a prerequisite for investing in someone else's loudspeaker designs. Even then, however, I'd be selective. Chris Edit (2 Jan 2011): The last sentence was meant to say: "The common denominator in this discussion: if you are considering upgrading your speakers with someone else's home-brew add-ons or replacement gear, then I'd certainly look at the person that did that home brew carefully, and consider what you've got based on their background and abilities to understand the physics/engineering, and their ability to test their home brew add-ons or replacement gear for more than 'it sounds better', or even more egregiously--'it looks better'."

A bit harsh, but if you are trying to maximize your investment--in terms of achievement of audio nirvana--then essentially you're right: no one else is going to be the final judge but the owner. If you don't hear any issues then clearly: "Good enough is the enemy of better." []

For subs, I would think that the FR curve and the phase (or group delay) curve, as assembled, are pretty good indicators that they are performing without major issues. The one FR curve that you published looks good, especially since the drivers haven't been broken in yet. Chris

All dynamic drivers must "break in"...and I think that your measurements will change after you exercise them for about 1/2 hour at very low frequency/high amplitude.Or you can just put on the first depth charge scenes from U571 a couple of times... [] Chris []

Me too... [8-)] Good deal! [<)] Chris

Let's see - 120 Hz has a wavelength of about 9.4 feet (in air at ground level and close to room temperature), or a half-wavelength of 4.7 feet. Is that about the height of your microphone off the floor, ceiling or wall?The crossover frequency of 120 Hz sounds high - is there a reason why you are crossing at that point? Chris

The Jubs also play at higher volumes...and only a few short miles up I-35(W) from Round Rock to Arlington. [] Chris

Some of the older Altecs like the Model 17s and 19s (before Spark-o-matic in the 1980s), EV, or horn-loaded JBLs probably sound similar.I would say that any speakers that are horn loaded and where there has been some engineering involved - not just "really good drivers thrown together with a high-Q bass reflex enclosure". I'm sure that the Danley Synergy series and selected movie theater loudspeaker manufacturers (like EAW and similar outfits) sound like Klipschorns, Belles, La Scalas, Cornwalls, and Jubilees. Chris

I think Jubilees (w/TAD 4002s) are the most graceful Klipsch's that I've heard. I don't know if many people know this about these speakers. The sound stage is live and enveloping--even compared to Khorns in a good listening room. Chris

Peace and good will to all...even our tinkerers...[] Chris