Manuel Delaflor

TheEars, first of all, I will try to stop bashing you. It is only that sometimes I really don't want to come to a forum and read some arrogant insulting others. But you don't always insult, so I wil try to remain at a non personal level. Now, first I noted is that you didn't read what I posted. Let's read again: "The very notion about "neutrality" is absurd. To "reproduce what was intended by the enginner", to have "a flat frequency response" and other ways to try to determine what is "neutral" are nothing but poor concepts that isolate a few parameters of the sound and then focus on them as if they were the only worthy think to achieve." Here Im saying that "neutrality" is a really complex subject, and that what is normally understood by it is to have a flat frequency response. My point is that a speaker can have that, and still sound incredible awful and certainly not realistic. Why? Because there are another several factors, which are as important as a flat frequency, that can make a speaker to sound more real. Transient Response, Impulse response, Decay, Impedance, Phase response, Dynamics and several more are involved and are commonly not taken in consideration when the normal "audiophile" looks in to the "neutrality" of a speaker. Got my point now? Lets continue: "So, if TheRears is happy thinking that his Contours are "more neutral speakers" it only shows one thing. How naive and credulous he is regarding the complexity of sound reproduction. He bought what SOME PEOPLE thinks about the subject, nothing else, nothing more." I say and maintain that you think the Countours are "more neutral" based on what SOMEONE ELSE thinks about the subject. If you really want to know better about audiophile terminology, I suggest you do a search over the internet and dedicate sometime to think, instead of repeating what others have said in order to SELL what they make. quote: Originally posted by TheEAR: If you feel Dynaudio Contour 3.3's dont clearly outclass the RF-7's(I own both mind you,do you?)you have nor compared them and this said you have nothing of value to say. As you can see now, I never said the Contours are better speakers or not comparing them to the RF7's quote: Originally posted by TheEAR: There is NOT one audiophile or casual listener that was not very impressed by the quality of the Contour 3.3,NOT ONE.From young to old,all agree the Contour 3.3 bring more music and less coloration. I can't care less about that. I think must of audiophiles are enthusiasts with little knowledge about the physics behind the concepts they use. quote: Originally posted by TheEAR: I like mt RF-7's alot,if I did not I would not have as many R series Klipsch speakers.And also I enjoy my Dynes,for more delicate music demanding more detail and finesse. Precisely concepts like those. I asume that at least you realize that both are completly subjective? quote: Originally posted by TheEAR: And pinnaple face Noriega who do you call naive?I see you take it personal,good.The room is the most important component of all,as the best speakers can soundplain bad in the wrong room and mere heapo speakers can sound quite ok in a room with great acoustics. Who mentioned anything about the room here? who are you trying to impress? quote: Originally posted by TheEAR: And BTW Noriega linear is boring how about the Sennheiser HD600 with a proper headpone amp.Do you call this linearity boring too?You did not make any valid points,just rubish smack talk. Lol, again. I never said something about that Edit: A little more than a year ago, I challenged you and others about this matters: old, old discussion It is obvious that you are still at the same level. This message has been edited by Manuel on 08-28-2002 at 11:43 AM

quote: Originally posted by Dustin B: A tiny sub just can't compete with a big one when deep, accurate and effortless bass is the goal. While the little driver in the little cabinet is eating gobbs of power, compressing and changing critical parameters while it is flapping inches back and forth trying to move enough air, the big driver in a big box is requiring very little power and is well within an easily controlled range of motion with its' parameters stable. Exactly. A well designed big sub will be always better than a small sub, no matter how good it is. There are several reasons for this, for one hand a small sub will always distort more. It also needs electronic circuits (like the Linkwitz transform) in order to get relatively flat to the last octave. The only advantage of a small sub is its size. Wich, by the way, is the mayor comercial advantage of the most bashed manufacturer in the world: Bose. Some people just want smaller electronics in their homes. Oh, one more thing. The MYTH about "fast or slow" divers is just that. A MYTH! A driver must be able to move at certain frequency in order to reproduce that frequency. If it doesn't move that fast, the frequency will be not there. Simply logic, nothing obscure or profound here. The perceived "slowliness" of certain subs is related to their transient responses, not to the "speed" of their driver! And this is matter of design of the box! DAMN Im tired to see how the myths are an important part of the thinking on some self called "experts"!

The results are interesting, in many ways. I have been doing a research on objective evaluation techniques and their correlatives to our subjective feelings. One not so obvious thing I have learned is that frequency response tests are overrated. They do not apport an important amount of information. And of course, the results on the RF7's, which are highly valuated by the ears of most people, are another step in the confirmation of this.

The so called "bright" or even "harsh" sound of Klipsch speakers is commong thinking. We all know that. But I really wonders what does this "bright" sound is? I mean, the must known reference (the frequency response graph) doesn't show that brightness, there are no overemphasized frequencies overall, at least no more than other speakers manufacturer's. So, where it is? My guess is that the perceived "brightness" is simply a more reactive way to reaction to sound, something like the speed of reaction. Does this makes sense?

That's the problem about subjective evaluations, no to mention his obvious lack of knowledge! How pathetic.

The very notion about "neutrality" is absurd. To "reproduce what was intended by the enginner", to have "a flat frequency response" and other ways to try to determine what is "neutral" are nothing but poor concepts that isolate a few parameters of the sound and then focus on them as if they were the only worthy think to achieve. So, if TheRears is happy thinking that his Contours are "more neutral speakers" it only shows one thing. How naive and credulous he is regarding the complexity of sound reproduction. He bought what SOME PEOPLE thinks about the subject, nothing else, nothing more.

Interesting to read that: "... as near ear level as possible. For maximum horizontal dispersion, the horn should be mounted with its long axis vertical" Because I have my Heresy's on their side, in order to have the mid and tweeter at ear level. Why did PK mounted them horizontaly?

WHOA! Thanks!

Justin, I can't find it! I used the search to find any combination of: "scan", "frequency response", "rf7", "rf-7", "justin_tx_16" and all I could think of. After sometime looking in all the results, Im unable to find it. If you can be a bit more specific, which discussion was, a word you used, anything, it will be much easier.

Justin Excellent, I will look for it.

I wonder, what happened to that review? were the numbers wrong? can somebody scan their results or something? I was about to recomend the RF7's to a friend, and doing some research I found this thread...

TheREAR, Im just stating that DIY subs and speakers can be as pretty as comercial ones, nothing more, nothing less. Dustin, TheREARS is nothing but a clown, don't be so angry with him, I bet he does what he can.

Hey TheREAR! take a look at this ones, cute enough, don't you think? http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84432

What about this quality? http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43597 http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43724 This message has been edited by Manuel on 08-18-2002 at 11:53 AM

quote: Originally posted by TheEAR: Over priced for YOU.Not for me or those with the money to buy this subwoofer Snobbish? Arrogant? TheREAR! Come on, no one cares about if you can buy it or not. Let's keep this at subwoofers level. Finishing and quality are two aspects that you can buy from a miriad of manufacturers. Some of them will be overpriced, some will be relatively cheap. This has NOTHING to do with the sound quality or slam of their products. Besides, around 5,000 is not that overpriced, but a Krell sub certainly is, not to mention other megahiend stuff. This message has been edited by Manuel on 08-18-2002 at 11:46 AM

CALM DOWN theRears, calm down. Take it easy. Be cool. This message has been edited by Manuel on 08-17-2002 at 07:07 PM

quote: Originally posted by TVodhanel: So we are in for 2-2.5 hours just moving equipment.This summer I'll have logged in about 800-1000 hours just measuring and rebuilding subs over and over. Lots of work. Still, sounds like fun! I have a scientific background, so I can tell you I know exactly what are you talking about. quote: Originally posted by TVodhanel: No, you shouldn't have too. I just got the new 4.32 version of spectra at soundtechnology though.(1/96th octave resolution baby!---$3500~heavy sigh) So I'm not sure if my capabilities are any different than yours though. Huh, mine have "only" 1/24, but it was cheaper and I still have a lot to learn about all its capabilities. By the way, I have a future proyect regarding sound quality and subjective interpretation, I think this program is a valuable asset. This message has been edited by Manuel on 08-17-2002 at 12:05 PM

Alternatively, Im sure you wish you had found SVS or DIY before spending all that money on your Aerial. No no. I almost forgot. Most people buy thinking that expensiveness is related to quality. Besides, we can't forget snobbism, the Aerial surely sports a lot of that. Two good reasons to have it.

arfz28, Yes, I have to do that. I will try to connect the sub using the speaker inputs, that will resolve my little "problem". About your sub, it seems it will deliver plently bass for you. I can only suggest to tune it a bit higher, at around 20Hz. you will gain a few dB's. But I think Dustin is much more qualified to tell you if your tunning is ok.

quote: Originally posted by arfz28: I need a little help on the size to cut the tube and the lenth of the port. I dont know how to run the farmulas for speaker design. Which driver are you planning to use? How big can you make it without entering in to the WAF problem? What is your goal? punchy and tight bass for music or more deep quaking for movies?

quote: Originally posted by TVodhanel: 2)the THD readout in Spectra won't be affected by 60hz line issues unless you are using a multiple of that number. Use 25hz if you can't use 20hz for example. If you can, try measuring the subwoofer outside ,2meter. Measuring in room,1 meter will ultimately be tough for anyone else to duplicate down the road as each room will affect the performance capabilities differently. But even if you cant go outside...doing some basic THD is more than 99% of internet sub wunderkins do...props! I would eventually do 1/3 to 1/6th octave spacing,and say...2,5,10% THD limits for each Freq. Chart it out and you'll have some really cool info. 4)Somewhere on the SVS site we have a SPECTRA shot shwoing a single Ultra swept at 95,100,105,and 110dBs using a 2m groundplane method. If you can find it(i don't have the time to look)...you'll see the port compression kick in starting around 25hz. Tom, Thanks for the tips on how to measure. I was seriously considering the outside readings, but that was BEFORE I assembled my Tempest Sonosub! this thing is big and heavy and difficult to manage! Anyway, I know my readings will be not really useful for anybody else, still, for me it is an important measure to really qualify my job in trying to get a good sounding sub out of my DIY capabilities. I didn't know that the THD on Spectralab is not affected if I throw some frequency with not traces of a 60Hz armonic. Now, do I need to overcome the peak with higher volume in order to have the right number? In my tests, I read around 110dB at 20Hz at about 10% THD, but I don't want to take that number as final until Im completly sure on how to overcome the 60Hz noise. I will follow your suggestion on doing 1/6 scale testing (avoiding, for now, any 60 multiple). On the graph you mention, I will certainly look for it! This message has been edited by Manuel on 08-16-2002 at 01:37 PM

6" PVC, was the easiest way, also, NOT PORT RESONANCE so far in my tests!!! Thanks for the tip... by the way, thanks for ALL your suggestions and comments! This message has been edited by Manuel on 08-16-2002 at 11:12 AM

Sounds logical. I think I can give it a try. Since I run Heresy speakers on an old tube amplifier I don't have a sub out, so I use the "Tape out" for the sub. It sounds good, but I don't like the need to manually calibrate the sub everytime I change volume!

quote: Originally posted by Dustin B: The other option is to parallel the sub and main speaker connections. Then adjust the variable low pass so it matches up with the roll off of the mains. Tricky to do and doesn't always work that well. Dustin, what about the Ohm's here?

Perfectly normal, I feel the same everytime some new toy is coming!