Super_BQ

I suppose it all depends on how insane you want to be. Do we differentiate between your normal consumer or the rich that have loads of $ to buy what's hip? One thing i've noticed is that in high-end brands (like exotic cars), they don't seem to depreciate much. I think it's fair to say that a classic Ferarri will always hold it's value - just like high-end audio brands like Naim. I don't think the Klipschorn will be in the same league as say the Tannoys. In order for Klipsch to be taken seriously in high-end audio, they really need to make 'quality' stuff that will test the time - simply by having a high resale value. If they used similar drivers (such as TAD, Goto, or strict inhouse productions), and commanded a price tag like these other comparable makes, then the high-end community will take the Klipsch brand more serious.

Hi LarryC I suppose you may be right. Interpreting the serial # coding on mine, it's the last 4 digits that would count. http://www.geocities.com/lelamjade/Klipschorns/KHorn10.jpg That's sad to hear Klipsch making the xover into a PCB. I know in building tube amps, the use of PCB is discouraged. In high end class A transistor amplifiers the preference is still point to point soldering. I also question the quality of our current drivers. The woofer looks like a make out of the Eminence factory and the tweeter made in the Phillipines

Hi Dean, It doesn't appear that your AK4 xover looks the same as my AK4 xover. http://www.geocities.com/lelamjade/Klipschorns/KHorn5.jpg Mine were probably the 1st pair (in walnut) that came off the line in 2002. They may be the same xover but the components on the board have been rearranged. Also the amount of Monster Cable hookup wire bundled together on mine seems unecessary. BQ

I think i've managed to fix the problem. The crossovers are fine. When I opened 1 speaker, I could not believe the mess job the previous(s) owners did. They must of used acid core solder because the wire at the terminals corroded green. This was done to all 3 drivers. The other speaker I noticed the tweeter diaphragm measured 6.8 ohms. I have some new diaphragms which measure around 8.4 ohms. The other speaker tweeter also measured around 8.4 ohms so I replaced it with the proper one. I suppose this is the problem when buying 2nd hand. You have NO IDEA what kind of patch / mod jobs previous owners have done. If only speakers were as collectable as classic cars. Enthusiasts only want things original... BQ

Bob, I own a pair of CW II that I believe were made around 1985/86? Can you please confirm as I have them posted here: http://www.geocities.com/super_bq/Klipsch1.html My problem is it appears that 1 speaker is louder than the other. The mid-range and woofer (I think) sounds about the same for both speakers but on 1 speaker, the tweeter seems to be quite a bit weak. Loss in high freq. response. I do know that lower freq bass sound is harder to identify location (if 1 speaker's woofer is actually less than the other). I've measured the resistance at the speaker terminal posts and both have the same ohm reading. I've not been crafty enough to swap horns around and though, by the age, it could simply be the xover? Please advise. Thanks BQ

Hi Dean, From my experience, i'm pretty sure these are polypropylenes, at least metallised polypropylenes. They're not the expensive kinds like Hovlands Musicaps, Auricaps, or InfiniCaps who's to say that paying a premium for exotic brands makes that much of an improvement in the speaker network? ALK4 has been corrected to AK4 on the website. BQ

Don't rush all at once. Geocities sets a bandwidth limit on my website so if it doesn't show up... pleaes try again later or the next day. http://www.geocities.com/lelamjade/Klipschorns.html I've been listening to these speakers for over 6 hours NON STOP! So for those that think horns are too harse or tiresome to the hears, YOU ARE WRONG. BQ

I paid $5800 from a dealer in Everett WA. That was a long time ago and couldn't believe it took me 18 months before they were shipped. I should say they were $5800 with NO taxes as they were directly exported to New Zealand. Currently still in their original boxes http://www.geocities.com/super_bq/Klipsch1.html I do not know if Klipsch may any changes from 2002 to now on the Klipschorns. The dealer did tell me that at the time of my order, there was only like 2 woodworkers building for the Heritage line. I'm not sure if those 2 were Klipschorn builders from the old school or newly hired to take the job? AK4? I never knew. All I can see is they've used Monster Cable inside. I can't really get a good close up shot of the xover network without taking the speakers out of the box. Next year when the new house is finished... i'll finally get to hear them... Talk about patience. BQ

---------------- On 3/25/2004 4:40:08 PM tgourlie wrote: going back as soon as I get $6,750. Then I'll also have to wait the 16 weeks it takes Klipsch to make and deliver. Has anyone ever put the new k-horns up against a vintage k-horn? I really would like some oak oiled horns, but klipsch now only makes lacquered versions. ---------------- How about waiting for 18 months from order for speakers? They're still in storage in their ORIGINAL box waiting for a new house to finish building (ET next year). I ordered them in 2001 and it's 2004 now. 4 years to wait for speakers what you call "patience"! http://www.geocities.com/super_bq/Klipsch1.html I believe the the ones I have are oiled walnut. News to me how they only make lacquered finishes. Has anyone audition these new Klipschorns???? With new xover, new drivers, i'm sure there MUST be a difference in sound (improvement or not). BQ

I just bought a pair of Cornwall II in the beginnng of the year and personally, I would never dare do any modfication on them. It hurts their resale value dramatically. Also you can be sure the Eminence woofer would not perform the same as the orginal Klipsch woofer. BQ

Interesting thread, I just called the Klpsch parts dept. wanting to order spare parts for my speakers. Not surprisingly, they didn't have any of the new 2002 Klipschorn drivers and diaphrams in stock. For those who are interested, my website link below shows my new 2002 model Klpschorn http://www.geocities.com/super_bq/Klipsch1.html They also informed me on the $900 Klipschorn upgrade. For a company to offer a solution to existing old model Klipschorn owners was pretty good. I can't think of any company today that maintains support for speakers made 20 or 30 years ago. Having said this, the other concern is would you want to butcher your speakers by doing such an upgrade? The analogy is like putting in a new fuel-injected V8 motor into an old classic muscle car made in the 60s and 70s. Definitely wouldn't be original anymore and it would also affect the resale value. For those that don't get to read my website, I can not comment on the sound of my Klpschorns as they are STILL in the original box. Awaiting contruction of a new house. BQ

I'm resurrecting this old post again as I am an owner of a new pair 2002 model Klipschorns (still in the box) as they await for a new home being built. Currently, the dimension of the room is 18 x 22 x 8 (W x L x H in ft) I've read Klipschorns need a fair size room but can anyone confirm the minimum size room, optimal size, and largest size room that Klipschorns will sound reasonably good in? I've seen countless of Klipschorn owners selling their speakers just because they say "don't have the space, room is too small or not idea, blah blah.." Yet, no one has stepped up to say what size room is ideal? I mean, do Klipschorns sound that bad if they're placed in a small room that one has to sell them? BQ

My new 2002 model Klipschorns do indeed use the Monster Cable wiring and terminal lugs. I fully intend to take MORE pictures however, I will have to do so next year when the new house is built. As of now, the Klipschorns stay IN the box. I won't even attempt to take them out of the box because I know they are so big and heavy to move around. As for the drivers, I am certain that they are not the same as the older Klipschorn specs. Even the midrange horn flare looks like some new composite plastic material. Can you consider these new Klipschorns as "New & Improved" ??? For decades, Klipsch had always used the typical lamp cord for internal wiring. I can not verify if the xover is an ALK type. There are far too many variables to say that dropping in a new xover will be it when a new mid-range driver (having different specs than the older Klipschorns) is being used. Most likely, a newly redesigned xover was used. Did you guys catch the extra extended low freq. range of 2 Hz compared to the older models? Sorry i can't show much more photos other than the 4 boxes and serial #s on them. The finish is dark walnut which I find is the most appealing. For future amplification, I intended to use this http://www.geocities.com/lelamjade/2A3.html In future years, I intend to build many more tube amps of low wattage. Anyone else driving Klipschorns with flea power amps like 2A3 tubes? BQ

The reason why tube watts seem to be louder than SS watts is due to the nature of the gain device (the valves vs. transistors). In transistors, the nasty distortion produced is termed 1st order which is most undesirable and highly detectable with the human ear. As mentioned before, the analog waveform is litterally clipped when the transistor is overdriven. In tubes, the type of distortion produced is mainly odd order harmonic distortion. The characteristic of this type of distortion follows a natural state and is not considered undesirable at levels way beyond what is acceptable with SS distortion. So when a tube is overdriven, the analog waveform is somewhat "squashed" rather than outright clipped. The user can drive the tube into distortion levels without noticing a negative affect on the sound quality. In fact, the user may LIKE this type of "smoothness/roughness?" sound in which they are hearing. A better analogy would the sound of a guitar tube amp. Where did this electric distortion sound come from on all those guitar rigs? In all mainstream music we hear the distortion sound from the guitars - yet, when we play that song back on our speakers, how come that sound is not perceived as being annoying? Another important note is speakers DO NOT like clipped distorted signals from the amp. Tweeters can easily be fried without the user noticing any large amount of distortion (what you may perceived as a clean sound may not be in the case for the drivers). BQ

Can someone tell me if Klipsch still deals with replacement diaphrams (voice coil parts) for my Klipsch Corwall II and Chorus I ??? What are the model # of the drivers they use for both TWEETER and MID-RANGE (K-???). I recall that in the past few years that the manufactuer had closed shop making these components? What price range would I be looking at paying as I prefer to keep spare parts of these. Brendon

Part of the main reason why you don't see many DIY Klipschorns is quite simply... the end results are "OK" at best (PERIOD!). I recall visiting a few websites years ago (dead links now) of those who had build their own Klipschorn using the designs from "Speaker Works" or "Speaker Craft" (not 100% sure on the name). One particular person chose not to use actual Klipsch drivers but rather, used EV (which were near identical). Nevertheless, the end result was far from what a Klipschorn should sound like. The choice of drivers is also quite limited ; more limited today than a few years ago as Klipsch no longer has access to supplying SOME of the drivers used in the older Klipschorns/Heritage series. So to go about building a DIY version based on the older Klipschorn design - you really need to source appropriate drivers - let alone the tedious work building the folded bass cabinent. As for modelling a DIY project based on the new 2002 series Klipschorns - I doubt you will find anyone willing to dismantle such speaker ; mine are in transist and intend to keep them original as is. As mentioned before, there really isn't any cost savings to building your own. In fact, I would not be surprise if it would cost you MORE than to buy a good used set elsewhere. Years ago I was on the same track as you - wanting to build my own ; but after some research... it was much better to buy new.

Thank you all for the input. I'm pretty sure I will not be disappointed with the Cornwall II. Nowadays it's so hard to find a good sounding speaker no matter if it cost over $10,000usd new or not. I recently auditioned a complete Naim system (SL-2, NAP-500, CDX, new pre-amp, and their Naim rack system) which sold for over $50,000usd - i was completely disgusted with the flat sound that I wondered who buys such a setup? BQ

I'm looking at buying a pair of used Cornwall II that appear to be in reasonable condition and need to know what they are worth $$? Like the Klipschorns, was there a period of time where Klipsch made bad runs (changes in the xover / drivers) to the Cornwall II ? Which line of speakers do the Cornwall II sound closest to? (comparable freq. repsonse?) I do own a pair of the Chorus which probably just came out after Klipsch discontinued the Cornwalls. I can not audition the speakers so if I do buy the speakers, I would be doing so blindly. The particular set will be picked up by a friend of mine until the time I arrive back to pick them up at his place. Awaiting for your comments.

My dealer has e-mailed saying they've shipped my pair of new Klipschorns. He will let me know when they arrive at the store. Unfortunately, they are destined to be shipped to New Zealand where I am now - so roughly, maybe 2 months time before I get to hear them speak. I've been patiently waiting and waiting. To give you an idea how long, it's been well over 18 months. Yes I am patient because simply there are no other makes that are considered a FULLY horn loaded loudspeaker. Don't quote me on this but I think there is only ONE person building the Heritage line. Months ago they use to have 2 people building them but that person has left. So my guess, it won't be long before Klipsch discontinues the whole Heritage line once that 1 worker leaves. I know they can always train new people to build them but there's nothing like an experienced builder as they make fewer or no mistakes. Don't forget, re-training is a BIG cost in business and it's not like ANY wood-worker would have the skills to build folded horn enclosures. Of the Klipschorns that have been produced in 2002 - i doubt there is more than a few sets ever shipped out? If it's to be the last, they will certainly be collectors' items. I have read about some changes in the xover and driver design on the new Klipschorns - however, I sometimes think that these changes were only made to suit the NEW type of driver being used. Will it sound like the old Klipschorns? (somehow, I doubt it will although the speaker itself has gone through many changes over the past 40 years). This is nothing new... Klipschorns have been fitted with different xovers and drivers in the past. So it's not so easy to go on EBay and buy that used pair of Klipschorn. When they arrive - i'll give it a serious break-in and evaluation. BQ

Dean, Maybe you should try an audition between RF-7 and Klipschorns side by side in the same room. Frequency response for both speakers are day and night different. Not to mention the RF-7 does not use a fully horn loaded woofer enclosure. Belle's themselves don't even sound the same as Klipschorns - they are a bit weak in bass at the low end compared to the corner placement Klipschorns. I'm not going by word of mouth but rather, speak by experience and i've made many auditions with the RF-7. Quite frankly, they don't have the same sound as the Heritage line of speakers - I thought going to a 2 way dual woofer system is a step back and a cheap way of making speakers. They use differnt compression drivers, different xovers, and drivers. I'm sick of companies trying to "defy the laws of physics" by producing smaller speakers that claim to be as loud and dynamic as much large speakers. Retailers need to understand that by going to a smaller enclosure with smaller drivers = lower efficiency. Consumers need to understand the difference in SPL between a 500 watt amp and a 1000 watt amp is ONLY a 3dB increase! (but the price tag is 50 - 100% more) I'm not saying the RF series are inefficient, just that when you try to make things say more living room friendly (tiny and cute?), there will be great concessions to sound quality and performance. The same goes with all these new Class D amps vs. Class A. BQ

Personally I think car audio during the mid 80s to the early 90s was far superior than your typical consumer car audio gear. The whole scene has changed and changes in technology hasn't done much good in car audio today. High SPL and efficiency is the focus nowadays. Class D amps are the norm and IMHO don't even come close to the sound quality of a true Class A amp. Those who lived in the 80s and early 90s would know what i'm talking about. Harman Kardon CA-260, Alpine 7909 head cd unit. I remember guys like Richard Clark doing their own modifications to their 7909 to run 8+ volt pre-out back then. The 7909 was a straight no nonsense cd player. What we see today is fancy disco light displays... it's no wonder these head units sound awful. I'm sad to hear that there simply isn't any market for high-end sound quality in car audio. The Sony ES line has been discontinued which is a shame. Stuff like copper chassis and balanced circuits no longer exist in car audio like they did decades ago Not to mention the quality control is out the door - find me something that is still made in Japan??? Keep in mind that what you hear in a car audio showrooms is by no means a good measure of how the stereo would sound like in your car (room acoustics don't match to the car's interior). See if you can find an IASCA or sound off competition and listen to as many cars as you can - noting only the ones you liked best in sound and use that as a measuring stick to building your car stereo. BQ

I'm glad you asked this question because in consumer audio, "word clock" does NOT exist. Even the most expensive high end digital gear does not incorporate it. Why? Well I myself do not know why. In pro gear, running long lenghts of cable is not that simple. Some people think it's easy to run a 40 foot coax or Toslink cable from one end of the studio to the other end in another room. You can do it, but without any word clock interfacing, you are asking for a whole truck load of "jitter" problems. Take this the next step, how about in concert applications where the cable lengths can run 10 times that? Often enough, this amazes me when looking at highend consumer audio. They do ALL sorts of funny things such has using external outboard DACs and separate CD transports in order to achieve better sound. I don't know why some of the circuits used in pro-audio are not incorporated in consumer audio? (ie. most DACs are fully balanced from the chip but end up being "single ended" rca at the end). They work so hard in trying to minimize jitter in the digital signal when all they have to do is incoporate "word clock". IMHO, they are on the wrong track. Or maybe they are selling a particular sound quality which suposely "sounds good"? rather than reproducing sounds as accurately as possible - the way the studio engineers had intended it to be. Word clock cables are nothing special. They use standard BNC connectors (same as old PC network coax cables) and do not have to cost $50 for a 3 ft. cable. Remember, we are talking digital transmissions where cables isn't as picky as cables are on an analog setup. BQ

Fancy how we can talk about prices for a new pair of Klipschorns. The problem is we do not know WHEN Klipsch gets their B*TT in gear and start building them??? I've been waiting for close to 16 months on a new pair of Klipschorns from an authorized dealer. Everytime I check the date, it keeps getting bumped ahead another month or so. IMHO what BobG has replied "We care.. blah blah" doesn't ring clear in my books. Maybe they're too busy flogging the RF series which are not even nearly as close to the performance of the Heritage line of speakers. (price usually dictates that difference). BQ

I'm kinda suprised no one has mentioned about running full balanced sources? If you want better CD players, consumer audio doesn't offer much choice. Look for pro-gear like they use in the recording studios. They are not cheap but they are well worth the $$ as they use better components (ie. Jensen audio transformers, polypropylene caps, etc.) I should add that sound quality is based on preference. However from a sound engineer's point of view, the overall goal is to have music reproduced as accurately as possible. When you enter vinyl records into the equation - you are comparing apples and oranges as it's based on a "preference in sound" rather than "accuracy in sound". So BQ

quote: I have read that burning at too fast a speed can result in errors in the disk , I STRONGLY recommend reading this site below: http://www.emedialive.com/EM2000/starrett5.html In short it turns out that even the fastest CDR writers produce a better copy than the original Audio CD. The original poster asked about sound quality differences between a stand-alone vs. PC writers. For the masses most people people won't hear the difference in sound quality. But for those with super high-end stereo setups, the different is very noticeable between which format the audio CDs are copied. A main feature what you want in a PC CD Writer is the ability for it to do DAO (Disc-at-once) writing which you prepare ALL your audio tracks on your computer's hard drive 1st - and the CD writing software writes the WHOLE disc in ONE session (from beginning to end). The problem with consumer stand alone cd writers is they write in a mode called TAO (Track-at-Once). which means it records the cd ONE SONG AT AT TIME. You lose the ablility to customize the pause length between in song (fixed at 2 second gaps). Worse of all, when adding the next song to burn, the laser has to re-align where it left off and restart the burn process. It's this part where the laser resume causes that slight GLITCH or POP sound that you home audio CD player will pick up (at high volume). Not all PC CD Writers are the same. I have not seen any software that uses the DIGITAL data stream of an audio CD (mostly because most PC cd-roms don't have a digital out interface THAT IS UTILIZED in the computer - interfaced with the sofware). Nevertheless, this is where you get the loss in sound quality as the digital does NOT stay in digital form. Rather it gets converted to a file format (.WAV) and when the cd writing software writes it to the blank CD - then it goes through another conversion process. But at the end of the day, you're probably not going to hear the difference in sound quality compared to a professional stand alone cd writer that writes in from digital to digital (no ADC or DAC in the chain). If you are really concerned about the new copy protection used on audio cds. Then I would recommend buying a PROFESSIONAL stand alone cd writer. Such as the HHB CDR850. http://www.geocities.com/super_bq/HHB.html The unit features NO SCMS and is fully balanced. For only a $1000usd it's a steal. It will write on any blank cd you can feed it. For PC software, i recommend using Exact Audio Copier (shareware last I remember) to copy audio CDs. BQ ------------------ High-end audio = a way to brainwash you!