Klipschguy

Greetings Russ. I'm glad you like the mod. The Heresy I tweeters are definitely too bright in their stock configuration. If you find the "tap 3 to tap 2" mod is overattenuating your highs (really depends on the room) you can also try the 12dB/octave filter described in this thread. The 12dB/octave keeps the original crossover point, leaves the high highs unmolested, and greatly attenates the lower highs because of the steeper slope at the crossover frequency, i.e. down 12dB at 3000hz instead of 6dB, down 24dB at 1500hz instead of 12dB, etc. The sreaming highs in the Heresy seem to mostly concentrated in the lower highs. Note: the Cornwalls use a 12dB/octave (not 6dB/octave) for their identical tweeters, so the mod makes the Heresy crossover design like the Cornwall's. Whichever mod is used, moving the tap, or using a 12dB filter, they both sound to my ears much better than the stock configuration and MUCH MORE like my Cornwalls - which I have been enjoying for years. Also, with the tap mod, the midrange uses tap 2, so the tweeter can be hooked up with the appropriate midrange lead since they will both share tap 2. Simple mods, big results. KG This message has been edited by Klipschguy on 07-10-2001 at 04:57 PM

Can't complain. Thanks for asking. KG

Very informative thread. I'll have to print a copy for my file.

djk, You have been truly blessed. KG

I grew up listening to a big ole pair of Bozak B302's from the late fifties coupled to a Heathkit AR-15 receiver. I still got the Bozak's and they really do have a beautiful, mellow tone. KG

Olaf, Make sure you audition any potential purchases with your RF-3 speakers for compatibility's sake. I know how you feel when a piece of equipment fails to meet your expectations. Probably the best thing to do is buy something else and get rid of the offending piece. That way you don't have to think about it anymore. In my case - what Carver!? KG

Yeah, I've listened to a lot of Cerwin Vegas too. CV sound better than a lot of speakers out there. The weakest link is probably their midranges, which is where Klipsch excels. The midrange squawker is largly responsible for the "Klipsch sound." KG

Yeah, thanks Ray. I agree with your assessment of JH. But, please don't misunderstand. I don't think JH was always right, but I do admire his work. A lot of things matter in audio and JH recognized that (as do I), but you really had to love it when he would stand up and yell "the Emporer has no clothes" when everyone else was ooing and awwing. Personally, I try to keep every link in my audio system as strong as possible, yes, even the speaker cables, because I think the minutia adds up to better sound. But I try to keep it in perspective. Klipschguy

Hello Pkeller, I know the Cornwalls used to have vertical horn arrangement, so your suggestion makes sense. The problem is my Heresys are on the floor and I do not want to lay them on their sides, especially on rough textured mexican tile. Klipschguy

Yeah, I was always a little leary myself. I also noticed they never ever said that a pair of speakers "sounded bad." JT was defintitely The Man. He was controversial and went into the face of a lot of audiophile dogma. I think there were some companies out there that wanted to put a muzzle on him. I wonder if he's posting on this bulletin board incognito. You know he likes big Klipsch. Klipschguy

Definitive Technology probably says that so you will give the speakers a chance and not rush to return them. After 20-40h of listening, you begin to get used to the sound of a pair of speakers and are more likely to keep them. Hey, does anybody else remember the double blind tests with different audio components done by Julian Hirsch of Stereo Review some years back. I would love to have copies of those. One test he did was the double blind speaker cable comparison - NONE of the "golden ears elite audiophiles" could tell a diference between 16 ga zip cord and esoteric cables when the test was blind. However, when THEY KNEW what they were listening to, they said things about the expensive cables like "full bouquet", "pinpoint soundstage", "tighter bass", blah, blah, blah. Conversely, about the zip cord they said "muddy bass", "lack of coherencey", "poor soundstage", blah, blah, blah. Ole Julian nailed them between the eyes. Julian nailed them again when comparing different esoteric tube and solid state amplifiers. Even a 45 watt/channel Pioneer receiver was included in the line up. Man did those audiophiles rag on the Pioneer when they knew what they were listening to. And they laid it on thick about the Conrad-Johnson, which was considered "the stuff" back then. Again, when blind, NO DIFFERENCE. What's even more funny is that even though there was no statistical difference between perveived sound of the various amps, the Pioneer seemed to get the highest marks when giving a cursory look at the raw data. Several of the guys picked it as the Conrad-Johnson. (Maybe these guys had wax in their ears!?) I wish somebody out there would do one of Julian Hirsch's controlled double blind studies with breaking in speakers. I'd bet $1000 of my dollars against $10 of somebody elses dollars there would be no statistical difference. Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox and turn the mic over to someone else so we can get another provocative opinion - just a couple more things. No finger pointing here. I am guilty of audiophile talk too. I do believe I can hear differences between amps and stuff. But I always understand that a double blind test would likely put me to shame (surely not MY ears). As an aside, have you ever noticed that the harder you work/spend on a tweak, the better it sounds? One bet I would take. I bet I could tell the difference between a pair of K-horns and a pair of Bose 901's in a double blind test. PWK knew what mattered - THE SPEAKERS. Klipschguy This message has been edited by Klipschguy on 06-23-2001 at 02:49 PM

Sweet! How about a little description for inquiring minds. Klipschguy

Your problem may be the woofers bottoming out where the woofer's voice coil is smacking against the back of the rear magnet plate. Woofer bottoming is usually caused by trying to squeeze too much bass out of a woofer, especially a small one. Bass is created by moving air. More bass = more air that needs to be moved. Trying to get bone jarring bass out of a small woofer is like fanning yourself with guitar pick. To figure out if it's your woofers bottoming, roll the bass back when listening to a recording which is giving the "snapping sound." If the noise stops, it's likely woofer bottoming - get a sub, or turn down the bass. If the noise is intrinsic to the recording, you should hear the snapping at most output levels, and probably through headphones. I always grab a pair of headphones to figure out if its the recording or one of the drivers. Hope this helps. Klipschguy

Clipping is what results when an amplifier runs out of power and its waves are "clipped off" as they try to reach beyond the rated output of the amp - distortion results. As an illustration, if you picture the eletrical energy that comes out of the amp and goes to your speakers as waves kind of like an ocean, you can get a pretty good picture of what happens when clipping occurs. The waves of electical energy that come out of the amp increase in amplitude, or "get bigger" as the volume is increased, kind of like bigger and bigger waves on the ocean. Each amp has a power rating which tells just how big these waves can get before their tops start getting "clipped off." Picture ocean waves with a ceiling suspended at some given height. The ceiling represents the amp power at clipping. If the waves get too big, they will run out of room and the smooth wave top will be lost when they hit the ceiling. An amp does the same thing, only with electical waves. The amp wants to make big, smooth waves, but when overdriven, they run into the ceiling, and clip - the smooth wave tops are not produced = distortion. Clipping an amplifier produces all kinds of distortion WAAAY beyond the rated distortion of the amplifier. The amp sends these distorted signals to the speakers which can cook any one of the drivers, but it's usually the tweeter, with its delicate voice coil, which suffers burnout. It does doesn't take a big amp either. A lower powered amp, when clipping hard, can easily cook a tweeter. Clipping can be heard as obvious distortion when clipping big-time (sounds raspy and "tizzy"). Lesser clipping sounds more like there is no dynamic range in the music - its all loud (there is much less difference between the loud and soft passages than is intrinsic to the recording). Call it a "dynamic compression" sound. FYI: crappy speakers can also undergo dynamic compression as the voice coils heat up and max excursions are reach - even when the amp is not clipping (sorry to confuse matters a bit). The amp is usually not damaged during mild to moderate clipping, but can be if a cooked voice coil causes a shorted load to act on the amp. Also, if an amp is run into the red zone for too long, the amp can overheat, which may damage it. Moral: have plenty of power, keep it clean, and use efficient speakers - especially if you like it loud. Anybody else feel free to chip in. Klipschguy This message has been edited by Klipschguy on 06-22-2001 at 07:04 PM

I do not know how the Heresy I and II's compare. I would think they are both pretty similar. I think you would be happy with either one. Maybe somebody else has compared the two side by side. I love mine. By the way... I have done another mod to my Heresy I's. Although my earlier mod gave the speakers a lot better overall tonal balance (IMHO), a couple of the previous posts were right; the upper highs were a little too attenuated. They sounded a lot more like my Cornwalls with the mod, but the upper highs were just not quite there. So I took another whack at it. This time I returned the tweeter lead back to its original tap 3 position on the T2A and replaced the 2uF tweeter cap (6dB/octave) with a 12dB/octave set up, thus rolling off the lower, harsh treble while preserving all of the upper highs. I used a 1.4uF cap in series with the negative tweeter lead (just like the original 2uF cap) and then used a .18 Solen Heptalitz inductor across the postive and negative leads of the tweeter. The choke and cap make up the 12dB/octave filter - simple, yet elegant. The 12dB/octave filter was mounted to its own little board and then screwed to the open space on the existing Klipsch crossover board. The original 2uF cap was left on the board - its just unhooked. The only thing which can't be perfectly reversed back to original is the two small screw holes in the board - no big deal. The sound is quite good and gave me the result I was searching for. The overall balance of the speaker is much improved over the original. Note: the Cornwall uses a 12dB/octave filter in it's tweeter section. My Heresy networks now use the same crossover configuration as my Cornwall I's (although the values are different, as they should be). I waited a while to post about this mod to see how I liked it. Its been a couple of months now and I really like it. No more Heresy mods for me. Klipschguy

Olaf, Quality control is quite good with Yamaha, but like anything else you can end up with a lemon. I bet you have a leaking cap or something causing your harshness. What you're describing sounds like my old Carver (which I gave away). Man, it was harsh with NO bass. It was marginally okay with my Cornwalls, but unlistenable with my Heresys - the treble would singe the hairs on your head. I really think the problem with the Carver was its output capacitors were probably leaking a little DC voltage after years of use - resulting in terrible sound. But I don't think the problem was/is intrinsic to Carver equipment. What I'm trying to say is it could happen with any brand and cause them to get a bad rap. I know your receiver is not old, but there could still be a problem. I would call Yamaha and demand/request a replacement. I would be reluctant for them to "fix it". Give them the "loyal customer for years routine." I have been into Audio for over 25 years and heard a lot of good equipment and I must say the Yamaha RX-596 has been quite sweet and exceeded my expectations - which is quite rare in this exacting, detail oriented person. Keep us posted. Klipschguy This message has been edited by Klipschguy on 06-22-2001 at 11:10 AM

Elliot, Typically die-hard Klipsch fans tend to buy houses to accommodate their Klipsch speakers (especially K-horns), not vice versa. However, you can't just say "Honey, this room just doesn't cut it when it comes to ideal Klipsch speaker placement, so we need a new house." It needs to go something like "if we were to buy a bigger/different house, you could have that sewing room you've always wanted. I've been thinking about it a lot lately, and I just want you to be happy..." I'm obviously tongue in cheek here, but when I bought my past two houses, I made darn sure they had good corners and room for my Cornwalls. (Anybody else do something similar?) I hope this helps (somehow I don't think it will). Klipschguy

STUPID question. Forgive my ignorance, but what does "LOL" stand for? I keep seeing this anacronym on this bulletin board. This message has been edited by Klipschguy on 06-20-2001 at 05:21 PM

I had the opposite experience with the Yamaha RX-596 as Olaf did. My really sounds sweet (I've had a lot a listening experience with good equipment, including tubes). Let your own ears decide. Do a search on this site for Denon, Yamaha, and others to gather more opinions before you decide. Klipsch speakers are easy to drive, so you do not need something real esoteric to get exceptional sound. Klipschguy

Another two channel fan here. Music sounds great, only two speakers (Cornwalls) in the room, TV and movies sound fine (I'm not a big TV or movie fan anyway). Klispchguy

Olaf, That's strange your RX-596 sounds bad. There must be speaker preferences for equipment. My Yamaha RX-596 (FYI, mine has a rated damping factor of 240+) sounds outstanding with my Cornwalls. My old Carver sounded so harsh and bad that I gave it away. For a while I was also using a push-pull tube amplifier with my Cornwalls that sounded quite good indeed, but could not match the deep, controlled bass and smooth mids and highs of the Yamaha. You put on a Diana Krall CD with my system, give it a couple watts, close your eyes, and you'll be tranported to a secluded piano bar with a beautiful band playing - musical all the way. Anyway, if the Onkyo sounds best with your speakers, by all means stick with it. Same for you Carver fans out there. Klipschguy

Pete, I wouldn't recommend removing the horn lenses on your K77's. You might separate and destroy the voice coils. I replaced the diaphragms in my brother's blown alnico K77's and when I CAREFULLY separated the lens and magnets, both voice coils separated (it didn't matter in this case since I was replacing the diaphragms anyway. FYI, the new diaphragms work beautifully). One other thing. I've thought about front mounting my tweeters too. But I am a little concerned/curious about the time delay caused by not having the drivers in the same plane. Some manufacturers tilt their speakers back to compensate when using said mounting configuration. Really, the rear mounted tweeters in my Cornwalls seem to have good dispersion - so I have no major complaints (if it ain't broke, don't fix it!?) Klipschguy This message has been edited by Klipschguy on 06-07-2001 at 11:46 AM

J!, I see you finally got a pair of Cornwalls. How do you like them? How do they compare to your Heresys? Welcome to the club. Man, I love my Cornwalls. Klipschguy

An excellent way to make sure your speakers are in phase with each other (sometimes the red and black input leads on the back of the speakers are wrong) is to place each speaker face-to-face about two inches apart. If the phase is correct, you will definitely hear bass with appropriate music (hint: don't use harpsichord music for the test). If the phasing is wrong, you will hear almost no bass due to the destructive interference created by the out of phase drivers. I always check any pair of speakers I aquire with this test to insure I'm in phase. You never know, especially with used speakers, somebody may have been tweaking and inadvertantly reversed the input leads, or possibly even an error at the factory. Klipschguy

I just cranked my Yamaha RX-596 to max volume with no source. When I put my ear against my K-77 horn tweeter, I heard NO hiss or noise - just dead silence. I've never noticed any hiss or noise from this unit. The problem may not be your unit. It could be some kind of AC line problem.