USparc

moon, That is a common problem (setting the surrounds to loud) See also my reply on your topic in the technical questions forum: http://216.37.9.58/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002092.html on setting the level of your speakers. ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP SubW: KSW-12

Moon, We can compare the settings on our receivers if you go THX. You know by now (from the replies) that the volume level on your receiver is a relative indication. If we take all the same reference point we can compare our level settings as THX does. In most manuals of THX receivers this is explained. Here it goes: Go to the level settings of your receiver. Make sure that the receivers level is at 0dB. Play the pink noise on your receiver. With an SPL meter you have to set all your speakers at 75dB. (Yes with klipsch you have to go under the 0dB, mine are -10dB for the fronts). The 0dB is the THX reference. If you set your receiver at 0dB you are watching the move at THX reference level. Be careful!! It is damn loud!! To test if your receiver can handle this you can do the following. I know you have the RF-7 so you probably have set them to large on your receiver. Play a movie at 0dB on your receiver. Now set all your speakers to SMALL on your receiver. Cross-over at 80Hz(THX). So all below will be taken care of by the subwoofer!! Your receiver has to put out less power now. Play the movie again and compare. Are the lower frequencies better reproduced?? Is the sound better defined?? (The overall sound can be better now your receiver is not stressed by the lower part) You can also test this by connecting a powerful amp(like krell, rotel) to your receiver. Then you will know if your RF-7 will benefit the extra power. I think TheEAR can verify this one!! ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP SubW: KSW-12

quote: Originally posted by KAiN64: Alright people, I have chosen to go with the 38" Direct View 4:3 TV that supports progressive scan. It is a Sony KV-ES38M91. The reason I chose 4:3 is because I do a lot of console gaming and most games are not 16:9. Secondly, in my opinion, 16:9 material on a 4:3 TV is not as bad as 4:3 material on a 16:9 TV, get it? right on!! This way, I get best of both worlds. good choice!! With 4:3 you have it all (16:9 and 2.35:1) Just some minor horizontal bands. ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP SubW: KSW-12

Yep, he went with the Marantz!!! quote:"The marantz is far better then the Denon. The music is more natural." (He has the B&W Nautilus 803) btw. The fan doesn't run even when it gets warmer.

quote: Originally posted by PointSource: I have the RF-3 II's with a KSW-12 and it sounds amazing..... got that right!! quote: Originally posted by PointSource: I love the RF-3 II's, just amazing speakers IMO........ ME TO ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP SubW: KSW-12

quote: Originally posted by talktoKeith: Do speakers really sound better bi-wired? Yes, probably they do. It al depends on the crossover of the speaker. Something like this can happen: To current comming back from the woofer can have some influence on the network of the Tweeter. If you bi-wire the current from the woofer has to go back to the amplifier which has a much lower impedance. It is unlikely that the current goes back in the wire of the HF. The current for HF and LF takes a different path seen from the amp, so less influences. Or better said "One of the problems with a standard crossover and a single-wire connection is that low frequency signals tend to swamp the more delicate treble stuff, especially in the return (or negative) connection back to the amp. By separating the signal all the way back to the amp's output stage, using two runs of cable or a purpose made four-core biwire cable, these effects can be reduced." See also: http://www.audioquest.com/theory/theory5.html (do a search on Biwiring) quote: Originally posted by talktoKeith: Is there a difference in cheap speaker wire and that expensive wire thet sell off the spool at Home Depot? Probably, it is al marketing. FTP CAT 5 cable ~ kimber 4TC cable, in construction and sound. I assume you all know the price diff!!! ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP SubW: KSW-12

quote: Originally posted by m00n: This is kind of the reason I hesitated to recommend these speakers to skonopa. I personally think it was worth the money. He may not. And sounds like you definitly don't think it would be. I do know it for the RF-5 for certain, not for the RF-7's. But indeed like JLL said:<< i plan on getting the 7's to replace my 3's and i just can't see how it can sound any better, i guess i am just in for a big surprise>> Maybe I have to listen to them (or better not.. For the price (over the RF-3's) they have to be ... . Indeed that is just a personal issue. quote: Originally posted by m00n: As long as your happy with what you have. Thats what counts right? Thats what you all have taught me. right on, enjoy

Hipnotic_Tranz, how do you like your pioneer and how is your PC connected to it (as DVD player). ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP SubW: KSW-12

very nice. Nice homepage!! Have still to ask: which rack is the new one. The one on the first or the second picture?? They look both very clean. I guess the first picture No wires to see!! ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP SubW: KSW-12

Sorry, have to react on this. (not planning to upgrade to RF-7) Had the same feeling about RF-3's. Not flat sounding, but not so natural sounding with music. Playing with different cables was the trick. Yes, FTP cat-5. Not only external, but also internal. Happy with my RF-3's now. (I know why klipsch upgraded the RF-3's with the monster wire) But still with a plus (market) price of $50 not only for the monster wire (feet, foam material, logo,...) you can not expect wonders (of that monster wire). But the RF-7 would be better. I hope they are in respect of their price.(didn't here them yet) So comparing RF-7 and RF-3 ??? I can buy easily 3 pair of RF-3's with the price of 1 pair RF-7's!!! That wallet have to be really stretchy!! But I did hear the RF-5's and didn't here much of a difference that could justify the more than double price tag compaired to my RF-3's. Just want to say that the RF-3's can be almost(have to be careful here) easily tweaked up to the bigger brothers with less money. Give them some respect. m00n, still my Congrats. Enjoy your reference 7 system. Have to ask (like JLL with the placement issue): Did you change nothing else than the speakers?? Like speaker wire??? Are the RF-7's on the same spot?? The RF-7's probably do sound better, just to be sure that nothing else is responsible for the "improved" sound. ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP SubW: KSW-12

Couldnt help myself and bought it. rennocneb, your right on that, but I don't think you can damage the KSW-12 as I noticed a fuse on the connection pannel. boa, that was also an issue. The KSW-12 wakes-up very quick. Receiver output 0dB adjusted. Oh, have to adjust my signature. ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP

yes, a soft cloth will do it. Don't be scared to damage them. You have to really poke them hard to damage them. Just wiping it won't scratch them. ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP

Are the RF-7 not big enough?? I 'm already happy with the RF-3's. I find them already big. Didn't see the RF-7 yet (in reality). ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP

Larry, I'm testing a KSW-12 to add to my 4 RF-3's. The best results are reached when placing the sub in a corner on the other side of the room (not on the wall of the front speakers (experimental)).Try different locations according to the results below. To set the right volume: Just play some 2 channel music. Pay attention to - the room response. Don't let it get boomy. - make sure you can't localize the sub. (from the sweet spot stand up, close your eyes and keep them closed. spin around (until you feel drunk). If you can now easily locate the sub then either the level is to high or your cut-off frequency is not 80Hz or below. Maybe you have to try another place for the sub. The level on my KSW-12 is now on 6.(on the receiver 0db) I should test this method against an SPL meter!! I even use the sub for stereo now. It extends the RF-3's very nicely. Dono yet if I will keep it?? ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP

No No not the reference series. No No not any klipsch is ugly. The following speakers are huge and ugly: http://www.focal-jmlab.fr/gb/home/utopia/index.htm and also the baltic II from cabasse : http://www.cabasse.com/english/artis2/baltic.htm and others (but definitly not klipsch) (just personal tastes) About the grills: The grills on my RF-3's are the most solid one's I have seen. The mesh structure is a good design. I don't understand how one can complain about those grills?? Maybe about the feet, but then again I don't use them. ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP

Indeed very Very VEry VERy VERY nice!!!! couldn't stop to see all the pictures. This is something I will consider when I have my own house. ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP

John, The FTP cat5 is the best upgrade I ever did!!! Previous I had the cobra 2.5 from monitor. A friend of my let me use his kimber 4TC cables (2x2m), just for the fun. If I had to biwire all my speaker with that cable I could build up a new HT. But the cable impressed me so hard that the monitor cable had to go. So I had to find something close to the kimber. The cheapest was to go with cat5 cable. In short, the FTP cat5 cable matches the kimber very well. The FTP cat5 is a bit brighter and even more dynamical. Even my RF-3's and RC-3 have the FTP cat5 as internal wire!!

A friend of me wants to buy one of those (European models). Now he has the Denon 5800 (European model). Has anyone compared them? Any opinions are welcome. Special attention should be given to - the layout, build quality (SR-9200) - and even more the sound quality - the fan (does it run and noise)(SR-9200) I put the "(SR-9200)" because I know that the layout isn't that what it is like in the Denon, but the sound would be better then the Denon. Also the fan issue is for the SR-9200 because the fans in the Denon doesnt run. ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP

thx. About the link: remove the ")" at the end. ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP

The impedance selector on amps is there mostly to protect the amp. The builders of the amp know that when 4Ohm speakers or 2 8Ohm speakers in parallel are used the amp would be stressed. To prevent that they implement a switch that limit the output of the transfo. ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP

or pioneer. The best amp(MOSFET) for klipsch RF-3's out of the denon's, the onkyo's, sony's. Before the pioneer I had the onkyo 676, not bad but a bit to bright,cold. The denon's and sony's have problems with the sensitvity of the speakers --> volume control, hiss,... ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP

I own 4 RF-3's and replaced the internal wires. So I know their construction and how they look inside. The RF-3's are "rock" solid: The drivers on it's own are very nice and solid with very serious magnets. The MDF-pannels have a good thickness. Even the motorboard is extra dense MDF. I noticed it when unscrewing the drivers. Really tight. Don't see any chance to see hanging a driver out of its cabinet one day!!! The cabinet construction looks solid and everything is glued very good. The damping material can be indeed attached a bit better what I did myself. Adding some more internal construction like the b&w matrix would indeed be better, but at what price. Also the internal wires could be better, but again ... Changed them with FTP cat 5 cable. crash827 mentioned that $40 in cost = $500 in price. That is a bit extreem, but true. If I count the hours spent on tweaking my RF-3's then they are more then $2000. RF-3 takes about 80" of internal wire. If you would replace it with kimber cable of 10$/ft --> +$66. What would the market price be .... I paid my RF-3 $700/pair. Could I expect more from those speakers. Hell no. I only can get them better by tweaking. That is my reaction on this quality issue of the reference series of klipsch. But what about the RF-7 and RF-5. There is indeed a gap in price between my RF-3's : RF-3: $800 RF-5: $1500 RF-7: $2200 Ok, the RF-7 is bigger and uses larger drivers. But the RF-5 is almost the same as the RF-3. So tweaks (internal wires, damping material,...) cost $. If you want to save $, do them yourself. But indeed, I understand that you would not expect to tweak on a $2200 priced speaker!!! Don't worry, be happy (with your klipsch 's) ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP

Yep, I knew this would happen. For HF you have to move the horn to the end and the ### after the **** and the @@@ after the ====. For LF move all vertical components after the ++++. Hope this is clear?? ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP

This is something I would have done after changing the internal wires, but it is hard to figure out the components in the network. Changing the internal wires to FTP cat 5 cables is already a big succes. For HF: + ----++++----****----====------------ / / / # @ # @ horn # @ / / / - ------------------------------------ ++++: 10w 2Ohm J ****: 4,5 J 100V MER CH ###: ?? (solenoid) @@@: same as ### ??? ====: ? For LF + -----++++---------------------------- / / / # # W1 W2 # / / / - ------------------------------------- ++++ : solenoide with ferith core ###: 18.0J 100W MET CH That is what I could figure out when changing the internal wires. Who can (will) make this complete?? ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP

... and the other pictures. ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP