fire pinch

Waow impressive number for that PM sub! Whats your room volume? Where did you measure this output? Beside the sub or at listening position? Because well... the PM 5.1 sub isnt magic and I guess that with a sub like the RSW-15 or a DIY sub would get your SPL meter over 130 dB if it could measure it!!! But Im curious to know the maximum SPL of your sub between 25 and 40 Hz, just to know if your SPL will still be over 110 dB or with music, lets say a boom boom song, whats the max SPL at each boom? This sub is for sure fantastic for you in that room The PM Ultra sub... hmm I dont think it will be stellar if we talk about the shake value (at 20 Hz). But for overall, Im sure that this will be a sub which will bring a lot for your money. The best sub ever made for PC! Still, its hard to beat SVS and Paradigm (for Canadians) for the cost/performance ratio. I wonder how would stack the new PDR series from Paradigm against any PM subs, they are not very expensive...

Hmmm... one subwoofer? Im thinking about a DIY XXX18 subwoofer, that woofer can displace about 7 liters of air. This is not a fictive woofer take a look at the Resonant Engineering website if you dont beleive me (not a well known woofer). This is an XBL2 technolgy enabled woofer like the Adire Tumult. What about a single Tumult loaded with dual 18" passive radiators like the Acc. Vis. Denali. Dont you think that this will be enough?

What about an SVS B4+ or dual PB2+? Not enough? Or why not a dual Tumult subwoofer like the Acoustic Vision Everest!

Yeah thats right... but not worse between lets say 20 and 120 Hz. Gotta give an example before coming to the conclusion. Its just that I didnt explained correctly what I thought... Suppose you take two Tempest enclosure tuned to 18 Hz of 7 and 9 cubic ft and you feed them with 300W of power. We will see easily that the 9 cubic ft box will be more efficient in the deep bass region, because with the same power, it will reach higher excursion in that deep bass region. In that case, 300W of power is pretty the maximum you can use if you dont want to bottom out the 9 cubic ft Tempest, theorically. BUT, because the 7 cubic ft box is a bit less efficient, it has a little bit less excursion down low, so you can add it a bit more power to reach its maximum excursion. So with with the 7 cubic ft box, by adding a bit more power, you can get a little more mid-bass impact (the overall SPL curve goes up). The 7 cubic ft box with the same power than the 9 cubic ft box, having a bit more mid-bass impact originaly due to their respective alignment (7 cubic ft box is more peaky in room in mid-bass), would have even a little more mid-bass impact with little more power. You dont get more efficiency accross ALL the frequency range: by enlarging the enclosure, you begin to loose some mid-bass power, but you gain power below 30 Hz... or 40 Hz well, depending of what type of woofer. So in a resume: "So while excursion limited power handling decreases, I wouldn't say it's "worse": Worse in the mid-bass region. Its what I meant and I think I wasnt enough accurate in what I said... I talked while having in mind the mid-bass and impact, because I think that its what Mustang like. Sorry about that Thank you for your post Frankie, next time I should spend more time posting message so I would be more accurate in my statements

Oh well... if you dont need so much bass below 20 Hz, Id say go for a 6 or 7 cubic ft enclosure instead. Because a 9 cubic ft box depending of the tuning, will just be less punchier in the mid-bass region and the power handling would be a tad worse. This is not what you want? Mid-bass impact? 9 cubic ft Tempests are better suited to use EBS alignments. If you want more punch and you care less about ultra low bass then I would suggest you to go with a smaller box and a tuning of around 18 Hz (would still go very low). This is what I have now and Im fully satisfied of the bass: punchy, powerfull and earthquakes lol!. And its quality too is stellar: very flat to an impressive 16 Hz in my room, no boost at all or just a LITTLE without EQing -> see the results I posted in this tread .

Thank you much Ear... You are making my opinions toward the Subsonic 7 even more solid! As indicated above, I was quite sure the VTF-3 would rock it. But without any long hearing tests, I prefered to have some comments from other and I hoped to have some of you ear You are certainly asking me why Im a bit worried about the VTF-3... its because I can sell the Tempest for the same price and the Tempest crush it completely both in quality and quantity! The price/perfromance ratio of the Tempest is truely INSANE! I was surprised last day to see that the Tempest could beat the VTF-3 by 8-9dB at 20 Hz!!! Maybe the SPL meter got crushed or I did something wrong because I found this unbeleivable! So when Im back to my VTF-3, I have to think differently for how much good it is for the money, I get all shocked, you see... Thanx for your reply

Hi all! I never tested extensively the PSB Subsonic 7 subwoofer... any of you know how it compare against lets say an Hsu VTF-3 or SVS PB1-isd? Just by curiosity because I have a friend who ask me if the Subsonic 7 well worth the money. I heard one and it sounded quite good but I felt that for the price, we can have just better. I just didnt test it seriously with test tones to know how powerfull it is, its roll off point seemed to be near 30 Hz. I have the Hsu VTF-3 for sell as some may know. I adviced him to buy my Hsu because I felt that it is just better all around. Not because I really want to sell it, I just want to be honnest and I want him to be satisfied of his purchase. thank you

and the last one where you can see its back... It is quite blurry on the class D amp but cant do better with an Intel camera The most sad thing part there is that this sub will be for sale when I'll have the Tumult woofer. Have a nice day

Another one

I just finished completely my Tempest sub (I mean applying the finish on it)! So here are some pictures for you Here is the first one... (logitech name stand for the cam I used for taking a picture)

LOOOOOL!!!!!

Opss double post sorry, I clicked too many times on my mouse in a second, dunno why lol!

You know you will never be close until the day you wont have any place to walk because all spaces will be filled with a sub LOL! But well, I guess that you will enlarge your house if this becomes problematic hehe!

6dB more output... but at what price? I guess that this will be one of an expensive sub! I just hope that my next Tumult sub is less expensive and MORE powerfull than this unit! By the way, according to the very last news I got, I should have the Tumult around October 14th if everything is all right...

Mistrass, Very good numbers indeed I hope so much to get similar numbers when my Tumult sub will be built (with passive radiators). I think that at least, I should get even a bit more SPL because some says including Dan Wiggins that 1 Tumult sub = 2.5 Tempest subs. Some even say 1 Tumult for 3 Tempests but I hardly beleive it! As you may know, this is because the Tumult woofer has less distortion when pushed to its limit compared to the Tempests. But oh well... 3 times more, I find this rating too much optimistic, this is very unbeleivable I know that the room come a lot into the game but Im sure that mine is smaller than yours (1500 cubic ft). Gotta see that before December this year I hope! Doozer, It depends of how are you ready to spend A tumult woofer with a high powered amp can give you very deep bass in a small enclosure. With all the great woofers out there from Adire Audio, Dayton and Stryke, I wouldnt think about a 10 inch woofer. They will displace far less air than great priced 12". For having as much bass as a low cost 12" woofer such as the Adire Audio Shiva, the Dayton Titanic MKII 1202 and the Stryke AV-12, you would have to pay more for a 10 incher. For a budget sub, a Shiva woofer + a 250W part express amp in a ported 3 cubic ft enclosure can give you great deep bass. But for many DIY subs, you may want to build bigger to have better sound such as a Shiva in a 5 cubic ft ported enclosure tuned at 18 Hz (EBS alignment). So to not build so big boxes, you may want to choose 12" drivers and if you want more bass, you can build another similar sub and to put it in the back of your room (the other sub in the front). And to explain the differences between different sized subs... Bigger subs will tends to have better low ends, to be more efficient and to have better bass quality (tighter, more natural, etc). Smaller subs will loose some efficiency and some extension but they will have more attack (chest thumping bass) and more mid-bass presence. But now, you must know that some small subs can sounds as good as some other big boxes with a different woofer. Some woofers will feel more confortable in a bigger box such as the Adire Audio tempest and some may be happy in small boxes. 12 inch woofers will generally like 4 to 5 cubic ft box while 15 inchers will prefer 7 to 9 cubic ft boxes... there are some exceptions but generally. Below these box sizes, the 12" and 15" woofers will be okay but they wont produce as deep, accurate and tight bass as I explained above. I hope that I expalained well, I tried to explain largely. If you want more accurate answers later, just ask us a more accurate question now that you know some basic things

ROFL Ear!!!!! I knew you would come up on this tread but I really didnt expect to have a good laugh like that Omg, I even laugh it again while Im writing!!!!!! I guess that Im too tired or your just too God! (Of course I am you will say) Formica, 2400W of power shouldnt be a problem at all according to some people in the HTF Forum. Justly, Seth_L feeds his Tumult with 2400W of power without any problems. He even told me that the thermal limit of the Tumult is in fact 1600W during ONE hour and 4800W for a second. But well... I will try to avoid playing test tones during hours If I dont want it to turn into paper weight on my foot lol! And yes, I will try WILL TRY to keep my Tempest until the Tumult sub is done. But ahhh... my poor budget, this would bring me more money back if I sell it! I like to have some cash left behind! Fortunately, I have some numbers about its max SPL and SPL linearity (Tempest). That Tumult order shouldnt be surprsing for you... didnt you realize before that I really really wanted it?! By the way, I didnt order yet the Stryke PR's... your message for the PR's seems to be a warning for me, I think that I should considere it and order them ASAP... like tomarrow or in two days when my mind will be ready (I might choose the 2400g instead).

I would be interested to know too how it performs but against the original PW-2200. Anyone know? Some numbers and subjective comments?

As promised in one of my posts, you will be informed and will read probably the first review of this monster on this forum!!! It was in my mind since the June month this year and because it was in my mind, it couldnt be NOT built! In those summer hot days, I thought about building first the Tempest and to sell it after, I couldnt pass that Tempest woofer. I wanted absolutely to know how this woofer could perform. The Tumult wont be in a sealed enclosure of course, because I want the extreme most of it in deep bass performance. It will certainly be in a 3 cubic ft box with dual Stryke 18" 1600g passive radiators feeded with a 2400W amp. The results will be extreme bass impact and at the same time very powerfull low end. It wont have the same very audiophile bass quality I would get from an EBS alignment but I think that the Tumult XBL2 motor will well compensate for very low distortion. And I still think that the results in sound quality will be better than most subwoofers out there. Well... we will see when it will be done I expect to have the woofer in about 3 to 4 weeks, its what the dealer said. But with all those Tumults waiting delay which happened during the past months, I expect to have it even later. En résumé, if I could have it before December, I would be happy Im not that stressed and hyperactive! Of course, this will be a hearth stopping day when I will receive it

---------------- On 9/10/2003 7:32:42 PM TheEAR wrote: in fact the revised PW2200 is even more impressive. ---------------- More impressive but at what cost? This is da question... This would be so damn impessive if they would sold it at the same price than the present version!!!

Holly cow!!! With an Acoustic Visions Everest, I guess that you would be near 125 dB SPL at 16 Hz, at listening position, if not more!!! 10 liters of woo***e displacement! This would be crazy! And who wouldnt be satisfied to have all your army of subwoofers? When you will have the Everest sub, and a B4 or two, do you have the idea to crank up at the maximum all your subs at the same time? LOL!!! House destruction! Now, Im reading some documentations about horn loaded subwoofers. The LAB12 horn loaded sub project seems very interesting. But instead of buying an Eminence Lab 12 sub, I would buy instead one or two Adire DPL12 to reach lower frequencies with more authority. I know that these type of subs roll of rapidly below 30 Hz most of the time, but with some EQing, the final results wouldnt look that bad. But Im wondering if a LAB12 sub can be very potent in the bass quality department... For sure, I would get insane sound pressure level at a low cost (very sure about at least 130 dB from 25 Hz and up with proper placement). However, it will be kinda very complicated to build And also, they dont look so beautifull. So its why that Im really just thinking about it now, and no more

I didnt find any place in the Klipsch forum which talk about selling subwoofers or stuffs like that but Im taking a chance Im telling myself... we never know! I would like so much to keep my VTF-3 subwoofer, and to keep my Tempest too. But eventualy, when I will make other subwoofers, I will have to sell some because I cant keep pilling subwoofers... unfortunately! So if any people would be interested to get my VTF-3, just tell me. Its condition? Perfect condition except a very minor glitch. It is not visible when youre not near the sub. I can take some picutres so you will know, even some VIDEOS. Yes, videos! . The cabinet is 1 year old but I got a new woofer from dr. Hsu some months after my purchase because it was defective. I even think that I wrote a topic about it here. The amp got upgraded too at the same time for better sustained power. I can sell anywhere in USA or Canada this wouldnt be a problem even if Ive never shipped anything outside Canada. You would have to pay $849 brand new but my price is 550 + shipping For more info, dont hesitate and ask me. I even have an SPL meter as some people can know here so if you are curious about its performance before buying, just ask me again

---------------- blake_mooney wrote: a thousand dollar difference is NOT worth it ive heard $1500 infinity, polk audio subs and i can honestly say that imo the klipsh pro media 5.1 sub sounds better... ---------------- LoL... infinity, polk audio subs. Just go listen to a Klipsch RSW-15 sub, a Velodyne HGS-15/18 and come back with your impressions compared to your PM sub!!! Those subs will blast yours below 30 Hz without any efforts and for sure, they sound better unless you like only distortioned boomy bass. There is no way a PM dual 8 incher can come close when we talk about air displacement capability of most of the good 12 or 15 inchers out there!!! And I know those 2 mentionned subs cost a lot but if you want better value go buy an SVS subwoofer. The PB2+ at $1199US will beat the crap out of your PM 5.1 sub! You talked about no difference between 500 or a 1500 sub so imagine an SVS sub which cost more than 1199 Im really sorry to be rude with you. I know the PM 5.1 sub is a very good sub, the best PC multimedia sub I can say. Ive been a very happy Klipsch Promedia listener in the past. But I think that before doing a comment like this one, you have to listen to some other more potent subs than Infinity and Polk Audio! Im sure than The_Ear will be really shocked to see that post from you and he risks to react!

I was wondering with what kind of finish EXACTLY I can go to cure some surrounds. Thanx beaucoup l'oreille, I will take note of this!

KEEP THE POSTS GOING!!! ROFL!! Im reaching 1000 views! Wohooo!

Sure, the Tempest doesnt look like an insane performer. Still, even with its none impressive motor structure, it can beat some woofers with a big magnet structure. I just have to take the Sadhara 12 for an example... very imposing woofer But on papers, it diplaces less air than the Tempest, a bit less (2.35 liters). I was too, so not impressed by how the Tempest look likes. But today, I know that if I can build a medium to large box, Im gonna simply choose the Tempest and the amp which go with it for the total price. But Im not the one who have a lot of money, so its why Otherwise, the Sadhara would be so tempting for a woofer which can displace 1/4 of 10 liters of air Moreover, you dont get good SPL but insane sound quality with that XBL2 motor technology. But if you compare the Tumult VS the Sadhara and that your first criteria is the best bang for the buck, I think that the Tumult would be a better choice. BTW theEar, do you own a Velodyne HGS-15? If oui, how loud can it go at 16,20 and 25 Hz? Just wondering as Im aware than the Tempest is really close of that subwoofer in performance... not the HGS-18 althought -> maybe below 25 Hz the Tempest can have an advantage but hmm I doubt it. You are better placed to tell me