maxg

Eric, The phono stage will be a separate item. It has to interface through the Decware ZTPRE that is my pre-amp (and only has line stages). I am thinking that getting him to create a phono stage and step-up transformer should give that real tubie sound whilst being able to support an MC cartridge. I am very interested to hear what difference this combo will make on my front end in comparison to the fairly low level (quality wise) MM cartridge I have now. As for the type of tube rectification to be used I am, as ever, totally out of my depth here. I was planning to leave it to Odyseus (the maker) to choose with the only brief being "make it sound better than it does with the standard issue rectification". As it happens I am now leaning towards getting the thing in standard guise and maybe moving to tube rectification in the future once I have had time to digest the new sound. Unlike you guys, I am wholey dependent on my ears to tell me what I do and do not like. I have never encumbered my brain with the ins and outs of how these things actually work so till now it has been a case of slowly slowly progressing towards better sound. The only concern I have is the balance of the system. Right now I would describe the music as well balanced (something Aristidis commented on at the ACA meeting at my house). What I want to make sure of is that I progress whilst retaining that balance. The interesting thing here is the presence of the sub-woofer. At the same time it provides the bass that truely balances out the sound whilst adding yet another level of complexity to deal with in the setup. Each change upstream requires a lot of work on the cross-over and volume tweaking of the sub to optimize the setup and relatively minor changes result in major sonic improvements. All of that means that testing takes time. On the positive side I kinda like playing with the settings to get the most out of the sound.

Ok...this is going to get really confusing if I dont take a stand. Basically unless these amps produce a worse sound than the amps I have now I am going to buy them whatever the rectification and then address all issues of upgrading once I have got the things in and working. I would certainly expect Arco's amps to sound better - there is a fairly significant cost differential, but these amps look like a good jumping off point for SET and the manufacturer seems open to playing with them (as in Kelly comes up with the suggestions and he does to the soldering and whatnot). Dubai, As an aside I was out hunting again for your DSOTM. Yet again I came up empty handed on the DSOTM front, but I did find 30 more albums for me. Either I am going to have to succeed in my quest or I am going to have to move into a bigger appartment!! Interestingly, and typically, I did find 2 PF albums - both much rarer than DSOTM (an original and still sealed Atom Heart Mother and a similar copy of "More" - a film soundtrack that PF did that was missing from my collection). You have no idea how long I have been searching for "More". I had actually given up on it completely. I have now only got to get "Piper at the Gates of Dawn" and I have them all.. Of course none of this is what you wanted to hear - but I am working on what should be the easiest task in the world - there were zillions of copies of DSOTM made here- there must be one somewhere!!

A home demo would be a great idea for the standard product. I should be able to arrange it - but not until the end of the month as that is the earliest he can have one ready. I am hoping it will integrate well with the Sansui's and the ZTPRE - and I am taking your word for it that this tube rectification thing is the one to have - he will build that one to order for me. Otherwise we will see how it pans out. I have heard other set units before (at Arco's house for one). The main aim will be to see how it compares to what I have now. the relative performance Vs the other SET amps out there will be something I discover later. As I have seen before the tube makes a huge difference. No doubt there is some rolling ahead...

Nos, 1 Euro = $1 so conversion aint too tricky right now!!! Yes take the 18% off for US purchases. Shipping I have no idea about - isnt there something on the site to tell you? I am sure there are several choices and some wont be too horrendous pricewise. As for the tube Vs SS rectification I think I will await a winner between Eric and Kelly before deciding finally...

I am waiting to find out myself - but he is normally very cheap. Will let you know...(another thing I owe you). Cheers

Well the speakers / subs in Ray's picture looks very nice and all but it does beg the question of where all the electronics go. You know - the minor stuff like amps, preamps, sources and the like... I suppose you could just have the speakers installed as a conversation piece, after all it isnt obviously a speaker system - more like modern art. Looking at the prices it bears more than a passing resemblence to modern art come to that... Shouldnt this setup be in the Tate Gallery?

Thanks DND. We used to do something similar to moshing in punk rock concerts in the UK in the late 70's (showing my age a bit) but I dont think it had a name back then. I had certainly never heard of moshing till today (you learn something new...) I have also seen the body surfing thing - but only on TV. I think it takes a greater amount of trust in your fellow man than I have.

I have exchanged emails with the guy at Tsakiridis devices and it seems he is open to all sorts of things. I am waiting for him to get back to me on the tube rectification issue. In the meantime it looks like he is ready to deal and trade in my existing amps / old pre-amp etc. Looks like I could be joining the SET club. Not only that but I have asked him to look at putting a tube based phono stage for me so I can move to an MC cartridge... Watch this space.

PGH, The Duo was playing at last year's high end show in Athens and I got to listen to them for a considerable period of time (about 2 hours) with a vinyl source. They produce a much more laid back sound than Klipsch and are certainly an interesting speaker but there were a few issues that concerned me. Foremost amongst these was the integration of the woofer unit with the Horns. Somehow, at least in that room and with that setup it didnt seem quite right. Whether it was a problem of the driver or the crossover or something else I could not tell but there was definitely a disconnection between the bass and the rest of the sound. I should say that those comments are in relation both to my expecation of the sound and to the sound up the hallway where a pair of KHorns were playing with a fairly serious front end. With the KHorns you couldnt tell where the crossover points were on listening, with the avantegards it felt like you could.

---------------- On 11/8/2002 3:26:57 AM skaloumbakas wrote: With such a presentation of 'Tsakiridis devices', I am sure Odysseas is going to give you a good discount... ---------------- A good discount??? - I was thinking of a job!! Just kidding.

OK Dean you talked me into it. I am going to trade in these: and maybe this: If he will take them for this: plus some cash (from the sale of) this: That should leave me some money left over so I was thinking of picking up on of these: And maybe his new tube phono stage if it will drive an MC cartridge. I'm also thinking of getting the above mentioned MC cartridge. For the money it seems that the Denon 103 is aces but I might go for the 110 with its higher output. I should after all of that still have some money left over so I might listen to Tony who is driving me mad to get a new arm for the TT as well. Whatever I buy I will make sure it can be moved to a new TT when I stump up the cash for it. Exciting times ahead - I wonder if it will all get me back to the music?? (Just showing off my picture posting abilities!!)

Forgive my lack of knowledge - Mosh?

Yep - I said that. Hardly the first about face I have made in this hobby of ours. I have made so many it makes me quite dizzy. All I can tell you is that right now, with my ear as it is today, the RF7 is just too harsh for me. If I am going to be honest so is the Forte, but less so. Tune in next week for me to recant the above.

Kelly, Thank heavens you are around. Now you know saying something like rectifying tubes means as much to me as the Swahili national anthem. The amps in question have 1 x 300B & 1 x 6SL7 & 1 x 6AG7. Assuming the 300B is for power what are the 6SL7 and the 6AG7 for? Rectifying? Asks Max Hopefully... If not what would be used for rectifying and is it likely that whatever it is is replacable by tubes to do the job? What tubes should I be asking him to fit? Dont go overboard on this - just make detailed and copious notes, wiring diagrams and the like and I will forward it to him to have a look at. TIA Max

I had no idea he was on the net, Christos - now I feel like an idiot as I just posted a link on the aca forum as well. I am interested in his 300B monoblocks. They look like a real bargain at 810 euros - especially as I just sold my Accuphase for 1200!!! (Of course I will need him to take my old ones in as trade in - not for the money - Georgia will kill me if yet more amps appear. the house just isnt big enough for her shoes and my amps!!!)

The guy that made my amps is now finally on the net!!!! What a leap forwards - and look at that - a couple of SET options too... Click here for Tsakiridis Devices Greek made amplifiers

I'm with Dean on this one. I can't see what elements of the RF7 would make it more suitable for a surround sound system than the Forte's beyond the issue of the difficulty in finding a matching centre channel for the Forte's (tonal matching and all that). I would have thought that in a surround sound system the majority of users would have an additional sub to handle the low end and that therefore the bass benefits of the RF7's would be negated whilst the stronger mid-range performance of the Forte's would come to the fore. Of course we are leaving out the issue of the Trantix horn Vs the horn on the Heritage speakers for the highs. This seems to be a personal preference issue more than anything else. I am not a fan of the Trantix but I know there are many others that would disagree. Of course I have to caveat all of the above by saying that I have, in fact, never heard forte's in a surround sound system so all of the above is theoretical.

"This is problematic to me. What you might be decribing is something more akin to a system that is erring on the side of thy Audiophile Syndrome over one of simple musicality" That is exactly my fear. My system is almost heading to the Quad 989 / Accuphase levels of resolution that Tony has and this is most definitely not what I want. It is interesting that you point to the amps as your sample culprits. In my case these are the same as they have been for some time and it is the speakers that have changed. There is no doubt in my mind that the current setup plays more of the music on offer. There was, seemingly, a paucity to the sound from the Heresy's that resulted in only a proportion of the available sound coming through. Some parts of the music were simply totally absent and these now appear in abundance. The result of all this is something of a shock to the ear. There is so much more going on musically that it distracts the mind. For example, on my copy of DSOTM I had gotten used to the way the Heresies played. With the Sansui's the background effects are now much more obvious (voices, typewriters, cash machines and the rest). I find myself listening out for these rather than taking in the whole. Further, not only are the effects more obvious, but the handling of the effects is also much more defined. There are bassy wooshes that move across the soundstage with the Sansui's in a way they never did with the Heresys. In fact wherever an effect on the Heresys was observed it was generally fairly static in the soundstage whilst with the Sansui's it almost never is. This is further exacerbated by the added sense of depth that the Sansui's bring. The Heresies always presented a fairly flat soundstage with little sense, or at least only a subtle sense, of the relative distances of the various sources of sound in the whole. On the Sansui's conversely there is relatively massive depth, especially on orchestral works. It is at the same time amazing and distracting. The fact that the voices and instruments do remain static on the Sansui's leads me to believe that they are the ones that are performing closer to the "design spec" but it is simply not something that I am used to and currently distracts if not detracts from the music. I am therefore debating the following: 1. Should I stick with the Sansui's and expect to get used to this development? Or, 2. Should I go back to the Heresy's and therefore back to the sound I am familiar with? This obviously begs other questions like will I be able to go back? Has my ear now become so accustomed to the new features that I will not be able to enjoy what previously was manna from heaven on the ear? In other words - have I screwed myself here and put myself in limbo? It is interesting to note that for simpler works (things like Tracy Chapman, Bob Marley, Charlie Mingus, Dave Bruebeck and such which have voice and/or relatively few instruments) I prefer the Sansui sound as the added complexity of what is going on is minimal whilst the superior rendition of things like voice come to the fore. This is why the Neil Young - Philadelphia is so moving whilst the Rossini - barber of Seville is simply too busy. Frankly it is all becoming a bit depressing. The night before last I had an emotional connection with the former piece that was magnificent. Last night I felt bombarded by the latter and was irritated by the fact that the orchestra in the performance is so obviously at a lower level, physically, than the performers. This resulted in the music coming out as a support to the voices as opposed to wrapping around them. To illustrate this imagine you are at the performance. If you are in the first row of seats you will get the definite impression of the height differential between orchestra and staged voicing, if you are in row 16 you won't as both the relative difference in heights is reduced due to distance and the accoustics of the auditorium come into play. Right now I would say the Sansui's are in rows 1 to 4 and the Heresys in rows 16 to 30. Maybe I should be looking for a row 8 speaker...

This may not be an easy find, although I stand to be corrected and look foolish. I have one friend with the Forte 2 and one friend with the RF7. Although comparison between different systems / rooms etc. is always risky I would not describe the RF7 as an upgrade from the Forte, especially if your tastes are primarily rock music. Neither system is what I would call optimally setup but if I were forced to choose between the 2 speakers on the evidence at hand I would go for the Forte every time. Just my 0.02

The lunatic is on the grass The lunatics are on the grass .... DSOTM Hello, is anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me? .... The Wall (comfortably numb) Plus the lyrics from a slew of songs by Suzanne Vega (My name is Luca, Marlena on the wall etc.) Wise men say (only fools rush in) - Elvis Danny Boy (too many artists) Probably many more but I cant think right now.

No they will play quite happily with 4 ohms - I have tried it, but you may damage them with low power amps whether running at 4 or 8 ohms. I forgot to mention this to Justin. My advice would be to disconnect the speakers from the current amp immediately. Good point Kain...

OK Justin, Welcome to the world of high efficiency speakers that are not nearly as easy to drive as you might think. When I originally bought mine I hooked them up to a Yamaha Receiver (the 595 is memory serves - about 90 wpc SUPPOSEDLY!!) and it sucked - bigtime. It just wouldnt drive them properly. I first added a Rotel 1080 2 channel power amp (200 WPC) and it drove them fine using the Yamaha as a pre but it was still harder than diamond studded underwear. After a short while (5 weeks) I replaced the whole thing with the Accuphase E211 (I sold yesterday) and it was much much better. The piercing highs were controlled, a soundstage appeared and even a little bass poked its head around the corner. Of course there was another leap forwards with the introduction of tubes but that was an evolution in sound rather than a revolution. Do not lose heart. It is a struggle but the results are remarkable once you achieve them.

I was going to write how nice it was that a hardware discussion turned into a music recommendation swap and then this flora and fauna approach to isolating your TT came up. I suppose the cat is out of the bag on this baby.

Jazman, The problem is not that there is anything missing with the sound. If anything I have been concerned that the sound is too good and leaves me examining the sound rather than listening to the music. I am now coming to the opinion that the solution is not a downgrade but rather to tweak away any various items in the system until the music overwhelms the sound. Funnily enough I may have just found that very tweak. As you may or may not know houses in Greece almost invaribly have solid floors, often marble. In summer we live without carpets and in winter we put them down again. Each year I forget what a dramatic difference this makes to my sound. Yesterday the carpets were put down again, all newly cleaned and with a very high WAF for a sonic upgrade!! Oh what a difference. I was transfixed to my chair. I played the sound track from Philadelphia which contains at least 3 tracks that just melt me. The first is the Boss - Streets of Philadelphia, the second is the aria featuring Maria Callas (the name escapes me at time of typing) and the third is for me the big hitter. Philadelphia - City of Brotherly love. In the film this is played during the after funeral get together with a video of the children playing together running on a TV in the room. It always brought a lump to my throat but yesterday I am not ashamed to say I had tears running down my face. The music went right through me and it must have taken me 5 minutes to recover enough to get up and replace the record when it finished. That is what I have been searching for! All that analysis of sound just gets in the way of the emotional bond with the music. For now, at least, such analysis is in abayance.

God bless the Czech republic indeed - I think that that is where my TT was made (Pro-ject)...or is that where my tubes were made (Tesla)? Anyway one or the other and if not either both or neither. Clear? Good! Anyone know how the Czech national anthem goes???