maxg

OK, I have a friend with KLF 30's with a modified crossover that seem to go down to 5 hz (the lowest test signal we have). This is an utterly unpleasant experience that appears to cause 2 main effects. In people - dizziness and vomiting, in buildings - cracks in the walls. I should add that the same building passed through the last Athens quake with not a mark. I have no idea why anyone would want a system to do this - personally I am kind of traditional and use my system to listen to music, but what to I know. Oh yes, he is of the opinion he does not need a sub - cant argue with that!!

Put me down for a me too on that one. All I am looking for is a good quality surround sound preamp that I can match to tube monoblocks (one for each speaker). I dont even care if it doesnt do stereo too well as I have a preamp for stereo. Not sure on the price Boa - but you might want to take a look at Tag Maclaren preamps. Only seen one but it seemed to have a lot of features on it and the sound seemed good (of course that was relative to an integrated Yamaha so not much of an indication really...)

Prana-Bindu - that's where I have heard that before!! I read the first 4 Dune books, then I heard 5 came out - went out and bought what I thought was 5 in hardback - read it, was mystified and then discovered I had read book 6 - never read book 5 as a result! Right - that's over with - about this better at night thing with music. I have noticed it to and just put it down to being more relaxed in a quieter environment with less distractions. There aint too much better than listening to Jazz late at night with a scotch on the rocks, a cigar, the dogs sleeping in front of the stereo and the wife sleeping in front of the dogs....mine is a strange house.

First off - try not to think of me as this altruistic do-gooder. I am merely an inveterate tinkerer who cannot bare to see something poorly implemented and can't resist wielding a screwdriver when the opportunity arises. One of you asked if they have been round to hear my system. They have. It is the main reason they were interested in a swap - despite the lower cost of my setup. I have also been back round there to do a little testing and comparison of my own. Conclusions are as follows: 1. The Luxman setup does not drive Heritage speakers as well as my Accuphase E211. Whilst it does control the bass well enough there is some sibilance. Further, the amp does not drive the speakers fully until the volume is at a relatively high level (no meter sorry - but significantly above speaking level) I have suggested to them that they should still look at getting a new amp. I do not think they will go for tubes as it is a house full of people who know next to nothing about audio (one audiofile in the house) and who will never wait the 30 minutes for hte tubes to warm up. 2. The bass problem (reverberation) is significant. Strangely it would be much less of a problem for the Heresy's I originally wanted to swap. They cannot move the speakers away from the wall far enough as the room dimensions wont allow for it. 3. One of the speakers has strange overtones in the bass. I think a service will sort it out and this is probably not unreasonable for a 15 year old speaker. Right now I would say I still have the better sound (especially with my tubes) but they have more bass and more volume than I am able to produce. Even with all of the above, though, they still have that magic Klipsch sound that can send shivers down your spine. So was it all worth it? Yes, if I am going to be honest, oh yes. The pleasure I get observing the difference we achieved is really something. I also know that one day I will get a pair of Belles and with my accoustics and my amps I am going to rock this house off its foundations!!

As some of you may recall I have a near neighbour who was interested in swapping his Belle Scala's for my Heresy's plus accuphase amp. His logic being that the Belles were too big for his room and his amp (separates - Luxman pre and power with matching Luxman CD player) was not up to the job. Anyway yesterday I went round to their house and whilst there had a listen. It was dreadful. Almost no power - no bass control, zero sound stage - really awful. All I had to do was to bring around the Heresy's and my amp and these speakers were mine - my sound blows this dross out of the window. Instead what do I do? I start by moving the speakers closer together and towing them in. Then I cut the speaker cable up and reconnect (noticing that the previous connection was so loose it came of in my hand). Having built the stage (and moved most of the furniture around) I check the output level of the CD player (which is on half) and turn it up to full. Finally I saw the interconnects - which were the sort of cable given away free with a computer speaker and change them for 2 spare pairs of mogami's I had at home. When we fire up the system the difference is just incredible. Concrete sound stage, proper bass, full warm deep sound from both sides. They are ecstatic. We still have a problem with some reverberation from the wooden unit behind the speaker that seems to pick up strongly on a double bass. I have still not fixed this but I improved it with the addition of a wall bracket and proper screws/lugs to securely fix it in place (the mod is hidden behind the speaker). Anyway the last thing on their mind is an upgrade (downgrade) now. What an idiot I am!!

So - it seems that as soon as I go away you all beat each other up - I see - well go and stand in the corner for 3 weeks till I get back from holiday. Try to be nice to each other guys - and have a great summer, all of you.

I would have to agree with most here in citing the speakers as the most beneficial improvement you could make. On the other hand I was struck be your reply saying you like the way they sound so lets reverse the question. Why do you want to upgrade? What dont you like about your system? What's missing? Answer that and we can advise properly.

Oh come on - think big man! 2 * 18 inch woofers (powered?), sealed unit (non of that bass reflex rubbish) with a 21" passive woofer on the rear. Of course the box will be rather large.....probably bigger than a KHorn - but at least you wont need to put it in a corner, just a stadium!

Fully agree with your thank-you list and congrats on your new status. I am closing in on it myself, as a 90 odd post newbie. What's the latest news of Paul Klipsch anyway? Last I heard he was gravely ill.

I use both straight wire connections and banana plus into my Heresy 2's. The banana plugs (cheap gold plated affairs) are for the tube monoblock amps and the straight wire for the Accuphase amp. I have switched these connections around and am unable to detect any difference is sound quality on either amp. (I use them to play different types of music which is why I have both - still cant find tubes to play rock properly and never found a solid state that plays Jazz the way that the tubes do.) My conclusion is that it doesnt make a whole lot of difference either way - as long as you have a good connection in the first place. Bare wire is obviously less practical, as mention in the previous post, if you do a lot of moving stuff around, disconnecting and reconnecting and so on. Hope this helps.

Well I think I understood the question, but I certainly did not understand most fo the responses. This whole digital conversion to analog thing is so complex (jitter, bit-rates, lasers, caches, buffers) I have given up entirely trying to get to grips with it and decided to take a radical step and let my earsw decide. I was fortunate enough recently to hear a top of the line Accuphase SACD player and separate DAC (model 100 and 101). This is probably close to the king of the line in digital players (certainly judging by the $28,000 asking price). For the demo I heard it playing an XRCD (Famous sound of the three blind mice) which I provided as I do not have any SACD experience to compare it to. Yes - surprisingly (lol) it did sound better than my Marantz CD6000 (£250) but not, in my opinion $27,750 better. The setup was not all that dissimilar to my own in that it had an Accuphase amp (E307) and silver speaker cables going to a pair of Heresy's. Then, just for interest, we compared it to a ClearAudio record deck with its top of the range arm and cartidge through the same amp with the same interconnects. To be honest the recording was not the same as the TBM one we had used for the CD test but it was a nice Jazz recording of similar musical dimensions. To no-one's surprise the Clearaudio was "clearly" better. What was a surprise was how much. Every element of the music we could identify was massively better, the highs, mids, bass, staging, tonality, balance everything. If I scored (arbitrarily) the Clearaudio at 100% then I would estimate the Accuphase at something around 88-90% with the Marrantz at 85-87%. With the price of the Clearaudio setup at a mere $12,000 the Accuphase makes it look like a bargain. I wonder if my wife will see it like that? On the other hand I would have to say that I am amazed at how small the sound difference was with the Marantz, and, if I am going to be honest that represents the best bargain of all in terms of music/$ ratio. But my God the sound of that Clearaudio is tempting...

Go on holiday. Spend 7 days listening to a Philips car cassette deck connected to Sony car speakers (7 years old - paper speakers). Connect a Sony walkman CD player via a tape cassette adapter. Take a selection of your favorite music along for the ride (and a sick bag). Trust me - when you get home and fire up your own system things sound just incredible...

This is the most flame free, non-agressive board I have come across on the net. No complaints here - you should see what happens at audioreview.... BTW - been on holiday - did I miss anything?

I am not sure these are comparible products. The promedias are aimed at computers, are all powered, and do not include a centre channel. The quintets, on the other hand, are a set of speakers for a surround sound system and include a centre channel. They are not powered speakers. I bought a set of quintets about 3 years ago (with a KSW 10 sub) and enjoyed the result although my room is rather too large for them to have worked properly. I have not heard the promedias for a long time and then only once. They were certainly impressive for a computer sound system but were more aimed at computer game effects than music reproduction.

My first Klipsch experience was listening to a friends KHorns - somewhat mind blowing but I was so shocked at the physical size of the beasts I knew it would be a long time till I owned a pair (if ever). Having decided that Klipsch offered the sound I liked it was then just a case of working up through the range - started with quintets - added 3.1 monitors. These were replaced by Heresy's some time later. That was a totally unplanned purchase. I was off with 2 friends, one of whom was looking for speakers for his girlfriend. He was auditioning one speaker after another from both Klipsch and other lines until a pair of Heresy's were produced and connected. It wasnt like I was even listening particularly. I find that constant switching of components tires my ears very quickly so I was miles away in my own world. The second the Heresy's came on I just sat down dumbfounded. I could not believe the clarity of the sound. Voices soared around my head and I reached for a credit card. There was only one pair in the shop so it was a good thing he didnt want them (for his girlfriend - he got her the RF3's instead). It was a love at first hearing thing. Looking back I think the thing that caught me was the familly resemblence to the sound I heard from those KHorns. It struck a chord in me and I could not resist. I havent regretted the decision for a moment since.

When I first got my Heresy 2's they were too bright also. After some playing around we discovered that the culprit was the Yamaha amplifier I was using as a pre alondside the Rotel 1080 power amp. Once I changed this setup for an Accuphase E211 all brightness disappeared, bass appeared for the first time and I had a truely balanced sound. You will not get low bass out of Heresy's - they do not go down that far, but for mid bass they truely can perform, as long as the amp will drive the woofers. My understanding is that the Heresy 1's have less bass - you may want to consider switching the driver for the Heresy 2 model - I believe this works without problem. Good luck finding a solution.

The expert when it comes to converting the masses to Klipsch has got to be my friend Tony. Not only did he get me into them but also 5 colleagues from work and 4 mutual friends plus who knows how many others I havent met. His technique is simple. We go over to his house and meet his KHorns. We listen, we are amazed, we head over to Laios (the Greek distributor) and we buy whichever of the range suits our needs. so far: Nick - forte's Jimmy - KLF 30s Me - Heresy 2's (well first quintets, then 3.1 monitors and now Heresy's) Antonis - my 3.1 monitors and qunitets. Jo - RF3's Stelios - cant remember the model name - the ones with the 2 side firing 12 inch subs built in. George - Chorus .... We are a growing band. Currently there are 3 others waiting for auditions. Each convert has started the process of conversion himself. we reckon by 2004 (the Olympic year here in Athens) every man woman and child in Greece will have at least one pair of Klipsch speakers. LOL

Yamaha certainly make perfectly reasonable receivers in terms of their price:performance. The only problem is that they tend to be a little bright. When you couple this with a klipsch horn loaded speaker the result can be harsh. A lot will depend on your tastes. I certainly found my original combo (Yamaha 595a acting as a pre-amp for a Rotel 1080 power amp driving Heresy 2 speakers) was harsh in the extreme and made some pieces of music unlistenable to. Having said that I am a fan of the softer/warmer sound and now listen primarily to my tubes monoblocks reserving an SS amp for rock, dance and so on ( where the sharper, colder sound works better IMHO). Generally it seems that for surround sound amps the Denon is a more popular pick for Klipsch owners.

I used to have a pair of KSB 3.1 monitors that would be a good match for you, I think, if they are still available. I seem to remember there was a 1.1 and a 2.1 version if budget is really tight but you should be able to find any of them on EBay. I actually had mine matched to the quintets and used them as fronts with a pair of quintets at the back. The quintets took up very little space - but I never heard a peep out of them from my listening chair, so I would agree with others that they will not hack it (unless your room is very small!!

I seem to remember that the front speakers for my car are either Kevlar or carbon fibre. They sound fine for what they are but I cant say I have tried stabbing them with a ballpoint yet! Hey - Klipsch administrators - when are Klipsch going to bring out some car speakers? I lost all my boot space with the KHorns in the back and the Belle's ruin the line of the dashboard!! LOL

Well done on the system! Looks a beauty and I am sure it packs a punch. Like you I face a problem justifying expenditure to SWMBO (she who must be obeyed). Here are a number of tricks you may want to use from time to time: 1. "But darling it barely cost 2 pairs of shoes!" 2. "Its here on approval - if you cant hear the difference I will send it back (you can't hear the difference? Have you had your ears checked lately...)." 3. "I know its expensive but you dont want the neighbours to think we are skimping do you?" 4. Put on her favorite album and ask "Honestly - have you ever heard ABBA sound so good?" 5. "It was either spend the money on this or a call girl. I thought this would last longer." 6. "I spent $200 less on this than I expected. Is there anything you want with the money I saved?" There are several more - but I am thinking of writing a book of them! LOL

Careful JoJo - resistance is futile - looks like you too will be assimilated into the Borg. Still - seems like good advice to me..

"Why is maxg sheathing his speakers in Grecian Marble?" Well its a long story, but basically I have a theory that some sound permeates through the sides of the speaker and is therefore either lost (at best) or causes some distortion (at worst). By encasing the speakers in marble (I have found 50 types of marble so far - no idea which one to choose) that should effectively seal the sound into the speaker ensuring that the only outlet for it is the woofer / horn combination. It would also, therefore, allow me to place my monoblock tubes on top of each speaker. This is not such an advantage now but if I ever go surround sound I will do it with a monoblock for each speaker and will save a lot of space if the amp is on top. If I get the belle klipsch's I have my eye on, however, the deal is off as the belles are so big it will cost a fortune in marble. You asked...

I had no idea when I made this post that it would spark so much comment - both for and against surround sound. I would say that this does not augur well for DVD/a. The majority of people here (hardly a globally representative sample I agree) are 2 channel officionado's. Seems like this would move the ball in the direction of SACD which is 2 channel (currently). SACD is certainly the direction I am thinking of taking (if and when it takes off). So, is there anyone out there with a top line 2 channel setup that has moved completely to surround sound? I realise that defining top-line is a bit tricky but to be simplistic lets say a system that they spent $10,000 or so on and were happy and then switched to a surround sound setup (at any price) for music.

Well no-one has really given much coverage to the Heresy's so I suppose I will, as a proud owner of a pair of Heresy 2's. I cannot pass comment on the RF7's as like everyone else I have not heard them, but I am very familiar with the RF3 and the Heresy to here is a little comparison guide: 1. The RF3 still produces a lot of bass, certainly more than the Heresy. This is the most popular speaker Klipsch make and with good reason - it gives a lot of bang for the buck and does well on almost all music. Additionally it is very easy to drive (amplification wise) both in terms of its sensitivity and its ability to mask rather than expose other elements in the system if they are weak. 2. The Heresy (my own beloved speaker - did I already say that?). The strong points are the voice, mids and soundstaging which are breathtaking - only the Khorn is measurably better and there is a big price difference. Getting bass out of a Heresy is another story and relates to what is probably the biggest difference between the Heresy and the RF3. What the RF3 hides the Heresy ruthlessly exposes. Ok, assuming you have a reasonable amp / source combo your high bass will be excellent and mid bass acceptable but not as powerful as the KLF30 you have heard. Low-bass, in all honesty, there isnt any. The Heresy may go down to 50 Hz but it tails off fairly steeply from around 60-65 so you will not be blowing out any windows soon. If you want the Heresy highs, mids and sound-stage with bass you get a sub. It seems from your post that you are not a bass fan, as indeed neither am I and so I would lean towards the Heresy strongly. If your music listening mainly includes Classical, Jazz, Blues, soul, vocals, "light" rock and so on then these are the speakers for you (and me). If its techno funk you are after may I suggest you look elsewhere.....