StephenM

I don't want to hijack wuzzzer's thread here, but I do have a question. What difference do those features make, real world? Not to beat it into the ground, but the HK 3490 measures extremely well. SNR and crosstalk are non-issues with it. It delivers gobs of power and is tested to be stable into a 4 ohm load. It conveniently has digital inputs. To be fair, the Pioneer is very affordable, but the HK isn't exactly considerably more expensive either. Seems to me that they could affix the Mark Levinson name to the thing, sell it for ten times the cost, and some of its "audiophile" naysayers would claim it to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Just makes me wonder, that's all.

FWIW, I wasn't trying to pry into his personal life; as I said, I'm personally in the boat of just wanting a nice simple system and wonder if he feels the same way. No offense intended.

I'm a little curious as to what precipitated this as well. Don't get me wrong, I do fully believe that good quality stereo is more than adequate for enjoying music and movies in the home. However, given your system, I'd figured you for someone that duly appreciated what surround offers.

Hi wuzzzer, I'm actually aiming to take my system in a similar direction. Nothing wrong with a little simplicity, right? I actually asked a similar question, as the HK 3490 seems pretty hard to beat for the money. Its price point is very affordable, and its measurements by Gene DellaSalla are fairly impressive and in line with its specs. Its a proven level of (very good) performance. On the other hand, you've got brands like NAD and Cambridge Audio which are considerably more expensive for similar specified performance.As far as I'm concerned, the only thing that would justify their extra cost is if they do a better job into more difficult loads (ie 2 ohms, reactive). However, lacking specific benchmarks to back this up, and lacking any information of the HK's performance into such a load, I don't hold much hope that a even a $1000 NAD or Cambridge would significantly outperform the HK in this regard. In any case, from an amplifier perspective, the biggest question is "how difficult are your speakers to drive?" For me, I know my RF-5s only go down to 4 ohms, and even my "some day" speaker (Cornwalls) don't go below 3 ohms. That makes things a little easier (and cheaper) for me.

Curse you and your logic. Seriously though, while I'm pleased with the performance I get, I've read of several instances on this forum where people applied more powerful amplification and felt it was a worthy upgrade. You know the stuff: bass became deeper and tighter, the highs opened up, etc. While I do believe even my entry level HK receiver is of reasonable quality, I am curious where a higher end amp could take me (besides the poor house), and I'm curious how much of what I read is simply the placebo effect. Unfortunately, none of my friends own anything beyond a Sony HTIB. Nobody I know really cares much about hi-fi. Worse, it seems like most of the hi-fi shops nearby are closed down, which gives me less opportunity to listen.

Hi folks, Right now, I'm aiming to build/upgrade my simple, clean looking two channel system. In my dreams I see myself with a pair of Cornwalls and something ala a NAD Masters series integrated amplifier rocking out to Quadrophenia. Some day... In the meantime, I've got a pair of RF-5s that I think fairly highly of and that I'm driving with an old entry level HK surround receiver. An SVS subwoofer is in the supporting cast, but I'll either need to find an external crossover for it (it doesn't have one built in), or replace it. Now to the question. It seems like there is quite the wide field of products in the integrated amp/stereo receiver bracket. I understand the job that is expected of such a product: stable with gobs of power to drive difficult loads while maintaining low distortion, crosstalk, etc. Beyond that, I'm not sure what separates say, an HK 3490 at an MSRP of 499 from a NAD 375 at 1299. The HK certainly measures well enough and gets solid reviews. I also wonder if it is worth it to upgrade at all since I hardly feel like I'm pushing even the entry level receiver much of the time. I don't care to push it beyond -20dB on my current setup (~105dB peaks, ~75dB avg) since I do have some desire to maintain my hearing and frankly thats pretty loud anyways.All thoughts and comments are welcome.

For what it's worth, I'd recommend experimenting with toe-in and placement.

Couple other details: how loud do you like to listen to your movies, and how far away from the subwoofer will you sit? FWIW, I own a SVS PB-10 NSD in a room of similar size to your own. I sit about 8-10 feet away from it and measure levels of roughly 103-5dB at peaks from it in my typical movie watching, which is a fair bit down from reference levels. Suffice it to say, things get rumbling well enough for my tastes (and that of the ultimate volume limiter, the wife). However, if you desire higher levels than that, or if you sit further away than I do, you'd most certainly need a more capable sub than the PB-10, which I'd say is comparable in ability to the Sub-10 or 12.

I also had a pair ofthe Senn HD280s...before my cousin killed them. RIP. I'll echo River and say the ambient noise reduction is significant and it does help a great deal with SQ in some environments (and it goes both ways with you not disturbing others as much). I mostly used them plugged into my receiver which could drive them adequately for movie watching at moderate volumes, and when I did plug them into portable devices, they proved adequate, probably in no small part thanks to that ambient noise reduction. Comfortwise, you definately know they're on your head; it's inherent to the design. However, as noted I did watch movies with them on without any major complaints. Since they died I later obtained a pair of Grado SR225s. More accurate? Probably. More enjoyable to listen to? Not really. Do I miss the noise reduction? From time to time.

Some are, and as I've conceeded, those require something more robust than a point of use surge protector. However, smaller surges can still be rather destructive to electronic equipment, especially over time. Such surges may be below the (relatively high) clamping capacity of your whole house protector, but be caught by the point of service protector. Do you prefer if Siemens, another reputable brand you mentioned, explains it? http://www.sea.siemens.com/us/Products/Residential-Electrical/Product/Surge-Protection/Pages/Surge_Protection_at_Home_Implementing_the_Right_Line_of_Defense.aspx "The second line of defense is the point of use. Here, homeowners can reinforce the protection provided by a point-of-entry protection device by installing surge protectors (strips) that plug into grounded wall receptacles where sensitive electronic equipment is located. These devices defend electronic components against surges from outside, and internally generated transient events (surges) that travel through AC power lines and phone, data, and coaxial lines. The plug-in protectors generally have much lower limiting voltages than entry protectors, and provide better protection for electronic equipment." Because unfortunately your link only takes me to http://www.protectiongroup.com/Home which is simply a home page with no pertinent information. Seems to be a recurring habit with you, a lot of dead end links with nothing to back up your blathering. IEEE numbers with no citation were provided. Conversely I provided a direct quote from a senior IEEE member stating that both whole house surge protectors and point of use surge protectors were recommended. So once again, I challenge you. Give me a citation from a verifiable, credentialed, third party source saying how plug in surge protectors are nothing but a giant scam. If you can't do this, I have nothing else to say. Goodnight troll.

And what kind of question is this? Why would Dr. Cohen mention plug-in protectors at all if every appliance was adequately protected already? He specifically stated a multi-tiered approach is necessary for the best possible protection, and part of that approach was plug-in protectors.There is no real way to misconstrue this. Tell you what, you keep posting paragraph after paragraph. Why don't you try posting a link to a reputable source comparable with Dr. Cohen or even HowStuffWorks which explains why plug in protectors are a waste of money, and provide absolutely no protection that isn't already built into appliances/computers/etc. I'm not talking about some anonymous internet paper, but something by a verifiable source with appropriate credentials. I want to see something like how Audioholics busts speaker wire. Otherwise it's a lot of hot air and no substance.

It can average to $50 per appliance; a $45 APC unit that accommodates my TV, receiver, subwoofer, cable box, DVD player, and Playstation gives me a more palatable price per device protected. I probably have the skills to do so, but lets be realistic here. We're talking about something where a professional touch wouldn't hurt, and the majority of people would likely turn to an electrician. In either case, it takes a time or money cost, versus just plugging in a conventional protector. And yet Dr. Richard Cohen of the IEEE still recommends a plug in protector along with a whole house protector. Why? If they are simply not necessary with the addition of a whole house system, why would he still make that suggestion? $2000? No. But I don't see it as a great waste to spend say $100 to protect the most vulnerable and expensive pieces of electronics. Curious. The way I read the quote was that the two methods complement each other, and that one does not take the place of the other.

One other thought: It seems to me this analysis is faulty. Yes, a "whole house" protector can be had for $50. However, it also seems that I would have to hire someone to actually install said protector, driving up the cost. Moreover, that $45 MSRP protector can obviously accomodate more than one device.

Counterpoint: http://www.ask-the-electrician.com/whole-house-surge-protector.html "According to Dr. Richard Cohen, a Senior Member of the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE), “The importance of tiered protection cannot be underestimated. Lightning and surge protection experts from IEEE, the National Institute of Standards and Technology, and the Electric Power Research Institute have known for years that the combined use of quality protectors at the building entrance, and appropriate plug-in protectors at the point of use can virtually eliminate all damage from lightning and surges. This knowledge is critical, but has not yet been broadly distributed. For this reason, the IEEE has designated a special group, which I am leading, to prepare an Application Guide on residential protection." Providing protection at the point of entry requires an electrician-installed point-of-entry surge arrestor where power enters the residence from the utility. Surge arrestors limit surge voltage by conducting large surge currents safely to ground. However, because the voltages that pass through surge arrestors are sometimes too large to protect electronic equipment, they should be supplemented by plug-in Transient Voltage Surge Suppressors (TVSSs) where the equipment is located." Emphasis added obviously mine. Thoughts?

Looks like I might need to eat a little crow here. Happens from time to time. Upon further research, westom is right...to an extent. Actually even HowStuffWorks doesn't claim surge protectors can defend against a direct lightning strike, as stated "On the other end you have systems costing hundreds or even thousands of dollars, which will protect against pretty much everything short of lightning striking nearby." Of course, that doesn't validate westom's claims that most surge protectors are utterly worthless either; just that they do obviously have limits.

Meh, I'm done arguing. It's one thing to say APC's marketing is mostly hype. It's a whole other ball of wax to say the whole industry is out to bilk us, and even benign entities like HowStuffWorks/Discovery are out to sucker us into the scam. Heck, even the "mythbusters" at Audioholics never got into busting this one like they do with most things that are objectively full of BS.

Clearly. Citing a website owned by Discovery (and what I would define as a credible source) that is dedicated to illustrating in easy to understand terms how things work was foolish of me. Obviously they are nothing compared to the knowledge of westom. Obviously. The charlatans. Link doesn't work. Try again? Another dead link. Through the safety ground via the MOVs, if you had bothered to read the article.

Lets just get right to the point shall we: Courtesy of How Stuff Works, a Discovery Company. http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/surge-protector.htm Is that hearsay as well?

"SurgeArrest components such as MOVs and Thermal fuse ensure instantaneous reaction to lightning strikes and wiring faults. If the surge components are damaged due to power spike or over voltage, excess power cannot reach your equipment. Unlike the APC SurgeArrest products, most surge suppressors continue to let power through even after circuits have been damaged, leaving your equipment exposed to other damaging surges." Seems like they claim some semblance of protection. http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=P11GTV&tab=features You are responding to my first post on this thread. Of course it is. Would you lay out a blanket financial guarantee of your product without any conditions whatsoever? Ahh the beauty of heresay over the internet.

If we're being honest with ourselves...at that price point, not very important at all. For $45 or less you can obtain an APC surge protector that also rejects line noise; it comes with a lifetime warranty, and an equipment protection policy of $150,000. For $250 or less you can obtain an appropriately sized APC UPS system that rejects line noise, regulates, voltage, provides surge protection, and obviously a battery backup; it has a 3 year repair or replace warranty, and also has an equipment protection policy of $150,000. So what does $400 buy you? From what I can tell, a really fancy looking exterior.

Not at all. Frequency response is only one aspect of the sound you hear. Things like dynamic range, distortion, and dispersion are every bit as important. Auto-calibration is generally made to compensate for any major response aberrations the room might present. It won't make a bad speaker great nor will it make a great speaker bad. Realistically speaking, if you think it improves the sound, keep in; otherwise, ditch it.

Fortunately, both the dog and I are housebroken. Don't get me wrong; I'm not ashamed of it by any means, or I would not have posted the pictures.

A little more Klipschy:

I don't doubt that under certain circumstances that the XPA-1 might be a worthwhile upgrade. However, the XPA-5 is no slouch by any means and is easily capable of driving a pair of RF-7s to reference levels and beyond without suffering any dynamic compression in a home environment. However, if maseline has a relatively noisy, untreated room, he could reap great improvements in sound quality and perceived dynamics simply by addressing those issues, and potentially at little cost I might add. And of course, if bass is an issue, he needs to look towards his subwoofer(s). Optimal placement can yield great dividends, as can upgrading to more powerful models.

It's his favorite part of the house; he's got food, toys, and he's allowed on the furniture down there. Not bad for under 20 bucks at K-mart I say. Made in the USA even. Thanks! You know what they say about great minds! Thanks! Yours isn't so bad either! []