bracurrie

Bose, yuk! Now I am going to have to change things. No problem I know you are trying to help. Thanks. I would love to just go for the K402 but I am going to apply what I have learned from this thread first.

Fine looking dog. Got two here and three cats. Momma can't stay away from the shelter.

The problem is the room and the horn. I do not know why but this placement sounds great IMO. Because I am listening to the horns off axis I boosted the output to them 2db and boosted from 5k out with a high shelf a little may another 2db. I know it's strange to quote yourself but I still have not heard a good reason why the speakers are pointed like that ? I don't see how any speaker would sound best like that, if they do there are serious problems. Just asking

Chris - Thanks for your thoughts. It was your posts that motivated me to try using the corners. I will try again when I have the materials to control the first reflection point. Brad

Thanks for your thoughts. You nailed it. The placement of the panels was a guess. The room contained all hard surfaces and was harsh to my ear so I thought they would help. With my limited acoustics knowledge it seemed like a good idea at the time. They did deaden the room somewhat and made 85-95 db listening less stressful. But no measurements were made before or after so who knows. I don't think they hurt. I do know that sometimes acoustics plays tricks on us. I tried the 45 degree placement on a lark and it seems to work for imaging.

I have always found this community of enthusiasts helpful and humorous. I have been on this fun with Jubilee clones 2 way ride for over two years. This is a long post to set up my question. This last spring I came to the conclusion that my JBL 2435 drivers with DIY tractrix horns were holding me back. So I sprung for the Faital HF200 with Fastrac 400 horns. Wow what a difference that made, but I was still not hearing a good image. I rolled through any number of crossover settings and even calculated the proper time delay all with a mini DSP. I tried a number of speaker placements and settled for a setup that had the speakers at a roughly break the width into thirds distance apart with about a ten degree toe in. Funny thing happened next, one of my old Adcom amps caught a cold and went haywire, and when I put my Forte IIs in until my amp was repaired I suddenly heard that imaging I was looking for. I attributed it to a clean back wall with nothing in the corners. About that time my Van Alstine SS amp that I had ordered a month earlier arrived. Oh JOY! Now I had good imaging and a very clean sound. Either the AVA amp is really good or the Adcoms were tired. I found a Hafler 220 that had been modified by Frank Van Alstine in the late 1980s, retired my remaining Adcom 535 and put the Fortes away. While using the AVA for the tweeter horns I again set out to find imaging. I learned how to use the EQ feature of REW to set some filters to take the edge off the Jub clone bass bins and tame some uglies from the room. I found that 500hz was not too low to use as a crossover point and with a mix of filters set by REW and a couple set by ear I was beginning to hear it all, but not imaging. Argh! Then in these forums I read where Jubs and Khorns both belonged in their room corners to get excellent imaging results. (Also there was the K402 horn that has been acclaimed as very important to imaging and tonal balance with the Jubilee.) When I tried my Jub clone/Fastrac 400 in the corner toed in at a 45 degrees there was a big hole in the middle. So I put on my imaging reference CD Miles Davis Kind of Blue and started moving them out of the corner towards each other six inches at a time until the hole disappeared. But I left them toed in at 45 degrees. I then marveled at the imaging. [] See attached picture. The downside to my setup is that the Fastrac 400 while still very good still has a defined sweet spot, but listening to them off axis with a small amount of added boost above 5000hz has given me a system that images beautifully with great high frequency balance. Also for the first time the system sounded equally good in my listening chair or at my desk near the back of the room. Finally there after two years of fun. I need to thank Dave at Fastrac and Bob Crites who have made suggestions and discussed strategies. After all this my question is this. Would K402 horns make it possible for the speakers to be in the corner and not have the imaging hole in the middle?

I just had my ears cleaned and wow what a difference! I can't wait the ear wax builds back up so I can AB the difference.

Got a little carried away.

Dave, Congrats on your Sony R2R. I grabbed a Revox B77 4 track and refurbished it about a year ago. Its remarkable how well it does even at 3 3/4. How do you decide on good R2R tapes on Ebay? I am looking for those R2R tapes that were created with mastering optimized for R2R. Also, are you digitizing the R2R tapes or other sources? All the best. Brad

Yep. I tried the silver wire and it sounded refined. Sorry to pile on.

Did you mod the crossovers?

After hooking up a new power amp for my tweeter horns I discovered that I had a hum problem. Because I am using an Eliptrac 400 with a Fatail driver I was curious how much of the annoying noise I would hear in some not so efficent speakers. So I dug out my Advent 2s and adjusted my miniDSP to hear them full range and the hum was barely noticable. I then decided to run them crossed over just like the horns. After adjusting the gain down on the bass bins I went back to work pushing paper around my desk while listening to Bruce Hornsby. As some of you know the piano on "The Way it Is" opens the track, well I took note that the mid range on this weird setup was quite pleasing and smooth. Now there is no comparison with the Eliptrac or the K402 for that matter, however it was pleasing enough to listen to several other jazz and then rock CDs while I finished my work. Less than ideal? Yes, but not harsh. I do look forward to getting that amp fixed. [:@]

I would agree that the Crites crossover board was a signifigant upgrade. In addition I installed the Crites tweeter upgrades and that really "opened up" the speaker. I haven't touched the midrange, so my question to cgregory is what was the motivation to install the Klipsch titanium? I just installed a Van Altine Synergy 240 power amp and my initial impressions are very favorable. I will post on that subject later. But with the Forte IIs its making it more difficult to go back to my bi-amped Jub clone with Eliptrac - Fatail speakers. Its good to have options.[]

My Fortes come out of the closet for some reason or another every six months or so. Its getting more and more difficult to put them back away.

I have purchased a Van Alstine DAC that requires S/PDIF digital data input. So I need a Windows compatible USB converter. Does anyone have any recommendations?

Well I was guessing 3/4 of the travel, but maybe not that much. Its the relative level of the aux devices relative to the phone that got me post the original question. Seems that my next step is to check the tubes. BTW is there any way to replace the very hot resistor in this unit with something else that runs cooler? Thanks Brad

Some time ago, Apple made it possible to download again music "purchased" in MP3 format with no DRM. Once secured, simply back it up and keep it. DRM is the problem and I avoid it at all cost. Brad

Muel, Thanks for the thoughts. Did some RCA cable swaps and eliminated that as a problem, fortunately I have two to play with that fit the Scott. Tried the Scott direct to the CD player with same results. But that didn't surprise me any as the SP6 isn't doing anything on line level sources it switches. But the phono preamp on the SP6 is much better than the Scott IMO so I am going to stay with the SP6 front end. My local tech mentioned that I shouldn't be concerned with the volume knob at 12 or even 2 to get to 80db

Thanks for the suggestions. I was using the tape outs on the SP6. Unless I am using phono I do not even have to turn it on. I took your suggestion and moved from the EXTRA to the PLAYBACK labeled inputs and doesn't really sound different. I wish the RCA jacks were not so tight together on the Scott.

Using my Audio Research SP6 as a front end and using the record outs as inputs to the 222. The phono preamp in the SP6 pushes good gain, but the AUX 1 and 2 have devices connected to them that are for some reason weaker. Enjoying it all the same. Thanks. Brad

I am having one of my two amps repaired so I dug out my Forte IIs. Since I was rewiring anyway I decided to dig out my Scott 222c that I had refurbished last year. While the sound is quite good, surprising good actually , I am not getting the volume I like with out turning the amp up to 3/4 on the knob. This begs the question: Which speakers would be the best match for this tube amp? Brad

What do you mean by "rising response" and what is ESR? Sorry to be so non technical. Brad

Ultimately, if you are true to yourself, winning without cheating is much more satisfying. When you honor yourself, you are much more likely to treat others honorably. Its also smart. [H]

I will look up Floyd Toole's book, when I have time to educate myself better. Well after thinking about it overnight and talking with Mr. Van Alstine I ordered a Synergy 240 small box. He had recently tested a Phase Linear 400 and commented that it had great low end. Ok, cool. I'll use his for the high end to replace my ancient Adcom 535 which has lost its edge, if it ever had one. BTW anyone want my braided Cat 5e speaker wires: 24 conductors x 2. Took hours to make from an old networking project excess stock. Cost of shipping and they are yours.

I love the message that you do not have to spend a fortune to get great sound from your stereo system. http://www.avahifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=191&Itemid=158