Beechnut

Hey all, Fleshing out the floorplan for a 40' x 20' ILF (Independent Living Facility) that will be upstairs in a metal building (40' x 80') on the farm. Basically an apartment with 1 Bed, 1 Bath, Kitchen, and Home Theater. And the latter is what I want to optimize, and build the rest of the 800 sq. ft. floor plan around. I'm thinking a 15' by 20' room. Goals would be a false front stage, acoustically transparent screen and 2 rows of seating. Looking at putting the front stage on the 15' wall so it gives me room to put the false wall in and the first row of seating around the 11' mark, giving me room for a second row. Currently have a full RF7II HT setup. BUT....I'd love to move to K402s up front with some sort of hybrid setup or 2 Jubilees and a Jubscala for the center channel. And, the ability to use the Jubilees for a 2 channel setup in the future. Question: Is a 15' span across the front wall large enough to accommodate 2 Jubilees and a Jubscala? Subwoofer note: Wasn't intending to do an IB setup, but I could be convinced I guess. Was really looking at Dual SVS subs. Not sure if an IB setup would work in this framework.

Day 1 in the books. Went with 2 Cinema F20s for ease of build, cost and smaller cabinet. I did precut all my panels, against the advice of Carl. (I'll get smart by doing stupid....) 1 layout is done and both baffles are cut. Did work out the best way to install the hurricane nuts on some scrap wood so that I'll be prepared for that. I didn't want to crack open a tube of PL, just for those, and have to try to seal it back up until I'm ready to do final assemble. So tomorrow is layout 2, and assemble dry getting all the pocket wholes in place. Thanks for all the inputs!!

Yes. I don't want to skimp if I'm jumping into a big DIY project like this. I can handle the larger cabinets with my setup (hidden behind the entertainment center that has to decorative nick-nack towers on the side). Just want to layout the facts in case someone hast he same question I do. Certainly the F-20 is more budget conscious and has a smaller footprint. What drivers are people recommending for the F-20 recently?

So I'm doing this as I'm trying to decide which DIY subwoofer to go after, as it applies to my lifestyle and restrictions. Leaning lilwrecker right now. I'm going to build 2. My life can accommodate a large cabinet. Once all is said and done...I don't think cost will be that different between a TubaHT, THTLP, F-20, or lilwrecker. Any of these DIYs will need a separate amp. I will have Audyssey XT32 so I don't think I HAVE to have DSP. I'm a long ways from having a final house, so the will be moving with me and need to fit through doors =+) Gotta have a side that is 27" or smaller in my guess to be safe. So again, leaning lilwrecker. (only recently ran into this build or I may have steered away from a THTLP) The 1st post is to help flesh out the vs in the two build. Some more parameters to update would be: Cost for wood Cost for different driver options Cost for recommended amplifiers Estimated Build Time Recommended tools listing etc. More to follow. Appreciate your help and insight.

So in researching DIY HT subs, I've looked a lot at both of these lilmike designs. Here are some of the "vs" comparisons I've come up with. (Help me finish fleshing this out) Frequency Extension: - lilwrecker: tuned to 17Hz - F-20: tuned to 22Hz Dimensions: - lilwrecker: 70" tall x 28 1/2" deep x 25 3/8" wide - F-20: 60" tall x 20" deep x 29.375" wide Material List: - lilwrecker: 4 sheets of 3/4" plywood - F-20: 2 and a quarter sheets of 3/4" plywood DIY difficulty: (my w.a.g. from reading the threads) - lilwrecker: 5 of 10 - F-20: 3 of 10 Divers: (Prices as of Sept 2015) - lilwrecker: ----- Alpine SWS-15D2 - ($129.95) - Amazon link ----- Alpine SWS-15D4 - ($129.95)- Amazon Link ----- Kicker CVX152 - ($399.95) - Sonic Electronix Link ----- Kicker CVX154 - ($399.95) - Sonic Electronix Link - F-20 ----- Dayton Audio RSS390HF ($172.69) Parts-Express link Amplifiers (suggested) - lilwrecker ----- Berhinger iNUKE NU3000DSP - ($279.99) - Amazon link - F-20 ------ Not sure

Thanks for chiming in all. Carl I hear you about the F-20. Honestly I'm still on the fence. Having the plans for the THT and THTLP certainly shows how much simpler the F-20 is to build than the THT versions. More to follow on this. Time to stop being a dreamer and be a do'er. No better way to learn. Regardless, I'll be adding some new tools to the ol' shop. Router being the main one on the list.

Looking at the plans, when you build the width (or height not length) can you go anywhere from 15" = 36"? Idea is to build 2 to flatten out the room response. From what I've gathered, a 72" Long, 18" High, 36" wide should be apples to apples with a 36" x 36" x 36" Tuba HT. Many steer away from the 36" cube of the Tuba HT because they can't get it through the doors in their house...usually some of the interior doors. I'm many years from a final home so the 72" x 18" x 36" THTLP seems good for me as I move around from place to place. Should be able to manage that in any home. I'll be able to either stand them up behind my entertainment center towers, or lay them down, stacked on top of each other, behind it. Could also use them as risers it seems.

Definitely one of those deals you come across often Glad it all worked out.

Youth, Sorry to hear about this. Just recently returned mine for the dreaded HDMI board repair. It went out while I was overseas. Couldn't really walk through all the troubleshooting with the wife over the phone, to come to that conclusion. So she just used TV speakers till I came home. My unit (TX-NR3008) was a refurbished unit when I purchased it in...2010 I think. So 4-5 years on it. Customer service was a quick turn around (like your experience) and almost no cost to me but time. (And fuel cause the nearest fedex shipping center was and hour away) Anyways, throwing my experience into this thread. Still love it for the features and the GUI. It's just very simple to program and navigate. The main reason I stepped up to the 3008 was because of XT32 and it's ability to calibrate 2 subs. As you know, 2 subs is just night and day different so I wanted software that would make that as seemless as possible. Would I go Onkyo again?? It's not out of the realm of possibility. Price point vs features is hard to beat. And I only use it as a pre/pro.

Lol, (You tossed this up as I was typing) Step up to the 828 because it has pre-outs for all 7.2 channels. That's the big difference between the 727.

Here is some advice, Get one with PRE-OUTS for an amp! If you hang around here long enough, you will be tempted into adding an amplifier to your system. If you don't have pre-outs, adding an amp isn't an option, so you will have to buy a new receiver. I just did an install using an Onkyo TX-NR828, 3 RB-81s, 4 RS-52s & 2 SVS PC12NBs. The 3 amps I used are Behringer A500 (which I wouldn't recommend but they are inexpensive). If I A/B'd that model Onkyo vs my own...I bet I couldn't tell a difference. It's $599 on Prime, is 7.2 (w/preouts) and the very excellent Audyssey XT32. http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-NR828-7-2-Channel-Wireless-Receiver/dp/B00CILJB0E/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1420215963&sr=1-1&keywords=onkyo+tx-nr828

Bryant, You can get an Onkyo TX-NR828 that has 7.2 preouts and runs Audyssey XT32, which will calibrate two subs, for $599. http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-NR828-7-2-Channel-Wireless-Receiver/dp/B00CILJB0E

Great tip on the PL. And I'll take the advise on NOT pre-cutting the panels. Did you end up doing bracing? Lilmike says he wasn't to worried about it since it was a house speaker (not a PA system) and he used 13 ply plywood. I'd think MDF would more rigid and structurally sound...and less likely to need bracing than ply. Am I off base on that? Don't really desire any wood grain look, (like staining the ply) So I guess material doesn't matter on finish if I'm just going to bondo everything for a smooth foundation.

I'm on the fence of just using a semi-gloss black and urethane finish, or something industrial like duratex.

Carl, Would you recommend MDF over Ply? I do like the idea of no end grains to cover up. Also, I have a Kreg Jig. Would you recommend doing the pocket hole method again? From my other projects, they make some pretty serious joints. How did you clean up the squeeze out of the PL? Sand it off?

How about a different stand alone Tuner that you can plug the OTA antenna into, that will do the channel selecting for you? Basically, it's just like the tuner in your TV, but a stand alone device that you can plug into a different source on your AVR. Like a cable tv box, except the source is your OTA antenna. Here are a couple examples. I have no experience with any of them...The thought just came to mind as another way to solve your problem, and they do make them. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/TV-Antennas-Tuners/ci/5192/N/4289363875 ViewTV AT-163 ATSC Digital TV Converter Box and Media Player @ $34.95 http://www.amazon.com/Mediasonic-HW180STB-HomeWorx-Converter-Function/dp/B00G5RXM16/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1419524079&sr=1-1&keywords=tv+tuner Mediasonic HW180STB HomeWorx HDTV Digital Converter Box with Media Player Function, Dolby Digital and HDMI Out @ $28.98

His statement in the 3rd sentence of "To do this you will need to ‘unground’ the offending piece of equipment." is misleading. Neutral/Return & Ground are bonded to the same point creating multiple paths to ground, in case there is a failure in one of the paths. Having two wires does not "unground" the equipment. It's impossible for A/C voltage to even work if there is no path to ground. He kinda goes into showing he understands this in the last paragraph, by explaining how he has solved his own ground loop problems. The statements are misleading how he pairs them together.

Safety is important. That's why I'm glad BiC came out with the safety lighter. You can never be too safe. Thank you industry Gurus and federal government!

What happens when you remove the input cable from the AVR, (with it still plugged into the sub) does it still hum? If it still hums, take the input cable off of the sub and then see what happens. Still hums, certainly a sub problem. If there is no hum with just the sub turned on, then the sub isn't the source. If there is a hum with the sub turned on and the input cable plugged into the sub, but not the AVR...cable problem. After testing all the above, If it hums with the input cable plugged in (to both sub and AVR), sub turned on and AVR turned OFF, something silly in the AVR. Some ideas to help troubleshoot. Hope that was clear as mud

Andy, I'm in the same camp with you on my understanding. The extra safe grounding from the 3-wire systems is great for safety, and I know that doesn't mean that 2-wire is unsafe. Multiple paths to ground can become problematic for audio and radio systems. I know a few Ham operators, in efforts to reduce RFI (radio frequency interference) and ground loops, they have power circuits in their house that have their own panel, which nothing else is plugged into but their radio equipment. They take great care to ensure there is only 1 path to ground. The cheaper way to do it is to run your gear off a battery bank system. In my theater equipment, there is a very very small hum that I can only hear if I shut off the A/C in the house, and get about a foot from the speaker when the system is on, with no audio playing. If it bothered me, I'd chase after the source. I might notice it if I had a dedicated room with room treatments.

Ground loops can cause hum's in your system. If you don't hear any hum that is bothering you, then don't change a thing. The OP wanted to share his cheap solution to fixing a ground loop that was causing and audible hum that was annoying.

Why does my Onkyo receiver have a 2 wire power cable instead of a 3 wire?

Youth, I had about 2 weeks at one time where the wife and kiddo where out of the house. I brought the LaScalas in from the garage and put them just outside my RF-7ii's. Did some AB comparisons (not scientific mind you, just my ears) and my ears could tell no lie. The LaScalas won out for me. I'd never experienced imagining before that time either. It was so amazing to run 2 channel music and feel like you were surrounded by the concert! I have full confidence if I LCR'd them I'd be just as happy as you.

Big speakers aren't mainstream....so I can't see that being big news. 2 guesses. 1. A new line of home cinema speakers 2. Streaming music service

Rigel, Short answer is to follow the diagram that Youth linked from the manual. Jim, if you did use a surround speaker output, you could really only listen in All Channel Stereo. If it was set to Dolby or other formating, the sub wouldn't get near as much information to process into lows, as their isn't near as much sound going over the surrounds as the LRC channels. I'm afraid the better answer is it's time to upgrade your receiver. I had to bite the exact same bullet at one time. Bought a Pioneer VSX-1019AH and then figured out the benefits of a stand alone amplifier, and wanted one. The Pioneer didn't have pre-outs for an amp so I had to upgrade. So IF you go that route, get one with at least 5.1 pre-outs, and maybe 7.2 if you really want to extend the life of your receiver, as your home theater expands. This bug is addictive and most of us always want more. Or just want to tinker....