inMotionGraphics
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Posts posted by inMotionGraphics
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Yes, I highly recommend Home Theatre Guru's videos... looks like you're well on your way to audio nirvana... let us know how it turns out.
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In principle this shouldn't an issue, and might even work in your favour for cancelling room modes, but it could just as easily have the opposite effect. The MiniDSP HD will be an important addition to your setup so that you can time align and phase align the subs, however, just as important, or even more important, would be investing in a MiniDSP UMIK-1 USB calibrated mic or similar. This is so that you can measure your system using REW and integrate the subs with each other and with your system. This way you will be able to see exactly what the effect is of moving the sub to various positions in your room will be. It will be virtually impossible to guess what your room modes will be etc, especially with all those doors in your room and any other unique characteristics of your room.
Once you have a mic, you'll find many tutorials online for integrating 4 subs in a room, but if you don't find any, let us know and I'll find some for you.
But you can't go wrong with 4 subs, so you're already 95% of the way there... well done!
Brendon
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10 hours ago, Schu said:
very little discussion about sound clouds in the forum...
Sound Clouds? As in ceiling absorption?
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I would go with Roxul or any other similar mineral wool absorption over acoustic foam, although I'm not sure what acoustic foam you are referring to, as there are many types. My bigger concern however is what you mean by covering it with framed posters and glass negating the absorption. If you cover the absorption panels with anything that isn't acoustically transparent, such as a poster or glass, then it will definitely defeat the absorption. Glass is highly reflective of sound waves.
Unless you are planning on printing your posters on acoustically transparent material, which is definitely an option, but then I would have them done by a company that uses an acoustically transparent print technique to ensure best results.
I hope this helps.
Brendon
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I'd rather go with the bigger speakers if you can afford them, but that's just me, and I honestly can't tell you what the difference would be, but I'd prefer to avoid any possible doubt or regret later... 😉
I also just realized that you were talking about the 160's all along... for some reason I got it into my head that you were talking about the 600M's which are probably a much bigger speaker than the 160's. Sorry about that and any potential confusion that it might have created.
15 hours ago, Denix8 said:At one point I came to an idea to put one 160 under TV and one above and if they are both connected as center speaker maybe there will be a phantom center in the middle
This is actually a valid option, but not the way you envision it with both speakers connected to the same channel. You can try it, but you might not get the result you are looking for. On the other hand, some receivers like the Yamaha's come with an additional height effect center channel that can be used to tie two centers, one below and one above the screen into a phantom center (height wise), but I believe it results in a less accurate or clear center channel, which is not ideal for voices etc. For me, the horizontal MTM center below my TV works well enough that I wouldn't consider any of these other tricks... 🙂
Do some tests and let us know the outcome...
Good luck
Brendon
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This is an extremely difficult question to answer, but I'll try my best to add some value to the conversation... firstly, these are very real issues, so while there's no need to fear anything, it certainly warrants some very careful consideration and experimentation.
- Yes, the ideal situation is having 3 x exact same speakers at exactly the same height across your front stage, but it's not absolutely critical in my opinion, and most mere mortals are perfectly happy with the traditional horizontal MTM type center speaker under our TV's, unless you're building a dedicated theatre, in which case you'd probably go with an acoustically transparent screen.
- Yes, the 600M's are pretty big speakers, which exacerbates the distance from the center of the screen issue. I would not put it above the TV, but I would suggest you take one of your 600M's and place it below the TV, aimed up at your listening position and see how you like it. If it sounds ok to you for voices and not too distracting, then you can try panning from left to right to see if the lower center bugs you as sound pans across your front stage.
- If the above test doesn't yield satisfactory results, then I think you're better off going with the highest quality horizontal MTM center you can afford in the RP range. Your center still might be lower than the tweeters in your mains, but the overall form factor should be more practical.
- Despite horizontal speakers having a lobing problem as you move off axis, keep in mind that your TV is also going to yield inferior results as you move further off axis... but from my experience you should be perfectly fine up to at least 30 degrees off axis, which should give you decent sound and picture from your main seats.
- Lastly, keep in mind that the tweeters are more directional than the woofers, which is why I'd choose under the TV rather than above the TV in my second point above.
Don't over think it... there's no perfect solution, so run some tests, and then go with whatever brings a smile to your face and suits your budget best... 🙂
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On 5/20/2021 at 2:33 PM, Sam Marrocco said:
I can have them at ear-height, or raise them up to the ceiling but still directly L and R of the listener's head (a single couch)'
Between the two options you listed, I'd vote for ear level, however the ideal would be slightly above ear level for two reasons: 1) so that if you have more than one person sitting next to each other, the person/s on the outside don't get blasted from the side, and 2) so that people on the outsides don't block the sound to the main listening position with their head. You do mention a single couch, so perhaps none of these issues apply, but just something to consider.
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I think you're making a wise choice under the circumstances... while home gyms aren't for everyone and most get neglected after the novelty has worn off, I can attest that for me, building my home gym in January 2020 (totally unrelated to the pandemic that followed shortly afterwards), turned out to be one of the best investments I've made in recent years. I consistently hit it a minimum of twice a week, and it has done wonders for my kitesurfing and overall strength and fitness... 🙂
Now over to your questions:
16 hours ago, JDMezi said:What speaker, the RP500M or the RP600M pairs better with the RP-504C, especially for a room that size? These will go on (not in) built in cabinet counters to the left and right of fireplace. Is the improvement with going with a tower such as the RP6000F that significant? I am planning on picking up SW as well.
The RP-600M's are one of the best reviewed bookshelf speakers in their price range, so you can't go wrong with these. If it were me, I'd go with the 600's over the 500's so that you don't feel like you are missing anything later... but I'm sure the 500's are great as well. Both will pair well with the 504C (excellent center speaker btw), but again, I'd go 600 and be done with it... I can't say what the difference would be to the 6000F's, but if it were me, I'd skip the 6000's and go straight to the RP-8000F's for floorstanders. But you are totally fine starting with the 600M's for now... see below...
16 hours ago, JDMezi said:What about for the rear surrounds - RP500M, RP600M or the RP502S? I realize the 502S are meant to be surrounds, but have also read when Atmos is desired a more directional speaker may be a better choice. Thoughts?
RP-600M's if you can afford them, otherwise go with the 500's if it makes a big difference to your budget... not sure what the price difference is. Direct firing is indeed better for a Dolby Atmos setup, although there's nothing stopping you from using the 502's if you prefer.
16 hours ago, JDMezi said:What about an accompanying SW? I prefer to keep aesthetics similar and stick with the matching Klipsch SW.
SPL-150 which is their 15 inch sub... then later if you want to invest more to get more even bass distribution, I'd get a second SPL-150, but see how you do with one for now.
16 hours ago, JDMezi said:I would also like to add some Atmos speakers, perhaps wired in the ceiling, before we sheetrock. I’m thinking at least two initially for a 5.1.2 system. Any suggestions? We may do this at a later date, or add two more for a 5.1.4 system, but was hoping for some suggestions.
I've got a 7.2.2 setup which works great, but I can't help wondering what I'm missing without the additional two Atmos speakers, so if I were you, I'd go straight to the 4 atmos height speakers from the get go for a 5.1.4 setup. That way you won't find yourself cutting new holes and patching existing holes in a years' time... 🙂
Now, once you've got your 5.1.4 setup using the 600M's as front L & R and surrounds, you can see how all that works in your space. If you find you want a bit more down the line, you can move the front 600M's to rear surrounds and replace the fronts with RP-8000F's for a kick *** 7.1.4 setup, provided you invested in an 11 channel receiver or processor. You might also decide to add a second subwoofer before upgrading your front L & R... lots of choices, but at least no wastage along the way...
I hope this helps.
Brendon
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This definitely sounds like a challenging room, and room acoustics could be a huge part of why you aren't getting the results you were hoping for. The RP-504C is an excellent center speaker, so should give you excellent results and I definitely wouldn't replace it with in wall or on wall speakers...
Assuming money is not an issue, and it sounds like you are willing to spend a bit more to get great sound, this would be the ideal setup I would consider (and compare the sound and prices to the Goldenear and B&W's that you're auditioning):
Front L & R: RP-8000F
Center: RP-504C
Surround L & R: RP-600M (mounted on the side walls or on stands)
Dolby Atmos Height Front: PRO-180RPC or CDT-5800-C II in Ceiling Speakers
Dolby Atmos Height Rear: Either keep your 160 CDT or replace with another pair of whichever models of in ceiling speakers you chose above
Subwoofer 1: SPL-150
Subwoofer 2: Your existing "12 inch sub" or replace with another SPL-150
Receiver: Your RX-V6A is unfortunately only a 7.2 channel, so you'd be limited to a 5.2.2 setup, which is fine. In that case, scrap the Dolby Atmos Front recommendation and just use your existing in-ceiling speakers for overhead heights in a 5.2.2 setup, or upgrade the receiver to to a 9 channel receiver for a 5.2.4 setup.
If you end up investing in all of the above, or even switching to another high end brand, and you still aren't happy, then you're going to need to treat the room to some extent. This is a whole new can of worms that needs to be addressed... all the while keeping in mind that this is a functional space and not a dedicated theatre room, so room treatment needs to be within reason, otherwise the wife hating your floorstanders will be the least of your worries... 😉
Of course, there is another step up from the RP range, which would be the RF7iii's and RC-64 III center, but that gets really pricey, but just thought I'd mention that in case money is really not an issue... 🙂 But the RP range should be more than enough and good value for money...
Lastly, the above list is just my recommendation in an ideal world and where money is no issue... you need to adjust it as needed to fit your budget and personal taste and then take it from there... and if it turns out you like the Goldenear or B&W's more than the RP-8000's, then by all means, switch brands, but then switch all the speakers to the appropriate range from the new brand. Try not to mix and match where possible.
6 hours ago, Newbiet1234 said:I also cant really hear the ATMOS effect - maybe cause my ceiling is too high at 12 feet?
This bouncy Atmos effect speakers aren't very effective, especially if your room is too big or ceiling isn't ideal, which is why I'm recommending Floorstanders without the atmos modules and rather using in-ceiling speakers for Atmos.
I hope this helps...
Brendon
Update: I should also mention that the RP-600M's can be substituted for the equivalent in wall speakers from the RP range if esthetics or space is an issue for the surrounds. But I wouldn't use overhead speakers for the surrounds. Those should be used for Atmos heights.
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14 hours ago, Joey717 said:
Is the sale at the moment better than what would usually come around black Friday or is it about the same @ the $172
I'm afraid I can't help you with pricing questions, as I don't live in the US, and am not familiar with US pricing etc...
14 hours ago, Joey717 said:Also would using the key hole to mount to a wall affect the rear firing port?
Yes, it would, but I think the issue is negligible on surround and rear surround speakers, since they are mostly used for effects and ambiance etc. You'll also be crossing them over at around 80Hz, so you aren't depending on them to produce a lot of low frequency extension etc. For what it's worth, I've got my surrounds and rear surrounds mounted on the walls using the key holes. I just used very long screws to give them a bit of a downward tilt. I'm sure mounting them on adjustable mounts would be the better way of doing it, but not worth it in my opinion at the reference range of speaker models. If I upgraded my surround channels to RP-600's though, I'd probably be looking at some kind of mounting system to ensure I get the most out of those speakers... 🙂
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Awesome room and system @GPSDude. I'd love to see some photos and details of the complete setup when you're finished... 🙂
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3 hours ago, Joey717 said:
So I was wondering A) which would be best to upgrade first (surrounds, or rears) and then
what suggestion on speakers.
A) I would replace the Surrounds first... they usually get more information in my experience. Then later you can upgrade the rear surrounds.
B. This would depend on your budget. If you are planning on eventually upgrading to Dolby Atmos, then I'd suggest going with one of the bookshelf speaker models in the reference range.
I hope this helps.
Brendon
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Both will work, but the 600M (or direct firing speakers) are better in the day and age of Dolby Atmos and other 3D or object based sound formats for bed layer surround channels...
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7 hours ago, chetanh said:
1) L and R rear surround (RP-640D or CDT-5800-C II) or something else
The RP-640D look interesting, but I don't have any personal experience with these speakers... I did note that those aren't all active drivers, 4 of them are passive radiators... power handling is a bit lower than the RP-600's that one would normally use for surrounds, but probably not an issue. I would however not use in-ceiling speakers for surrounds if you can help it...
7 hours ago, chetanh said:2) L and R rear and front overhead.
Either the CDT-5800-C II or the PRO-180RPC (which is what I use) for Atmos height speakers.
7 hours ago, chetanh said:Well i may be able to get some decent condition used Rf7 III as well as RC 64 III s.
You definitely can't go wrong with the RF7iii's and the RC 64 center for the front stage... 🙂
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My pleasure Fero. I look forward to hearing how it all works out for you...
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15 hours ago, Fero said:
How will i wire the 3 front Klipsch- 8060FA-2-way FS SPKR W/DBY. will i connect the center channel from the receiver to one of these speakers ?
Sorry, I'm reading my emails in reverse clearly... yes, center channel output of receiver will go to the main binding posts of one of the 8060FA's, then left to another one and right to the third one... don't connect anything to the binding posts for the Dolby Atmos modules... does this clear that up for you?
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15 hours ago, Fero said:
what are your comments on the below set up ?
Speaker Qty Placing Klipsch- 8060FA-2-way FS SPKR W/DBY 3 Front Excellent choice for Front Left, Center, Right, but as I mentioned in a previous response, I wouldn't use the up-firing atmos modules (just leave them disconnected)... if I remember correctly, you said you already have these speakers, which is great, use them. But if you're going out and buying them, then just get the RP-8000F's instead... same speaker but without the up-firing Atmos modules.
15 hours ago, Fero said:Klipsch - RP280FA DOLBY ATMOS Front SPKR 2 Back Tower
No issue with this if you already own the speakers, but as with the above, I would not use the up-firing Atmos modules. Also, I think the Surround (or side surround as you called it in your list) is more important than the rear surround, so consider using these as the surrounds instead if they fit in with the layout and design of your room. If they're too big for the room space wise, then sell them and replace with the RP-600M's.
15 hours ago, Fero said:Klipsch RP-500M Bookshelf Speaker -- pair 1 Surround Side Speaker
We call this the "Surround" channel, but yes, they usually go on the side next to or slightly behind the main listening position on the side walls. As mentioned above, consider putting the RP-280's here, or replace them with RP-600M's. Then use the RP-500M's as your "Rear Surrounds".
15 hours ago, Fero said:Klipsch SPL -150 2 Front Corners
Excellent choice.
15 hours ago, Fero said:CDT-5800-C II 4 Front Ceiling - 2
Back Ceiling - 2No issues with this, these are what most people use... but you can also use the PRO-180RPC for this purpose if you don't already have the 5800's. I only have personal experience with the PRO-180RPC. Check the price differences perhaps, and choose from there... and maybe also ask your Klipsch dealer which model they would recommend and why.
15 hours ago, Fero said:Marantz - SR8012 1 Receiver
Excellent choice, although I don't have personal experience with Marantz, but I know many that love them... 🙂
I hope this helps.
Brendon
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My one PRO-180RPC in-ceiling speaker arrived with a similar crease, although not even as long and noticeable as yours... I sent my local dealer a photo, and without hesitation or question, our Klipsch distributor sent a replacement. There is no doubt Klipsch will replace this speaker for you, so contact your dealer.
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Sorry for the duplicate post... if a moderator can delete this, that would be great... couldn't see how to delete it myself... 🙂
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On 3/26/2021 at 1:55 PM, Fero said:
the theatre room is new construction, after the set up is decided only then the interior along with wiring will be completed
In that case, I would seriously consider doing in-ceiling speakers for Atmos.
On 3/26/2021 at 1:55 PM, Fero said:also we are planning on doing behind screen speakers any thoughts on that?
is that a good approach ?
Yeah, that is good way to do it, but in that case, you could do your LCR as three exact same speakers. In other words, instead of the 504C, get another exact same speaker as your left and right main speakers so that they are all perfectly match timbre, height and performance wise...
I also noticed in a reply further down that you want to do in-wall. If that's the case, you might want to look at Klipsch's THX CINEMA SERIES or their PROFESSIONAL SERIES from their custom install section. These speakers might be better suited for an infinite baffle setup than your floor standing speakers.
On 3/26/2021 at 1:55 PM, Fero said:what receiver would be your personal choice ?
I'm a Yamaha fan and use the RX-A3070, but you would need an additional external amplifier to power the front left and right channels in a 7.2.4 setup, as it has 11 channels of processing but only 9 are amplified. For this reason I didn't recommend it to you, as the Denon and Marantz's you are considering will give you all 11 channels powered. I don't have personal experience with Denon or Marantz receivers, so I'll leave it to others to recommend which one to go with.
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Funny you should bring this up, as Audioholics just mentioned this video in a recent video they posted... Gene reckons this guy took his measurements way to close to the speaker, not giving the horn and bass drivers enough distance to blend properly. Audioholics on the other hand found this speaker to be the best measuring Klipsch speaker that they've measured so far.
So I think it's safe to say you can ignore the above video, and rather go with an unbiased review from someone that isn't trying to sell you an expensive upgrade to fix a problem that isn't there:
https://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/klipsch-rp-8000f
Or this...
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9 hours ago, Fero said:
okay I can buy the ceiling speakers between these two which one should I get ??
PRO-180RPC IN-CEILING or CDT-5800-C II IN-CEILING
9 hours ago, Fero said:keeping price apart personally which one would u choose and how many should I get ??
I haven't heard the CDT-5800-C II IN-CEILING myself, but it's what most people were using for Atmos over the past few years. However, when I contacted Klipsch support to ask them which in-ceiling speakers I should get that will work best with both their RP and RF ranges, they recommended the PRO-180RPC IN-CEILING's to me, so I went with those. And when I was looking up the CDT-5800-C II IN-CEILING on their website to get the exact model number before I replied to you, I couldn't find it on their website, so either I was looking in the wrong category, or these are being discontinued. It doesn't mean you can't get them anymore, but I definitely know for sure that the PRO-180RPC IN-CEILING are a much newer model. I'm love my PRO-180RPC IN-CEILING and can definitely recommend them for pairing with Klipsch's top of the range lines.
But @JefDC makes a very good suggestion, before you run out and buy any new speakers, rather set up what you have already, including the upfiring Atmos modules to see what you like and don't like about your current quiver. That way you also have some reference points to compare your upgrades to. But I am very confident you will end up preferring in-ceiling speakers to bouncing Atmos modules, provided you are willing to cut holes in your ceiling... 😉
9 hours ago, Fero said:I’ll try and get 4 - RP-600M
I have one pair of the Klipsch RP-500M already should I use tat ??You can most definitely use the RP-500M's and you should use them rather than wasting money replacing them with a pair of 600M's. So I would use the 600M's as surrounds, and then your 500M's as rear surrounds.
But there are very experienced guys that have been using Klipsch speakers far longer than I have giving you great advice here, so I suggest you consider all the different recommendations and then choose the rout that makes the most sense for your situation and budget... 🙂
9 hours ago, Fero said:which would be the best ever CENTER speaker, I remember from your previous post that CENTER speaker does most work and to spend the best on it. Let me know I want to get the best Center speaker
The center speaker is definitely the most important speaker in a home theatre setup in my opinion, followed by the subwoofers... I do like me some good bass... 😉
The best center in the current Klipsch line up would be the RC-64 III I believe, but you only really need this one if you plan to upgrade your Main speakers to the RF-7iii line in my humble opinion... otherwise I think you'll be quite well served with the RP-504C, which would be the top of the line center for the RP range.
I hope this helps.
Brendon
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10 hours ago, Fero said:
Klipsch- 8060FA-2-way FS SPKR W/DBY - Pair
I believe these are the RP-8000F's but just with Dolby Atmos up firing modules on top. If that's the case, you can't go wrong with these bad boys, so I would keep these, but just don't connect the up firing Atmos modules. Instead, I would use in-ceiling speakers for the Dolby Atmos height channels, however if you don't want to install speakers in your ceiling, you could mount the Klipsch RP-140SA's high on the front and back walls for your Dolby Atmos height channels. You'll need a second pair of these if you want to do 7.1.4, or sell the RP-140SA's and get in-ceiling speakers: PRO-180RPC IN-CEILING or CDT-5800-C II IN-CEILING speakers.
10 hours ago, Fero said:Klipsch 5.25 2 way Bookshelf speaker - pair
I don't know this speaker...
10 hours ago, Fero said:Klipsch - RP280FA DOLBY ATMOS Front SPKR - Pair
You could use these as your surround speakers if you have the space, but since they include an up firing Dolby Atmos module again that you don't want to be using, I think it might make more sense to sell these, and get 4 x RP-600M's for your surrounds and rear surrounds...
Then you need a minimum of one subwoofer, but I would suggest you try and invest in two subs. Ideally, 2 x SPL-150 or the largest subs you can afford from SVS or other highly rated sub brands.
Nothing wrong with either of those receiver choices, they are both excellent from what I hear.
I hope this helps.
Brendon
Update: I forgot to add that I've ignored your budget and costs etc because I don't live in the USA, so I'm not familiar with your prices etc. But as @wvu80 says below, if you can afford it, you could sell the 2 pairs of towers you have, and go all in with the RF7 iii series and the RC-64 III center, which would be the ultimate, but they don't come cheap, at least not where I live... 🙂
I also just realized that you don't have a center speaker in your list. So you'll need the RC-64 III if you're upgrading to the RF7 series, or the RP-504C if you're sticking with the RP series...
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I cannot speak specifically for HBO max, as we don't have HBO Max in South Africa, but with streaming apps in general it will depend on what Blue-Ray player you have. If your player allows you to search for and install apps, and you can find and download the HBO Max app, then it's just a matter of installing it, purchasing a subscription and logging into your account on your player. However, if your player doesn't support the HBO Max app, then you'll need an external TV Box or stick like the ones you mentioned... make sure you get one that is known to work well with HBO max.
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what suggestion on speakers.
Contemplating Dolby Atmos 7.2.4
in Home Theater
Posted
Always a pleasure @Zen Traveler! 👍