Mallette

I'm a pencil headed music geek. If you hadn't explained, I'd not even gotten it. Anyway, though I've not been in this forum very long, I've been on listservs as long they've been around. Worst flaming and baiting I've seen on this one wouldn't throw anti-skate out of balance. This one is CIVILIZED. Have a good weekend yourself. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless

"Geeez..counterweight scales, cleaning products etc... makes a body wonder....how deep does the vinyl hole go?" Only as deep as you want, since you start ahead well ahead. Lp's are a tweakers paradise, due to the extraordinary complexity of all the factors that lead to the music. However, it is only as necessary as you feel it is. Like I say...it is good if it sounds good. A word about turntable stability. You can throw a lot of money at it, or you can either buy a lamp pedestal that is hollow or build a sturdy box. In either case, fill it with as much gravel as you can fit and you need not worry about resonance, etc. Done right, you can kick the pedestal during play and do nothing more than really hurt yourself. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless

You should get LOTS of advice on protractors, scales, azimuth, etc. Let me address record cleaning. As I've mentioned elsewhere, I have a Disc Doctor I use to dry and remove fluids. Works well, but overpriced considering what's in it. An innovative audiophile really should be able to devise an atttachement for a DustBuster that would work as well. Anyway, cleaning on the cheap(less than 5.00): One bottle of Palmolive or other PURE dishwashing detergent. One hospital or similar plastic pan deep enough to place a disk in edge on so that it will extend nearly to the label. One PERFECTLY CLEAN lint free wash cloth. I've several baby washcloths from my children that I've found very good for scrubbing. One or more lint-free cloths for drying. Old cotton T-shirts work for me. I use a very weak solution of detergent, and wet the disc by rotating it (I use my deft fingers for this, but you may find that a pencil or pen that will fit the hole is helpful) through the solution without wetting the label. I then gently rub the wet baby washcloth in the direction of the grooves until I find a Zen point that sez its clean. Rinse under the tap with the water running away from the label. If you've no vacuum, lay the disk on one drying cloth, hold it down and dry gently in the direction of the grooves. I've no doubt there will be those who object to the above in one or more areas...that's why we have a list. Basic rule: clean only when the disk is dirty. Cleaning by any method also removes lubricant and shortens ultimate disk life. I've NEVER damaged a disk using the above method, though I've lost several over the years to crappy commercial fluids...including outdated DiscWasher brand. Stuff broke down into something that adhered to the grooves, made the record unplayable, and was impossible to remove. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless

Fascinating. Am I seeing the speed right? Looks like the one on the left says 21/2. New one on me. 13/4ips was the standard "slow" speed. Suggest you give the heads a good scrubbing with 90% alcohol. Also, the tape, if it is as old as the machine, will be acetate and EXTREMELY brittle. Test the rewind/start etcetera with tape you don't mind losing. Whatever you do, do NOT attempt to stop a full speed reel with your hands. Some of these old machines go very fast and the reels become buzz saws. Nice find! Have some fun. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless

Seems I recall you saying you had around 5,000 discs? So 50 represents one in a thousand. Granted, I would not fly in an aircraft that crashed one in a thousand times, but I would forgive a turntable that won't play one in a thousand discs. I've a number of Edison and Columbia cylinders that don't play very well on my turntable. :-) Hmmm... Wonder if I could scan them on my flatbed, then write software to decode? Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless

Hard to tell which "it" you are referring to. Of course, heat is always an issue with VT equipment. However, sound without reels turning is definitely not a good thing. My first piece of gear capable of music repro was a Sears SS mono RR for which I paid 75.00. Put a "Cathedral Sound" spring reverb speaker on the external speaker output and "STEREO!" Hey, I've always had to make do on a budget... So what kind is the 200 pounder? Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless

"kinda surprised that the book did not have this in it... unless i over looked it." What were you referring to? As to your reels, you did not mention the brand/model of RR. A Wollensack model (I forget the exact designation at the moment) accounted for 3 of 4 mono RR machines in use for over 20 years as it became unbiqitous in the public schools and colleges. Generally indestructable, and all but the last few years production were VT based. If you can't make it work and are desperate to hear those tapes, let me know and we can arrange something. I am only 25 miles or so away. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless

Well, Greg, you started a thread without controversy that is absolutely fascinating in the concordance of all who were there: The only thing that didn't change with PWK was faith in his 'horns. Wish I'd been there when they took out the trash!!!! Gil: Of course, there was also the Elcaset, which had promise but no market. RCA also had a REALLY big cartridge (about 5"X8" or so if I recall) that also went nowhere fast. Before and during early 8 track, there was also the 4 track cartridge. It used the same mechanism still employed in quite a few radio stations for commercials. The head did not move as on the 8 track, and it was quite superior to them. Died a similar death to Beta. The main thrust of this thread has been PWK's obvious frustration with sources and source material. We all share it. His speakers are absolutely unforgiving. Unfortunately, even audiophiles will ascribe all manner of evil to the wrong source, especially if they have inherent bias (as we all do) to start with. One of the wonderful aspects of Klipsch ownership is not having to worry about the function of at least ONE aspect of your music chain. Thank God for PWK! I am sure he has already suggested that Gabriel set up a Khorn and take a break... Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless

MH: No question that my Sony Cd player sounds like caca. I transfer CD's to hard drive and play them through my sound card. Much better, but still not threatening to the P-4300. Cheapest CD players I've heard anything good about run (Rega Planet) 1500.00. My plan for digital is to get a Card Deluxe sound card. Less than 500.00 and compared by $tereophile reviewer to a 15,000.00 Mark Levinson DAC. Since all I need is a decent DAC (since I store my CD's on RDD), seems like the way to go for me budget wise. OTOH, the best CD deck in the world can't make up for all the sonic information that simply isn't there and can't be synthesized. Jeff: 300 free LP's! Get'em while nobody cares! That's the beauty of analog at the moment: damn near FREE music that we often paid up to 20.00 for when 20.00 was 100.00. Downside: If this person is a friend, he will hate you after he quits listening to the CD transfers after about 3 months of increasing ear starvation due to insufficient stimulation. Finally, let your ears be your guide, not the rantings of all us hard *** old farts. If it sounds good, it is good. Period. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless

"I dont think this type of rig will turn the diehard digital fan into anyone appreciating analog, to be honest." Hmmm...the guy who started this thread did so after spending 5 hours at my home Sunday listening to my P.O.S. Sony P-4300 DD TT with unknown vintage AT cartridge. He has ears in the 20's, a kicking system, and I did not get the impression he was just being polite. If I can get MUCH better performance for 300.00, why don't I do it? Simple. I intend to wait for that killer deal where I get a MUCH, MUCH, MUCH better TT off Ebay. I got my Khorns for 1677.00 delivered from Denver, so why not? In the meantime, this thing delivers damn good music and is not eating my LP's. Further, it delivers MUCH superior sound to my Sony CD deck, or any I've been exposed to (see above...I've not been exposed to many of quality). Believe me, I am not anti-digital. The best source machine I have is a Sony RM500 DAT deck. I do location recording when I can, and this thing grabs great sound. While I do not understand the technical side, this deck has some sort of 24 bit mode Sony calls Super Bitmapping (SBM). Skeptical at first, I've found it seems to really help. Even my best CD's transferred in the digital domain to it only sound marginally better than before (SBM only works A-D), but live stuff is awesome. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless

We're close enough philosophically to call it even. The PL-41 is definitely a good deal at the moment. If we still have a difference, it is probably the definition of "decent digital." I consider it out of my price range, well into the 5 figures. Below that, even a DD turntable with a M91 rules musically. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless

Hey Crash...don't be crushed. If it sounds good, it is good, and neither anything MH or myself can say can change that fact. MH: There is truth in all you say. However, none of it is true all the time, or for all listeners. I never heard in flutter or speed issues with the PL-610 except the rare occasion it lost lock completely. As to DD, certainly it is far less desirable than belt drive, but not cheap belt drive that is so flimsy as to fall apart, or belt drive that is worn and can't be replaced. My P-4300 Sony cost me 25.00 from a garage sale, and offers superior sonics to anything digital I own. Do I want to upgrade? You bet your boots...but money IS an issue to some of us. As to MC, you need to totally eliminate the TT as an issue before you are likely to hear the difference. As for me, I am not likely to ever be in that income level, so a good MM is likely to stay in my future. Now, Grado issues. I hear a lot of opinions about them. Not having had the opportunity to try them in a host of arms, I can only say I've never had an issue. My bet is that they will sound super on almost anything in the class we are talking about, i.e., Sony's, Pioneers, Duals, Denon's, etc. Would I put one in an SME arm? Probably not, but then the only way I'll ever have an SME arm is if I steal one. When I purchased my Signature, it was the first thing my wife ever mentioned as IMMEDIATELY sounding better than it's predecessor. Wife approval is more important to me than audiophile group approval. Joe Grado is no idiot. The Shure M91 can be found for almost nothing, yet large numbers of vinyl freaks absolutely swear by them. The Empire 800-range, espcially the 808, has developed a cult following. Why? Damned if I know...they must like the sound. Wonder where they get styli for them... Anyway, the point is that an audiophile on a budget who wants to get into vinyl shouldn't be made to feel it is pointless without spending megabucks. A hundred bucks on Ebay for the right deal will yield a TT/cartridge that will outperform all but the very highest dollar digital gear...which I can't afford anyway. Of course, that is pure opinion...but at least it is opinion that almost anybody can afford to test for themselves! Bottom line: If you want to try vinyl, get ANY decently constructed TT in as little use condition as possible and with a good name cartridge/stylus in known condition (replace the stylus if there is ANY doubt), and you will either be happy, or you will then know what you need to get that way. Yours in good audiophun, Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless

1357999195 A Denon currently a 103.52 with about 6 hours to go. Described as lightly used, but no mention of cartridge type. These were highly regarded and well made. 1358028508 A linear tracking Technics described as near-mint. 49.00 with 8 hours left. I suspect many are staying away because they don't know what it is. Remember the discussion of the RABCO arm Sunday? Definitely a good conversion piece, but I never heard one. 1358558322 Another Denon. Looks nice. 1357390999 This could turn out to be a bargain even with shipping from UK. These are really nice, and the UK location will keep the bidding down. Don't know why...parcel services operate from there just fine. 1358000253 Including this one because at the current bid of 20.00 it is definitely a bargain. The Shure M91ED is still used by a lot of vinyl heads. Pluse, if you upgrade, you can get a 78 stylus for the Shure and the 1229 has 78 speed. Nice upgrade path... I only went for the first couple of pages listed "Ending First," and picked at the things I liked. Since I need to stay up for my own future acquisition, I'll try to email you any good things I see. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless

My current TT is a Sony P-4300 with an Audio-Technica cartridge that I cannot identify. I don't care for it for a variety of reasons...but at 25.00 it was something of a bargain. The AT came with my Ebay Empire. Much prefer my Grado, but still haven't replaced stylus my daughter whacked. I have a Pioneer PL-610 in the garage you are welcome to borrow indefinitely to try cartridges or whatever. It is at least as good as the P-4300, though on rare occasions it loses it's quartz lock and wows. Turning it on and off relocks it. Really doesn't happen often...probably only when audiophiles are visiting:-). I'll be getting my next TT from Ebay. I think your attitude is the healthy one. As you saw in my stacks, there is over a 100 years of phono source material. As I've stated, I believe that digital sources can provide a musical experience equal to that of phono...but only at a price many of us cannot afford. Further, those in the digital only camp will never have the experience of hearing a jewel like Bill's Verve Louis and Ella disc. Why be locked out of 90% of the available music for the lack of a few hundred bucks? Espcially when the average LP goes for 4 bucks, sometimes FREE! I don't care how the music gets here, as long as it does! Will try to take a look at the Ebay pages in a while. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless

I am sure his equipment varied over the years. At the time of my visit in c. 1972, he had Saul Marantz VT amps. They were, of course, built by Saul himself and very, very beautiful to look at. The source he used that day was an Ampex 450 console RR playing a half-track recording at 15ips of the E. Power Biggs/Ormandy/Philadelphia recording of the Saint Saens "Organ" Symphony. Imprinted in my mind forever! Don't know how he obtained the RR...definitely not a transfer from disk. At this time, he had a Cornwall in the center. I think his listening area moved a bit from time to time as well. Another forum member has described a much smaller listening area than I recall at about the same time. One thing that apparently remained the same most of the years was his use of a little Frazier Super Midget speaker with a handle attached to demonstrate the effect of corner placement. Very effectively, too. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless

Randy: In my 1500 or so LP's, I don't recall a single one that isn't black. I know quite a few of other colors were issued, but they are few and far between. Actually, seems I recall an article years ago suggesting that the lack of pure carbon in colored LPs produced wear problems due to poor lubrication. In any case, colored LPs are for collectors of same. If you read my post closely, I did emphasize that EVERYTHING about this device hinges on the sound. If it don't sound worth a damn, then I can save my LP's just as well by not playing them at all. Though outside my range, 6k is just about into the golden ear/golden pocketbook range for a rig. I believe that the price would come down substantially if the thing performs and sells. ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless

At 300.00, you will definitely be getting MM. MC cartridges start MUCH higher. I consider them a fetish for those with lots of money. I don't know of any MC cartridges with user-replaceable styli. As you will recall, I've three cartridges with children-destroyed styli, so that could get painful. Even a middle of the line MM will provide superb LP reproduction. Your Fisher will definitely be set for MM. It would be useful to know the capacitance for matching purposes, but this is also something of a tweak and most MM carts/phono imputs were pretty close to standardized in the mid-range prices. I'd give a strong recommendation to haunting Ebay for a TT/cartridge. I've seen TT combos going for a few hundred dollars that cost up to 10 times that new. Of course, there is some risk, but if you study the seller ratings closely and they offer a return policy, you can do very, very well. I intend to do just that. BTW, I got my Empire 598 Mark II that way. As I've never yet found anyone who could explain the micro adjustments on it, I've dedicated it to 78 use...but it makes one helluva 78 spinner! Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless

Duty, honor, integrity, love, all these are more important than grades. I had lousy grades in high school, and barely stayed in my first few years. A professor finally clued me in to the simple secret: 1. NEVER miss a class 2. Do EXACTLY what the professor says, nothing more, nothing less. Applying rule 1 guarantees graduation. Add rule 2 if you want honors. Within a year, I was cruising at 4.00, without even feeling a sense of strain. Had one B on my graduate degree from a really clueless grad teaching fellow who to a dislike to me. But here is what I think is REALLY important: Friends and family. Everything else is pretty much BS. Life can be short and brutal. Get and give all the love you can. Immerse in music...and SHARE it with family and friends. If you develop a sense of love, honor, duty, integrity, your grades will be fine. Without those things, your grades are meaningless and so is your life. I am 52, have a 6 month old baby boy who is the light of my life, a gorgeous 4 year old girl makes me smile the moment she enters the room, and a wife who gave up the bedroom to my Klipschorns. I am the richest man alive! I might add that this thread is absolute proof of the civilized and wondrous folks who make up audiophileland, and the Klipsch denomination in particular. Lots of varied opinion, all with good faith attached. Love it! Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless

Fascinating, and I agree with most of it. SACD and DVD-A address some of the issues in this paper. However, the most important statement is not technical at all: "Unfortunately, that is almost universally the case, as most sound-systems are not capable of resolving enough detail to reproduce the musical experience contained in the original performance." True then, true now. Audiophiles with their finally tuned, highly engineered, high resolution systems are almost non-existent. The vast majority could care less, and will simply doze off if you attempt to tell them the dominant music distribution system and its billions in revenue is a straw man. This Anstendig outfit is also pretty strange. The stereo paper is, well, a bit over the top. While the logic is stream is fairly well constructed, it seems to suggest that stereo recording is an attempt to absolutely recreate the original space. I do not do that. I use two mics, and try to get a PLEASING sense of space that enlivens the listening experience. I certainly enjoy mono recordings, and have several hundred. However, I would REALLY miss the dimensional acoustics of St. Marks on the Biggs/Boys Choir/Tarr recording, and many other such experiences available to the listener. Nonetheless, I think I will read their other papers. Might learn something. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless

Interestingly, a friend of mine just dropped by with a Dyna SCA-35 integrated VT amp he picked up quite a few years ago. We hooked it to the Khorns, let it set a while, and cranked it up. Hum inaudible, other noise present but neglible. At 17.5/channel, it is ample to drive the horns big time, though perhaps not to lease breaking levels. The big bass drum hits in the Fennel/Cleveland Winds Telarc disc definitely clipped, but in the gentle way only tubes can. I had a SCA-35 for most of the 70's matched with my Frazier Monte Carlos (96db/watt) and it was this sound that eventually brought me to tubes and Klipsch. Actually, the Dyna was an upgrade from a Grommes "Little Jewel" with 8 watts (if I recall correctly) per channel. It was also integrated and sounded great. Integrated VT amps can sound superb. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless

I've opened a dialogue with the marketing manager of the Laser turntable ELP. I do not know whether it will go anywhere, but from living for years in the orient I can bet it will take at least a year to know. The potential of a laser turntable is tremendous from a marketing standpoint. With sufficient volume I see no reason for them not to be profitable at a 1000.00, and while the LP is never going to represent a significant market share compared to digital, I don't think even 30,000 or so potential buyers is something to sneeze at. However, I've no idea what they SOUND like. If the sound sux, nobody is going to care that you are not damaging your records. Anyway, the potential for getting all the music that is on an LP off it lies with this technology. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless

Fascinating. Bill Barista builds his stuff and suggests that clean phono stages shouldn't cost much more than that. (Wrote the above about 4 hours ago, then went to put some albums away, and the next thing I knew I'd been through about 4 albums and 20 78's) I've an Audio Alchemy Vac in the Box I think I paid around a hundred for that probably has about the same parts in it as the RS. Sounds good. I use it exclusively for 78's these days, and send my LP's through the excellent phono stage in my Van Alstine Super PAS4i. My opinion is that you'd have to pay at least the price of the PAS4i just to get a standalone phono stage as good...and the rest of the preamp is free. I've a basic Nitty Gritty, but I use it mainly just for drying. I use the weak dish detergent solution with a baby washcloth for really dirty disks, then vacuum them with the NG. Never found a disc cleaning solution that really seemed worth the money. Ruined a number of discs with old DiscWasher fluid before learning that the stuff breaks down into something really horrible after a year or two. Rambling again... Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: 21rst Century

So what is the RS Little Wonder? Inquiring needle heads want to know. I can tell you that you never can tell for sure either by lineage or by look what is going to sound great in phono. I have 180 gram audiophile pressings that seem uncleanable even though I bought them new and hardly played them, and just on my last trip to Half-Price I bought an early 60's Audio Spectrum disk that weighs hardly an ounce (Dynawarp?) of big band music...and it is awesome. Listening to it even as I type. The proof is in the playing! The same trip, I picked up a Jan and Dean Direct Master from 1980 (Surf's Up thread has details) for which I also had little hope. Unbelieveable. Like being in the studio. Perhaps the thrill of discovery is part of the phono phun. I might also add I'm a DBX (I've a 117 and a 128) user since 1975, and play only a few discs without the benefit of this marvelous little device. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: 21rst Century

I spent a lot of time, starting in the Army, in Asia. The knock-off's there were uniformly horrible. That is were my fears come from. I found it hard to believe either that such a company could afford all the royalities and/or arrange for same. That record looked at least 20 years old and had no sign of copyright notices. The presence of the Beatles on it, who I did not think had released any of their material that far back, as well as my memories of crappy Asian knockoffs, sort of sent me negative. Oh well, you never know. Might get by there and see if it's still around on Saturday. There was not exactly a crowd hanging around the vinyl, and maybe some new stuff will have shown up. Also just listened to a Columbia "Dukes of Dixieland" album called "Breakin it up on Broadway" acquired on the same trip. Needs a bath which I hope will reduce the nasty ticks and pops, but otherwise really fine recording of great liveness and presence. I've a couple of others elsewhere on, I think, Audio Spectrum, but I didn't know they cut for Columbia. Damn treat for 2.00. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: 21rst Century

Gee, thanks HDBR. I feel SO much better already. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: 21rst Century