henry4841

You and I are alike in this, me to. The old saying of audiophiles listen to equipment and musicians listen to music rings true. I am happy now just listening to 320 mp3's as my record and CD collection.

I have built and heard many amplifiers and trust me the difference between them has narrowed considerable from years ago. Last count I have 24 working amplifiers not counting all the linestages and other audio gear I have built. Differences are subtle between the top products except when it comes to single ended and push pull circuits. Big difference between the sound of SE vs PP that most will quickly realize. My preference is SE but I love the sound of a good PP one as well.

I can turn it around and say to the naysayers to buy that serious $350 piece on Ebay and prove Nelson and Wayne wrong. A good signal generator cost way more than $350.

Instruments are only a tool. They are only as good as the person using them. There are many times that what should sound excellent according to the instruments will not be that great sounding. You hearing is the final judge. For instance most if not all SET amplifier will test poorly on the bench but they have some of the best sound you are ever going to hear. Only with years of experience with sound equipment and test instruments will a person truly understand how to interpret what you see on any piece of test equipment. People that I admire tremendously such as Nelson Pass', considered the best of the best when it comes to audio design and Wayne Colburn among others say that electronics do sound better after having some hours of break in. Reviewers like 6moons do not do any serious review of one of Pass Labs pieces till they have many hours on them. They claim it takes hours on the machine before they sound their best. Nelson is in a class all by himself who most consider the best of the best and he does not even have an electronic degree. He majored in physics with electronics being just a hobby in college. I am smart enough not to question what they say to be true. But on social media sites we have smarter people than them who can say differently. Members are free to choose what to believe. I can turn it around and say to the naysayers to buy that serious $350 piece on Ebay and prove Nelson and Wayne wrong.

And who exactly has such a piece of equipment? Are you talking about a Spectrometer? Just curious since you keep on bringing it up. Most of the audio engineers that I am aware of just use distortion analyzer's, scopes and signal generators for audio work. Some may even have spectrum analyzers but that it taking it to the extreme that most do not feel the need for on work in the audio spectrum. I do not even know where to find such a piece of equipment you keep bringing up and I am sure the price would be extreme to buy or even for a lab to do such a test. Especially since it would require hours of work for a conclusion. Why not just say you are not a believer and leave it at that.

Just as the debate over LP vs CD is never settled this subject will never be proved definitely one way or the other because it is subjective to a large extent. All I really know is that guys that are way smarter than me, audio engineers that make their living developing audio products, says it does with certain components. I can understand how a big woofers suspension would need to loosen up some for best performance but for many years I had my doubts about electronics needing some hours on them to sound best. I am now under the impression that electronics will improve after settling in after some hours, days from first turn on. No proof and other than the couple of class D amplifiers that had weak bass on turn on and after a few minutes some of the best bass I have ever heard. I actually heard this improvement. Other than those two instances my hearing is not good enough to notice any difference from first use to many hours. But then as said my hearing is not the best and also one must be trained to learn what to listen for. Trained hearing is often not discussed when talking about this subject. And yes as one must be trained to know what to listen for to be a good artist on an instrument one must also be trained to know what to listen for when evaluating electronic reproducing products. I found some audio engineers I really like who say their products will sound best after being left on for 24 hours and I certainly am not one to say they are wrong. I do not know why they would say this if not true. I do know for sure that it takes some time for electronic circuits to settle down, bias and dc offset can vary a lot with temp and will be more stable after some time being on. Can I hear the difference, no. I can hear a difference in a class A amp before it reaches it's best operating temp but that is expected in class A. Knowing who to trust means a lot when discussing this subject.

Nothing like horn loaded bass. The bass the LS makes is fantastic. LS also has bigger mid horn. The bigger the horn the better the sound is what I have found over decades of playing with sound. The cannon fire from the Tchaikovsky 1812 Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra will make you jump out of your chair if you have the system turned up too loud. One will have to experience it to understand.

Have mine on a reciever in the bedroom and in the kitchen as well. Good enough for background music. When I get serious though it is my LaScala's I listen with.

Live sounding is a term commonly used. Go to most any concert and what you will see is lots of horns. We on this forum are horny guys and proud of it. 🙂

I was guilty of that myself when I was younger. Spec believer. You deserve it to yourself to hear a pair one day if you truly love music. Horns are not everyone's cup of tea, I will say that much but it is what turns me on.

And for what they cost they sound really good. Have 2 pair myself.

I still have my Bose 901's bought before LaScala's. To be fair if you stick 200 watts per channel behind those 901's they make great bass. No comparison Bose to horns though. Never seriously considered any more main speakers after LaScala purchase.

Crazy sounding is it not but until you have heard horn loaded bass you will never understand. The bass it makes equals the quickness and dynamics of a cymbal. True it does not go as low as I would like but unless you want to spend more for the K-horn with an extra fold you just bite the bullet and buy a dedicated low note producer, sub, for notes below 50hz. When I bought my LaScala's they were half the price of the K-horns but way back then they were not furniture grade as they are now. I've suggested to Roy to reintroduce the old looking birch plywood LaScala to close the price gap between the Cornwall and LaScala. We have to wait and see if Klipsch thinks the idea profitable.

I do not know where the BS statement of needing minimum 120watts comes from. I have heard others say much the same from Klipsch support. Klipsch speakers are perfect for Nelson Pass' Firstwatt amplifiers generating the average 15 to 25 watts period. Take a 1 watt SET amplifier and turn it wide open and you will not hurt the speaker. You may not be able to stay in the room because of volume but certainly no harm will occur. When a 10 watt SS amp clips you will cringe much as when fingernails on a blackboard making you turn it down below clipping. Klipsch speakers are perfect for any amplifier being produced whether 1 watt or 250watts per channel.

Meant to be in PM Rich. Somehow got posted here as well. Glitch in software system I assume but you should have my PM.

I saw that this morning. The F8 is a classic with those extinct SemiSouth power J-fets. The thing is with any Nelson Pass product you can rest assure it is going to be ticking long after most amplifiers have seen the trash pile.

The F8 is now discontinued but RenoHifi has some still left in stock. Actually have one demo in stock for really good price. Highly rated with power J-fets. From Firstwatts website. 2/5/23 FW Product availability: As we run low on the SemiSouth SiC Jfets and SITs without replacements, we are discontinuing the F8 and SIT-3. F7 is still available, and new product is under development.

This little great sounding amplifier found a new home. Gave it to my 2nd son who is moving away for a going away present. Hooked it up to my shop 85db speakers just to show him what 1 watt will do. Sound really good and plenty loud enough for most even with 85db speakers. After that I hooked the little amp to my LaScala speakers and let him and my soon to graduate from college grandson who could not believe how clean and loud the little amp can play. Never ran out of power even when pushed way further than need be, hurt your hearing. Talked him into buying some Klipsch speakers to go with his new amplifier as well. Has anyone built this design, Little Sweetie, by our resident designer Maynard? I guarantee it will sound better than the overhyped Decware Zen for $1200 with an 18 month waiting period. I hope all the effort me and others took to create the "Little Sweetie Forum Amplifier Project" was not in vain.

I changed my opinion on SS gear sound better with some breaking in just a few years ago. Before then I would say sand devices sound the same from the first day but after building 50 or more audio electronic devices I can say it really does happen just as with tubes. How and what changes, I honestly do not know, it is only what I perceive to hear. That and talented audio engineers say it does as well. Granted it is subtle differences most of the time except the times bass greatly improved on two class D amplifier projects I built. Guys when I first listened to them after building the bass was just not there. After a few minutes being on they both have some of the best bass I have ever heard. Dramatical difference anyone should notice. I decided then there may be some truth in breaking in SS gear. I think the designers that say their equipment sounds best after being on for 24 hours might know what they are talking about because there is a lot of drift of components as they heat up from running current through them. Anyone that has the set the bias on an a SS amplifier knows and understands this. Just taking the cover off makes the bias and also the DC offset drift some. I must assume after 24 hours all components have settled down to the proper operating temperature delivering better sound. At my age with diminished hearing I probably cannot tell the difference but I understand there are those with remarkable hearing that might so I cannot question the statement of best to be left on all the time. Certainly any class A SS amp will sound better after 30 minutes to an hour of being on. I can hear that difference in my many SS class A amplifiers. Amps sound best after the temperature stabilizes for sure. Mostly true for class A being that A/B amps transistors are being turned up and down depending on the music so the temp never actually stabilizes for optimized performance in the output devices.

Just for reference the resistors spoken of in the circuit are only .5ohm. Remarkable hearing that guy that Nelson used. He would build two same looking amplifiers, same looking case, with one with resistors and the other without and put them in the trunk of the guys car to take home. After a few weeks he would give his opinion on which sounds best or the same to him. He chose the one without the degenerating .5ohm resistors as sounding better. Those with audio electronic background will understand which resistors I am talking about. Nelson even ran a test with the same amplifier in the two cases to test his ability. He came back a few weeks later with the amps and said he could not tell a difference between the two. He has since passed but Nelson has said he trained his other staff on what to listen for on the Pass-Labs & Firstwatt listening panel.

Those NOS Russian tubes were a deal a few years back. The Russians continued to use tubes long after most countries switched over to sand devices. KT-88 enlightened me on which factory made the best tubes. Still a deal over NOS European or USA made ones.

Class A SS amplifiers with definitely sound better when they reach the correct operating temperature. In general terms the harder, hotter, you run a transistor the better it will sound. That is until it destroys itself. There was once a designer that built an amplifier and said it sounded better than anything he had heard before. That is for 10 minutes. 🙂

When a tube gets gassy it is no longer any good. A new tube releases gasses from the manufacturing process so possible the statement of tubes sounding better comes from those that have done the research after the excess gas has been removed by the getter after 100 hours. I have never seen the statement of sounding best after 100 hours questioned on technical forums from people that really truly understand and design electronic circuits. Perhaps you know better than the electronic engineers on the technical forums I belong and participate on. Not knowing your qualifications I must say you may be right and what I believed is wrong.

There are those that do have remarkable hearing that actually can tell when certain resistors are in the circuit or not in A/B test. Nelson Pass had a member of his listening panel that could. The resistors in question are in a PP amplifier circuit to better match the two transistors. Nelson found some could tell better sound removing those resistors when the pair of mosfets where perfectly matched.

As I said previously I have never thought or have the desire to try and prove what others say on technical forums about tubes needing 100 hours to break in, sounding best. Just as you do not have proof of not getting better to support your hypothesis of no change before 100 hours. I am sure it is just subjective to those that think they observe better sound after 100 hours. In the long run, what difference does it make whether they do or don't. You do not seem to understand from previous post the function of the getter with the statement on gas. One can believe what they want. I was just repeating what techs and electronic designers I respect have said.