Doug C

I've had the Zen Select now for 6-months and this little amp has turned my thinking around 180 degrees. I'm currently using it in my main system. The room is 12'x 21' with 8' ceiling. I should mention that there are two openings into other large areas of the home. The Select drives a pair of Klipsch RF-5's and the sound is wonderful. I typically listen to music in the 88-92 dB range for extended periods which is pretty loud and the Select has no difficulty at all. If you want this level of volume you need 98 dB or better in your speaker efficiency. The little amp like most tube amps is a little soft on the bass (sub required). I have a pair of SVS Ultra subs so lack of bass is a non-issue for me. I auditioned the Select with a pair of RF-3's at a local Klipsch dealer and this is a wonderful budget pair of speakers for the Decware amp. The RF-3 does not give up much to the RF-5 considering the savings. I broke down and am upgrading to the RF-7, they should arrive within the next week or so. Have been watching the positive comparisons posted on the RF-7 over the RF-5. The extra 3 dB sensitivity of the RF-7 will have the same effect as doubling my amp power also. If you have a sub the Klipsch Reference line is a wonderful match for this amp. It is true this amp takes a long time to break-in and really sound it's best. Average speakers mated to this amp may sound less than impressive. I tried a pair of Infinity Overture 3's and they did nothing for the amp. Hooking up the RF-5's however was a real treat. Just for comparison I put my Musical Fidelity A3CR (120 watt/channel) SS amp back in the system for a couple of days. This is a really fine amp but after being used to the Select it just did not have the detail and large open sound stage. Boy was I glad to get the Select back into the system. This amp also does a great job with HT. Doug C

Receivers are nice if you want something easy to set-up and operate. Not everyone is into all the cables and big equipment racks that you tend to end up with when going to separates. Having said that, I have separates. Separates give you a multitude of hook-up options that a guy like me loves. Others may consider the flexability I love just too complicated however? If you are a critical listener, the right separates will provide better sound (just my opinion). My local Klipsch dealer has all his demo speakers hooked up to receivers. Honestly I never would have purchased Klipsch if it had not been for the fact that I brought my own CD player and tube amp in for a demo. I run a pair of RF-5's with a 2 watt/channel Decware tube amp and the sound is great with no lack of volume. The tube amp is a little shy on the bass but since I have twin SVS Ultra subs that does not matter. I'm upgrading to the RF-7's which should be in in a couple weeks. Doug C

I've had the B&K Ref. 30 for over a year now. A very nice unit at a great price when I purchased it. No problems with the unit and a multitude of useful features. The manual sucks! Just a couple of days ago I finally figured out how to use one of the units features (after a year of trying). The manual does little but cover the basic features. Home Theater Magazine I think it was rated the Ref. 30 highly but blasted the manual (this was about a year ago). B&K told them in the article that they would upgrade the manual. Well that never happened (the old manual is still on their website). In the begining I sent 5 or 6 emails to Tech. Support trying to get clarification on some features but no response. It's really a shame because B&K makes fine equipment. At the time I purchased mine the Ref. 30 really had a price advantage over the Anthem. If I were looking at two units with similar features and price I might not buy B&K today? I have however been very happy with the performance and reliability of the Ref. 30. One feature that I think is an absolute must is the Notch Filter. Just about every room has some low frequency room induced peak that tends to make bass (most noticable on music) boomy. Being able to notch that peak out is a huge improvement. Good Luck! Doug C

I've got the RF-5's and a pair of the SVS ultras and this is a great match. My budget just would not allow RF-7's at the time. My dealer is good about trade-ins so I might upgrade when the budget permits? I run my RF-5's full range with the SVS. My Decware tube amp only puts out 2 watts/channel but I listen at 85-90db routinely with no problems. Room is 12'wide, 16' long, 8' high. Doug C.

I've had My RF-5's for over a month now and would swear they got quite a bit smoother on the high end over the first couple of weeks? Initially I noticed that on some CD's I had to limit the volume due to ear piercing highs. Now I seem to be able to play these same few CD's at about any volume. As others suggest, it could just be my brain getting used to the speakers? In any event just play the music you like and decide for youself. Doug C

Andy, I might not have been clear, when listening to music on my main HT system it is all 2-channel listening. There just has not been anything with multi-channel music that has peaked my interest. I do have a number of concert DVD's and to my ear they all sound better when listening to the 2-channel sound track as opposed to the multi-channel track. I have no idea how multi-track DVD compares to multi-track Audio formats? Doug C

Andy, I've had the Decware Zen for a couple of months now, my first experience with tubes. This seemed like an inexpensive way to get some tube sound. I set up a 2-channel only system in a spare bedroom (12'W, 16'L, 8'H). I have a Marantz CD17 connected directly to the Zen which is connected to a pair of Klipsch RF-5's. A Velodyne sub is connected via speaker level connections. In this room the little Zen can chug along at an honest 90-95db with the volume control at approximately 90% (Loud enough for 99% of my listening). Most of the time I listen in the 85db range. If I just want to beat myself silly then I go to my HT setup with 300 watts/channel. My HT system is used primairly for music listening so over the past 5 years most of my purchases have been slanted towards music. I have to say since purchasing the Zen I have listened to very little music on the HT system. The Zen Klipsch combo just has great detail and dynamics that keep me coming back for more. CD's that are boring on my HT system are a joy to listen to on the Zen/Klipsch combo. For me it's really nice to have two systems in the same house. Both sound great yet very different. If I could only keep one system I have to admit It would probably be the Zen/Klipsch combo which by the way cost a fraction of what I have in the HT system. Steve at Decware is very up-front about stating that the Zen was never designed to crank out ear bleeding volumes in larger rooms. I am however amazed at the volume levels that can be achieved when mated with high efficency speakers. Doug C.

I've had the Ultra's for a year now. Just remember that lots of rooms have different characteristics when it comes to low bass. It's true that if you colocate the subs you will get the greatest overall bass output. In my case this did not do much good because the subs excite a +16db room induced peak around 38hz. Could only set sub volume to about 25% before things got noticably boomy (no fault of the sub, it's a room problem). The result was boomy around 38hz and the rest of the bass range was weak. I have one sub located in each front corner now. The peak at 38hz is reduced and have been able to increase the subs volume control to about 50% (much better across the whole bass range). So try as many different sub placements as your room permits and let your ears be the judge. Have Fun! Doug C

cdsang I don't know why 80 watts/channel would not be more than enough in the average size room. I think the SF-2's are listed at a sensitivity of 96dB and the RF-3's at 98dB. Speakers in this efficiency range don't require much power to play loud! I have a pair of RF-5's (99dB sensitivity) in a 12'x16' room driven with a 2 watt/channel tube amp (that's right 2 watts). I like to listen at high volume on a regular basis and have never maxed out that little tube amp. With a high effiency speaker like Klipsch go for amp quality and don't worry that much about big watts. Doug C

JasN00b I have two systems in two separate rooms, one HT and one 2-channel only. As you see there is a lot of debate with regard to cables and speaker break-in. When it comes to cables I don't use real cheap ones and I don't use real expensive ones either. I have never been able to find a night and day difference between different interconnects of good quality. Yea, maybe I think I hear a slight difference but that could be my imagination to? A couple years back I switched from zip cord to a brand name speaker cable and was convinced I could hear a difference. Some day I will have to go back and A/B some different speaker cables to see if that was just my imagination also? To my ear a pair of Klipsch RF-5 speakers purchased really improved over the first 100 hours of play. Again, it might just be my mind getting used to the Klipsch sound? Others here have a good point, if cables and break-in make that much of a difference there should some proof of it. Well there's not any so my best advice is to listen for yourself. I never buy interconnects or cables without the option to return them. The couple of links below, one from Paradigm and one from B&W talk about their views of speaker break-in and speaker wires. Again no real proof offered, just their views. http://www.paradigm.com/Support/TechFAQ/TechFAQ.html#Question16 http://www.bwspeakers.com/service/faq/article_details.cfm?objectID=F5CA2780-3D20-11D4-A67F00D0B7473B37

On your point about the possibility of a second sub, this is not a silly idea. It takes lots of sub to get the type of low end impact you describe. This takes lots of power and piston volume (especially if you have large openings to other parts of the house in your listening room. Sounds to me like your low end (sub) is running out of steam as you increase volume (mids & highs increase as you increase volume but the low end volume is not increasing at the same rate). The result at high volumes is that mids and highs are emphasized and the sound is out of balance (tilted towards the mids and highs). I use twin subs in my system very effectively. Doug C

denag, Your points regarding auditioning equipment are dead on. Fortunately for me when it comes to speakers I have been lucky enough to get better sound in my room as compared to a dealers room in all but one case. This probably has to do with flexability in speaker placement (I generally place my speakers where they sound best, if something is in the way it gets moved). You are right, the RF-5's are a step up from the RF-3's. My point which may not have been clear was that if your budget is limited to $600-$700 the RF-3's are great speakers. My circumstances were such that with trade-in of my old speakers and a discount on floor model RF-5's the 5's fit my budget and I could'nt be happier. An interesting note, I was never able to get my 18" Velodyne to integrate seamlessly with my old pair of Infinity Overture 3's. Well I hooked the Velodyne up with the Klipsch tonight and the combo is great! Hard to understand why such a big difference? I am very happy to be a member the Klipsch family! To bad I never considered Klipsch before. Doug C

OK I broke down and purchased the RF-5's to go with a 2 watt/channel Decware Zen Select tube amp. This is a separate 2-channel only system I have setup in a spare bedroom. My budget was limited to that of the RF-3II's. I was able to trade my old speakers for RF-5 floor models for about the same price as new RF-3II's are going for on the internet. My comparison of the 3II's and 5's are at the link below if interested. http://216.37.9.58/cgi-bin/ubb/postdisplay.cgi?forum=Forum3&topic=001464 My primary goal was to find reasonably priced high effiency speakers to mate well with the low power Zen Select. I had been playing the Select with a pair of Infinity Overture 3 floorstanders. The Overture 3's did not provide much depth or width to the soundstage. The speakers never really dissapeared and the bass did'nt seemed to integrate well. These speakers did have great midrange detail however. I've only had the RF-5's three days now and have been playing them around the clock for a little break-in. Although these were floor models the dealer claimed they only had about 5 hours on them. In my 12'x16' room I have total freedom of placement. As expected the best soundstage is with the speakers about 3' from the front wall and 2' from the side walls. These speakers really disappear, creating lots of depth and width to the soundstage. The RF-5's don't have quite the midrange detail of the Overture 3's, but the dynamics of the 5's are superior in comparison. The bass is very controlled, not a hint of boom even with speakers placed close to the corners. If you like reference levels of bass (like the three subs in my main system) then you will probably want to consider a sub. The fact that my amp has only a 2 watt output is probably a factor for bass. I'll have to try one of my SS amps on these speakers to compare bass output. These speakers mate well with the 2 watt Zen amp and provide more volume in moderate sized rooms then most will ever need. I have yet to come close to maxing the little Zen out. In my opinion the RF-5's do a good job on all types of music. Great on rock and above average on softer rock and acoustic. I would not have paid the going price for the RF-5's because of the RF-3's price/performance. I think the 5's are better but not enough to justify the fairly large price increase over the 3's. Doug C

OK Jalen, Spent time today with my Marantz CD17 and Zen Select (2 watts/channel) listening to both the RF-3 & RF-5. Listening room setup was not necessarily idea but was reasonable. I usually have my speakers farther out from the wall with no big equipment racks between them as was the case today. I should also mention that the listening room was at least 3 times larger than my 12"x16' listening room at home. First thing I noticed was I had the volume control at about 75% to reach the same listening levels as at home in my room. With my Overture 3's at home I have been running the volume control at about 90% for high volume listening (averaging around 85-90dB). The sound level output capability of the RF-3 & RF-5 with the Zen was quite impressive given the dealers room was 3 times the size of mine. I don't think anyone would be lacking for volume with the single Zen and Klipsch combo in an average sized room. The deepest bass was very satisfying though a little shy of what I get in my smaller room with the Infinity Overture 3's (remember the Overture 3's have 300 watt powered woofers). I think this can be easily explained though given the much larger room that the Klipsch were in. I'm pretty sure that in my smaller room I would not feel the need at all for a sub on two-channel music. I don't know how a 2 watt amp can drive two 8 inch woofers to the levels I heard today? The bass had plenty of smack and slam. Comparing the RF-3 and RF-5 the biggest difference is in the midrange. Some time back I read a review of the RF-3 stating that there was not a completely seamless transition between the low and high frequency drivers in the midrange and I was able to hear this on material with a lot of male vocals. It is not a glaring problem and you have to listen carefully to the right kind of material to recognize it. The RF-5 had a slightly more open soundstage and did not exibit the minor midrange problem noted with the RF-3 (may be because of the RF-5's higher crossover frequency). On some gear & speaker combos when you play loud they can be very sharp on vocals and or higher electric guitar notes. I actually found the highs on the RF-3 & RF-5 smoother than on my Overture 3's. The RF-5 was a tad bit smoother than the RF-3. Both the RF-3 & RF-5 seem to disapear (very seldom do you get the sense that music is coming directly from the speaker) although the RF-5 may have a slight advantage in this regard. My Overture 3's sound pretty good but they do call attention to themselves frequently which detracts from the realism of the music. Both the RF-3 & RF-5 lack slightly in the detail department compared to the Overture 3's. The Overture 3's provide a little more high end detail which is nice at moderate volume but this can also be a bit fatiguing at high volumes. So as always it's all about personal taste and comprimises. If you want to use very low powered amps like the Zen, get good clarity & detail, have the ability to play it loud and a great price then I don't know how you could beat the RF-3 performance/price ratio. The RF-5 does offer an improvement in overall performance. For the very picky listener still looking for a good performance/price ratio the added cost of the RF-5 is probably worth it. If your budget dictates the RF-3 don't worry you won't be completely missing the boat by any means by not purchasing the RF-5. Now if I had a tube amp with 10-20 watts I would be looking at lots of other lower efficiency speakers in addition to the Klipsch. But these speakers do crank it out with very low power and they do it with authority. If you listen primiarly to accoustic, strings, woods and vocals at only moderate volumes there are probably other better choices (better in total overall clarity & detail). But if you also want to be able to really rock from time to time these speakers seem to be a very good comprimise. Doug C

Jalen I like the Decware amp. There is something very captivating about all the detail it is able to reproduce. The Infinity Overture 3 speakers get plenty loud with the 2 watts the Decware outputs but the sound to me is a bit one dimensional compared to other speakers I have heard. I'll be stopping by a local Klipsch dealer with my Decware amp today and give a listen to the Decware / RF3II combo. Doug C

Craig, Thanks for the response. In my main system I use Paradigm Studio 100's driven with SS gear and twin SVS Ultra subs. This setup will go to insane volumes and is great for Rock. My tube amp and gear is set up in a separate room (12'x16'). Currently using a Marantz CD17 directly into the tube amp and Infinity Overture 3 speakers (94dB sensitivity). I have a bunch of CD's that I would not classify as Rock (acustic, lots of vocals, less dynamic material compared to Rock) which are not all that interesting on my main system. The tube amp gives all these more delicate recordings real life. Sounds like your online experience was a good one. Would you mind sharing where you ordered these? Thanks, Doug C

NOS440 I have a Decware Zen (2 watts/channel) and have been thinking about the RF-3II's or Heresy's. Was courious how you would compare the two? How much power does your amp have? You indicate the RF-3's make a big difference, in what way and compared to what speakers? Which speaker seems to provide the greatest volume output for a given power input? I'm looking for a fair balance between speaker efficiency and sound quality given that my amp only has 2 watts. My current speakers are 94dB sensitivity and I would like to go with something offering a bit more efficency such as the RF-3 or Heresy. Any input you could provide would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Doug C

The problem with Klipsch speakers that are out of production is finding a pair to listen to. My business requires that I travel frequently and I really don't have the motivation to be scanning Ebay and other sites looking for deals on used speakers. I do however appreciate the pointers on used equipment. Maybe I'll have to change my approach with regard to used speakers? There seem to be two camps here, those that really like vintage Klipsch and those that like the new Reference product. Anyone have experience with low power tube amps and the Reference line? Does the Reference line really meet published sensitivity? There seems to be some debate here? How about comments from anyone with experience with both the Reference line and vintage Klipsch speakers? Thanks Doug C

Thanks for your response Edster, I listen to a wide range of music (Rock, Metal, Country, Acoustic). I have my Zen Select connected to a spare Marantz CD17 and spare Infinity Overture 3 powered towers (94dB sensitivity). Since I had the CD player and Speakers anyway this was a somewhat inexpensive way to experiment with tubes. Rock and Metal sound great on my main HT system in a much larger room using Paradigm Studio 100's and twin SVS Ultra subs. I have found after listening to the Zen however that my main system just does not do acoustic and vocals justice on more delicate recordings. Many of my CD's which got very little play on my main system really come to life on the Zen. Satisfying volume for me in the 12'x16' room is 85-90dB which the Overture 3's seem to provide comfortably without clipping the Zen. Was looking for a speaker with even better efficency to get a bit more headroom while at the same time improving the overall sound. The Overture 3's don't have the most open sound. I have no experience with horn speakers but as you state many claim horns and tubes are good. I am trying to limit my speaker budget to around 1K. Your input is appreciated. Doug C

Anyone have any experience with the Zen or other low power amps mated with the Klipsch Heresy II speaker? My room is 12'x16' and I'm using a single Zen Select. Comments regarding the potential of this combo would be appreciated.